How do you replicate K1 combis on a new K2?

[Alexia]

I have a new K2 in OS 3.04 and do not have the K1 anymore. I only have my SAVE ALL backup from the K1 in OS 3.03 and the K1 original Pre-Load Discs.

I would like to replicate about 30-40 combi's I made on the K1 to the new K2. If it's easier, I can just ignore some Purgatory Rhodes extra sounds I used on a few. I've read that the K2 'remapping' function does not apply to combis saved in OS 3.03, only 2.0 and prior.

My mac is 10.6.8 so I can't use PCG tools, or the PC only TidyKronos, but I don't think this is a issue solvable by only the Korg Editor.

I have looked extensively and have not found this specific question answered, nor within another recent question I posed which quickly went off track because responders missed that I didn't still have the K1. I don't care how tedious this might be, I want to get this done and not do anything new on the K2 until the starting place is reset if it ends up that way.

Thank you very much.

[19naia]

Have you tried loading the "Save all" files from the K1 onto the K2 ?
Of course only after making a complete backup of your K2 and a back up on an external memory device in case you have to reinstall the software to recover from a crash. I doubt 3.03 and 3.04 will make issues. My K2 shipped in with 3.03 installed and the whole factory files and extra sounds loaded. I went online and downloaded 3.04 and installed it over all content i had under 3.03. So i dont see any reason why 3.03 content would be rejected, i would be curious to know either way. There was no sign of internal memory formating when the software was installed, installing took less time than even a quick format of a 4gb flash drive.

If the K1 "All" files will load onto the K2 despite being formed in 3.03 and now loading into 3.04, then thats a good start. If not, then no point reading the rest of this.
The rest will just be searching out the K2 sample slots with content to match the samples in the K1 programs and then the K2 program slots (make user samples amd programs where no matching samples and program exists) to match the K1 combinations. Change sample slots only from within your program OSC edit page. Dont change actual banks and slots of samples around ,unless the samples dont occur in both K1 and K2 and then that would still be best handled with using empty sample slots to copy or load into rather than changing any existing preload sample's location in it's bank. No need to re-map the entire sample set over 30-40 combis if you dont have software to do it for you. It will only make things much harder if you dont have software to help you do a total re-map.


If you dont have a way to use PCG tools that can make a major sorting easy, then what you could do is focus on only the 30 to 40 combi's.
Thats still a task because it requires going into each k1 program within the K1 Combi and findng the K1 samples that make them up and where they slot in the banks and then doing the same for the K2 set. Some will be samples and others will be wave sequences.

Go looking for the same samples/wave-seq and program content in K1 files but search in K2 files for it, and noting what slot numbers the content falls into in K2 files.
If there are samples/wave sequences used in K1 that arent on the K2(not likely), you will have to find an empty slot for it in K1 files somewhere that can correspond to an empty slot on your K2 original file. So there are probably not any or many like this if you didnt make user samples or create your own samples to insert into programs.

Go through the related programs and find where the samples/wave sequences are slotted in the K1 and compare to where they are slotted in the K2. Then enter the K2 slot number for the same sample/ws used in the k1 program and write it in. Once you have done all of the program samples/ws like that, then do the same for the program slots that fit into the Combis. If you have programs that dont have a match up anywhere in K2 files, then write them into an empty K1 program slot that will also be empty in K2 files. You can load them into K2 set later from K1 files after saving all the K1 edits.

Don't worry that changing the combi slots or program numbers sends your combi's sound askew in the K1 set. What happens is that when you write it all into the combis and then save it "All" to disk mode file, you load only the programs and combis you want from the K1 set file into the K2 set after loading "All" K2 files into the play ready internal hold. Load the select K1 combis into empty combi slots of the K2 set. Again, you load the select K1 combis after loading back your entire K2 all. Because you want to load into K2 set in play ready load, from the tediously edited K1 files saved in disk mode. You can do them one by one or multiple selects .
So they will be askew in K1 set, but only because you changed them to match K2 slots regardless of K1 slot content. The askew content will fall into proper place when you load it up into K2 set because K2 sample content will fill in.
There is a way to reorganize the entire kronos sample set slots ,but the potential permutations that come about from that route are far out compared to remapping only the OSC sample sets used in each program for each program used in each combi out of the 30-40 combis you want to convert over into K2.

Its not easy ,but not too hard if its just a few combis and you may find some of the sample slots are already in matching order between K1 and K2, so that would just leave sorting out the program slots into the combis.

I would not have commented here if i didnt read you saying " I dont care how tedious this might be"

I just made It through a recent tedious project of reconstructing a complex combi from Korg triton which is over 3 generations prior to K2 and has no file sharing capability with Kronos other than standard wave files. That project did more for me than just get my old triton Combi back. It exposed me to a lot of kronos workings that i wouldn't have understood as well, if the tedium didnt thrust me into it.
Still waiting for something tedious in Karma which is my major weak spot now second only to the wide world of midi. I will get a DAW VST suite eventually to work with K2 and an advanced drum machine.

