Hi All,
First up - I've never ever come close to having something like the Kronos - and I'm finding it more than a little overwhelming. Previously, I've run a Yamaha Tyros with a second layer via MIDI - and they've been my mainstay in live performance.
Now, I know I'm not necessarily using the Kronos "right" yet - but I have a usage case which works well for me so far. Please bear with me if I get the terminology wrong.
I have setup a combi - the first 4 'slots' are piano, el piano and some strings / pads. I control the balance of these "on the fly" with the first 4 faders - which is fine. These 4 'slots' are all set to Global Midi Ch1.
In the same combo, I have 4 different organs set to 'slots' 5-8. Each of these 'slots' are set to MIDI Ch5. My MIDI controller is set to Ch5 too - and I can play / balance the 4 organ sounds (played by the controller) with faders 5-8.
Here's where it gets tricky - the MIDI controller has 4 knobs which send MIDI CC. I looked on the Kronos screen to see what the CC# was for faders 5-8, and programmed these to the controller's knobs; along with the MIDI channel to 5. Didn't work.
So I read on here (I've done a fair bit of digging) and apparently CC#007 is the one I need. But this doesn't do the job either. By the looks of things, I have to set the 'slots' in the combo to 4 separate channels (let's say 5-8) on the Kronos.
Then, I'd have to assign the CC knobs on the controller to CC#007 on channels 5-8 respectively. I have this part. However, the keybed on the controller can only play ONE channel - so that doesn't work for me.
Does anyone have any insight on what I can do?
In short - I just want the MIDI controller to do the equivalent of the faders 5-8 on my Combi. I'm sure I'm just missing something obvious - but this is taking a LOT of getting used to.
My understanding of MIDI is very limited, and, the way it's all implemented in the Kronos is probably far more than I could ever hope to understand.
(and then, later, for jamming and practising independently, I need to figure out 'KARMA' too. Is it just like 'Styles' on the Tyros?... these are questions for another post though!)
Thanks to anyone who can offer some support - I almost wonder if I bit off more than I can chew with this Kronos...!
First Time Korg Owner...
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
I'm thinking that if you're new to the world of KORG, spend some time, a lot of time, getting to know your new Korg, then maybe later deal with the MIDI issues. I'm not trying to blow off your MIDI question, it's just that there is a steep learning curve with this wonderful keyboard. A friend of mine sold his after a short time because he was overwhelmed. Hang in there, and welcome to the forum. Hopefully someone here will help you with your MIDI question.
Kronos2-61..(2) Triton Classic, Nord Stage 2, Previously owned lots of other gear dating back to the 70’s.
Welcome to the forums and to the Korg crew!
Quick question: Do you know if your Midi Controller can trasmit other forms of messages other than CC#? Like Sysex, for instance?
CC# is easier than figuring out System Exclusive messages, but in my experience it's the opposite for me. I find the CC# stuff isn't as flexible in the assigning of things, but maybe that's just me being stupid. My Midi Keyboard is able to talk to the Kronos with a traditional 5-pin MIDI cable via Sysex, which looks like this, for example:
F0 42 30 68 43 1B 00 00 07 00 00 00 DT F7
Kind of bizarre if you're not familiar with hexadecimal, but I do have to codes for controlling all the faders in Combi mode. I am also considering selling my Midi controller (Roland A-Pro 300 and 800) to act as a companion for the Kronos as I may have no use for it in the near future.
Quick question: Do you know if your Midi Controller can trasmit other forms of messages other than CC#? Like Sysex, for instance?
CC# is easier than figuring out System Exclusive messages, but in my experience it's the opposite for me. I find the CC# stuff isn't as flexible in the assigning of things, but maybe that's just me being stupid. My Midi Keyboard is able to talk to the Kronos with a traditional 5-pin MIDI cable via Sysex, which looks like this, for example:
F0 42 30 68 43 1B 00 00 07 00 00 00 DT F7
Kind of bizarre if you're not familiar with hexadecimal, but I do have to codes for controlling all the faders in Combi mode. I am also considering selling my Midi controller (Roland A-Pro 300 and 800) to act as a companion for the Kronos as I may have no use for it in the near future.
Thanks, everyone, so far!
Taking the replies in order:
1) I'm already enjoying getting to know it - and you're right - the learning curve is DEFINITELY steep. However, I've managed to figure out most of the stuff that I *need* to take it out gigging already - I've downloaded new voices, transferred them into the Kronos, added them to preload. I've created a few combis - including one with splits, velocity layers, and a weird transpose (I'm hitting a C# to play a C to get a particular effect) - I've also managed to set up a basic set-list with combis and programs, and stored these into Preload (as I'm lazy!)
In all honesty, that's most of what I'll be doing with it, other than this little hiccup with the faders for the levels - which isn't a big deal, I can use the Kronos surface anyway - but if my top board has knobs, then I'd like to use the knobs!!
I think I've done well (so far) in the 2 weeks I've had the beast. I really can't wait to get to using it "properly' though. Then after that, will come the time where I can use it 'recreationally' - and that's where I'll start learning KARMA etc.
2) No, the keyboard doesn't do SysEx unfortunately. I've heard of SysEx - and indeed, when I slide the faders, in the MIDI readout on the PC screen, I do see the hex for it - so maybe I need a second keyboard which can do SysEx. My current (Alesis V61) only does CC on the knobs.
In itself, that's not too daunting - thankfully my day-job combines IT and electronics, so should be work-out-able.
3) I'll have a go with CC#11 - and see what difference that makes... I'm not sure it will work though, because I'll be sending CC#11 on MIDI channels 5-8 - but the 4 timbres are all configured to Ch5, so they all play from the keybed.
Now to look for a controller which supports SysEx, and has the other features I want (61 keys, knobs, flashy lights, pressy things and an action which does NOT feel like a 1980s Bontempi reed-organ, like the Alesis V61!!!)
It's so great to have such friendly and knowledgable people to help me - and give such a warm (and forgiving!!) welcome. Hopefully one day I'll be able to pay it forward and help someone else ... probably won't be any time soon, however!!!
Cheers
Ross.
Taking the replies in order:
1) I'm already enjoying getting to know it - and you're right - the learning curve is DEFINITELY steep. However, I've managed to figure out most of the stuff that I *need* to take it out gigging already - I've downloaded new voices, transferred them into the Kronos, added them to preload. I've created a few combis - including one with splits, velocity layers, and a weird transpose (I'm hitting a C# to play a C to get a particular effect) - I've also managed to set up a basic set-list with combis and programs, and stored these into Preload (as I'm lazy!)
In all honesty, that's most of what I'll be doing with it, other than this little hiccup with the faders for the levels - which isn't a big deal, I can use the Kronos surface anyway - but if my top board has knobs, then I'd like to use the knobs!!
I think I've done well (so far) in the 2 weeks I've had the beast. I really can't wait to get to using it "properly' though. Then after that, will come the time where I can use it 'recreationally' - and that's where I'll start learning KARMA etc.
2) No, the keyboard doesn't do SysEx unfortunately. I've heard of SysEx - and indeed, when I slide the faders, in the MIDI readout on the PC screen, I do see the hex for it - so maybe I need a second keyboard which can do SysEx. My current (Alesis V61) only does CC on the knobs.
In itself, that's not too daunting - thankfully my day-job combines IT and electronics, so should be work-out-able.
3) I'll have a go with CC#11 - and see what difference that makes... I'm not sure it will work though, because I'll be sending CC#11 on MIDI channels 5-8 - but the 4 timbres are all configured to Ch5, so they all play from the keybed.
Now to look for a controller which supports SysEx, and has the other features I want (61 keys, knobs, flashy lights, pressy things and an action which does NOT feel like a 1980s Bontempi reed-organ, like the Alesis V61!!!)
It's so great to have such friendly and knowledgable people to help me - and give such a warm (and forgiving!!) welcome. Hopefully one day I'll be able to pay it forward and help someone else ... probably won't be any time soon, however!!!
Cheers
Ross.
Hey Ross, sounds like you've got a good head start on your K. One thing you might want to conceder is getting a UPS. Nothing fanny, but if you're giging with the Kronos, it likes a 'good' AC source. Just in case the lights flicker, it will save you (and the band) from waiting for a re-boot.
Lots of UPS threads here, just do a search. Good Luck!
Lots of UPS threads here, just do a search. Good Luck!
Kronos2-61..(2) Triton Classic, Nord Stage 2, Previously owned lots of other gear dating back to the 70’s.
You mean people DON'T gig with a UPS??!
I've done some very ropey gigs, power-wise - generally the first thing to get connected is the good old FURMAN Power Conditioner - if that complains, then we have a problem!! *reminisces of an outdoor gig, where power was provided by the 'fairground' generator - over 260V and fluctuating between 46 and 66Hz - NOT good for modern power supplies* (we're in the UK btw!)
I generally run a UPS for the desk anyway, as we often like to record bits and pieces from it (A&H Qu-16 / 24) - and if there's a power-glitch mid-record, you often lose the whole session, it's not that forgiving. I'll certainly make sure that's where I power the Kronos from too - thanks! (Good job I always fly the desk when we're out)
Luckily, we don't usually replace batteries in our small UPS units at work, so I've managed to liberate a few over time, put new batteries in and good as new.
I wonder - the K being Linux based, under the hood.... well.... most Linux kernels have UPS support built-in which trigger a controlled shutdown in case of a power event. If I hooked up a UPS via USB to the Kronos, and then tripped the power, I wonder if it would actually shut down! I think I may have to test this - just for fun.
Jumping back to the original question - I think what I need is definitely a SysEx controller. However, I can't find one. I've got a budget of approx £150 for a 49 or 61 - and there's just nothing. Even the boards with a 'learn' option only seem to 'learn' CC, and not SysEx.