[kbrkr]

There is a relatively straight forward process for this; using PCG Tools:

OPen the K1 .PCG file and click on the Combi you want to copy to the K2.
Click on show Timbres to show the programs used on the K1
Load the K1 .PCG file into the K2
Goto the Combi and for each track/channel, search for the Program Name on the K2 using the spiffy new search function and remap the sound to the K2 program. Most of the programs exist on the K2, just in different slots.

This is how I did it for my K1 Combi's

Al

[AntonySharmman]

Save all or a saved PCG file with all resources from OS v2 is not a wise option to upgrade your resources in OS 3 !
Contary you have to save a PCG file only with your custom resources where only custom Program banks U_CC up to
U_GG and Combi I_E up to U_G must be saved under OS v2 and then proceedure is simple with just loading your
custom PCG in OS v3 and select "yes" on remapping factory resources !
A "saved All" PCG file of version 2 also includes all Kronos 1-X factory resources and this will overwrite
Kronos 2 new PCG factory resources (remapping it or not) !

So under "Alexia" case , I have a suggested workflow that I do for my customers in relative cases !
- Save your current PCG file (or ALL) of Kronos 2 resources as Kronos2.PCG.
- Load your older OS v2 PCG file that includes mixed factory and custom resources , clicking "No" on remapping
window (important before downgrading !)
- From Global/screen upper menu , load older OS v2.xx
- Load also your older KSC files to monitor changes.
- Now under OS v2 save a PCG file (OldKronos.PCG) selecting only your custom resources Progr/Combi/WS/drumkits
strictly in orientation Program banks U_CC up to U_GG and Combi I_E up to U_G.
If a custom program bank is out of above orientation load it again as standalone in a free program bank between U_CC
and U_GG , change Combi references from Global menu and save again OldKronos.PCG !
- Upgrade to latest OS v.3 and load previously saved Kronos2.PCG (or All)
- Load OldKronos.PCG and select "yes" on remapping factory resources window !
- Load all Older KSC files of your older custom samples.
- Done !

Hope this helps

[michelkeijzers]

There is a relatively straight forward process for this; using PCG Tools:

OPen the K1 .PCG file and click on the Combi you want to copy to the K2.
Click on show Timbres to show the programs used on the K1
Load the K1 .PCG file into the K2
Goto the Combi and for each track/channel, search for the Program Name on the K2 using the spiffy new search function and remap the sound to the K2 program. Most of the programs exist on the K2, just in different slots.

This is how I did it for my K1 Combi's

Al

Thanks for mentioning. There is even an easier way: You can select in the copy/paste settings to consider similar or equal named patches as equal.

This way combis using programs with the same name (which is the case for Korg K1/K2; they only changed position), the combis will automatically use the programs with the same name (first encounter).

So change the setting, copy the combis from the K1 PCG file, past ethem into the K2 PCG file and you will see most programs have been automatically removed from the clipboard since they exist already in the K2 PCG file. For the rest (non existing programs in the K2 file) you paste them too (make sure you have space for programs).

[Alexia]

Thank you very much everyone for your clearly detailed responses. It was sure foggy for a while trying to sort out the right procedure including possible conflicting OS issues/when did the remapping function kick in, when didn't it...etc. Anyway, I think I got it, now, much thanks.

I also received a reply from KORG product support that I'll share that pointed out a file in the K2 "Extra Sounds Data" folder containing the exact entire K1 Pre-Load which could be very handy.

Here is their note:

To copy your custom Combinations created in the Kronos 1 to the Kronos 2 you will need to load in your custom Kronos 1 Programs into empty locations on the Kronos 2, then load the custom Kronos 1 Combinations into empty locations in the Kronos 2. Next, you will need to remap the custom Kronos 1 Programs in you custom Kronos 2 Combinations so the correct timbres will play.

However, I do have some good / time saving news. The Kronos 2 has a PCG file that has the original Program and Combination order from the Kronos / Kronos X with the additional Kronos 2 Programs saved into User Banks AA and BB……rather than Banks A and B which completely changes the locations of all the Program locations in the banks. This file called PRELOAD_KRONOSX.PCG is located in the “Extra Sounds Data” folder in Disk mode. If you load this file, and then load in your custom Combinations, you will not need to remap factory Programs (that were not moved) within these Combinations. However, if you saved custom Programs in user AA and BB, they will be overwritten.

You can load Programs and Combinations created on an older operating system (3.0.3) to a Kronos with a newer operating system (3.0.4). In other words, you can load the Programs and Combinations your created on your old Kronos to the Kronos 2 since the os on the Kronos 2 is newer.

You can’t load Programs and Combinations created with a Kronos with a newer os to a Kronos with an older os. Reason being is the newer os will have newer parameters / features than the older os making loading these Programs and Combinations impossible. You would first need to update the os on the Kronos with the older os before you can save it’s Programs and Combinations on a Kronos with a newer os.