I know I could convert it with a laptop, but I don't really want a laptop with me all the time I'm at a gig...
Anyone any thoughts on a good controller - all I need is 49 / 61 keys (non-weighted), and over-and-above the usual bits, 4 or more other sliders or knobs. Don't mind which!
There must be something cheap out there...?
I've done some very ropey gigs, power-wise - generally the first thing to get connected is the good old FURMAN Power Conditioner - if that complains, then we have a problem!! *reminisces of an outdoor gig, where power was provided by the 'fairground' generator - over 260V and fluctuating between 46 and 66Hz - NOT good for modern power supplies* (we're in the UK btw!)
I generally run a UPS for the desk anyway, as we often like to record bits and pieces from it (A&H Qu-16 / 24) - and if there's a power-glitch mid-record, you often lose the whole session, it's not that forgiving. I'll certainly make sure that's where I power the Kronos from too - thanks! (Good job I always fly the desk when we're out)
Luckily, we don't usually replace batteries in our small UPS units at work, so I've managed to liberate a few over time, put new batteries in and good as new.
I wonder - the K being Linux based, under the hood.... well.... most Linux kernels have UPS support built-in which trigger a controlled shutdown in case of a power event. If I hooked up a UPS via USB to the Kronos, and then tripped the power, I wonder if it would actually shut down! I think I may have to test this - just for fun.
Jumping back to the original question - I think what I need is definitely a SysEx controller. However, I can't find one. I've got a budget of approx £150 for a 49 or 61 - and there's just nothing. Even the boards with a 'learn' option only seem to 'learn' CC, and not SysEx.
I know I could convert it with a laptop, but I don't really want a laptop with me all the time I'm at a gig...
Anyone any thoughts on a good controller - all I need is 49 / 61 keys (non-weighted), and over-and-above the usual bits, 4 or more other sliders or knobs. Don't mind which!
There must be something cheap out there...?
From what I understand, some folks are able to force their Midi Controller keyboards to trasmit Sysex messages by using an editor other than the one that comes with your keyboard. But I'm not sure. I just wonder if what you have can already do what you want, but it takes some trickery. I wouldn't count on it though. I sure can't figure out how to get my Alesis Vortex Wireless to send Sysex.
I think when looking for a good Midi Controller for the Kronos, you want a set of knobs, buttons, and sliders that are in the same format as the control surface on the Kronos. What I mean is, your controller should have at least 8 knobs, 9 sliders, 8 to 16 buttons. That way you essentially have 2 Control Surfaces for 1 Kronos.
I've searched high and low for a controller that fits the bill, but so many of them only have 9 sliders. That's not necessarily a deal breaker in some cases, but since I wanted my controller to take over the CX-3 Organ duties, then yeah. Definitely need 9 sliders for the 9 drawbars.
I settled for the Roland A-800 Pro. It has 8 back-pads and 13 backlit buttons. 9 sliders and 9 knobs. I can program all of these controls to do whatever I want via Sysex, but the drawback is the knobs don't have lights. The Novation SL MkII has all the lights you'll need, but then doesn't have that 9th slider. I couldn't figure out the AutoMap editor for the Novation anyway so I ended up selling it.
That's the bothersome thing. Even if you found the perfect controller, you still have to master the editor. With the Roland A-800 Pro, you have to turn On the Advanced USB Mode when connecting to a computer, but turn it Off when you want to connect to the Kronos via USB. Plus the A-Pro series is terribly pricey. I would hope that because these products have been out for years and years, the price would go down. *sigh*
There's just not enough information out there. There's probably products and brands out there that I've never heard of.
I think when looking for a good Midi Controller for the Kronos, you want a set of knobs, buttons, and sliders that are in the same format as the control surface on the Kronos. What I mean is, your controller should have at least 8 knobs, 9 sliders, 8 to 16 buttons. That way you essentially have 2 Control Surfaces for 1 Kronos.
I've searched high and low for a controller that fits the bill, but so many of them only have 9 sliders. That's not necessarily a deal breaker in some cases, but since I wanted my controller to take over the CX-3 Organ duties, then yeah. Definitely need 9 sliders for the 9 drawbars.
I settled for the Roland A-800 Pro. It has 8 back-pads and 13 backlit buttons. 9 sliders and 9 knobs. I can program all of these controls to do whatever I want via Sysex, but the drawback is the knobs don't have lights. The Novation SL MkII has all the lights you'll need, but then doesn't have that 9th slider. I couldn't figure out the AutoMap editor for the Novation anyway so I ended up selling it.
That's the bothersome thing. Even if you found the perfect controller, you still have to master the editor. With the Roland A-800 Pro, you have to turn On the Advanced USB Mode when connecting to a computer, but turn it Off when you want to connect to the Kronos via USB. Plus the A-Pro series is terribly pricey. I would hope that because these products have been out for years and years, the price would go down. *sigh*
There's just not enough information out there. There's probably products and brands out there that I've never heard of.