I've used a stock (no 3rd party sounds) original Kronos 61 for over 2 years. I recently decided to get a Kronos 2 - 73 key version and I've now purchased a bunch of new 3rd party sounds/samples.
I have way more libraries than I can fit in the Kronos at one time.
I'm looking for recommendations of the best way to go through each library, get the programs (w/samples) I want, and them remove the ones I do not want.
Would I be best off to just use the Kronos itself, or use the Kronos editor, or PCG Tools? What procedure should I follow?
Thanks.
Organizing Sounds & Samples On A New Kronos
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Chopin's11th
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Hey there Codd2 -
Up front I will apologize as I don't have the specific answer and am new here but I did ask a similar question to yours that was met with some great responses. My question was how to load 3rd party sounds into the banks you wish them to be as I was getting stuff overwritten etc.
I don't yet know how to fish my own questions I've posted from before but if you do, I've only posted several times here so far. You may get the answer out of one of them I'm pretty sure of it. (one nearly walked me through it step by step)
I hope this helps
Up front I will apologize as I don't have the specific answer and am new here but I did ask a similar question to yours that was met with some great responses. My question was how to load 3rd party sounds into the banks you wish them to be as I was getting stuff overwritten etc.
I don't yet know how to fish my own questions I've posted from before but if you do, I've only posted several times here so far. You may get the answer out of one of them I'm pretty sure of it. (one nearly walked me through it step by step)
I hope this helps
Korg Kronos X, Mackie Hr624mk2 monitors, M-Audio BX8 monitors, Yamaha HS8S sub, Sony 3way speakers (postM listening only), Beyerdynamic DT770 headgear, Lenovo Ideapad 500 (main daw), Ipad Airtouch 2 (reading/writing scores) Software/Daw – Cakewalk Sonar, Finale 2014, Protools 12
Re: Organizing Sounds & Samples On A New Kronos
Depends if you have more programs that fit into all banks or if you have more samples than the kronos can handle (SDD or RAM)Codd12 wrote: I have way more libraries than I can fit in the Kronos at one time.
I recommend starting with a complete backup (suggesting you don't have any user samples).
To test new libraries I use the following process:
Pick a specific bank to test the library. Depending on the libraries you got you might need two banks (one HD-1 and one EXi).
And pick another bank(s) to keep the libraries you need permanently.
Then load a single library into a test bank. The Kronos loads the user samples only into its RAM. Try all the programs and note the program numbers to keep.
If the libraries contain combinations you need a test bank for them, too.
After that save the programs you want to keep into the bank where you want to keep them permanently.
If there are many programs I recommend using PCG Tools, on the Kronos you have to do a save process for every single program.
After that unload all user samples, clear the test bank(s), reload the necessary samples from the new bank, save them into a .ksc file and add it to auto-load in global mode.
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Melomaniak
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Re: Organizing Sounds & Samples On A New Kronos
Maybe you'll be happy with TidyKronos. I wrote this software case PCG-Tools have not all the features I wish...Codd12 wrote:I've used a stock (no 3rd party sounds) original Kronos 61 for over 2 years. I recently decided to get a Kronos 2 - 73 key version and I've now purchased a bunch of new 3rd party sounds/samples.
I have way more libraries than I can fit in the Kronos at one time.
I'm looking for recommendations of the best way to go through each library, get the programs (w/samples) I want, and them remove the ones I do not want.
Would I be best off to just use the Kronos itself, or use the Kronos editor, or PCG Tools? What procedure should I follow?
Thanks.
<a href="http://www.diesemusik.de/tidykronos" target="_blank">Organize your sounds with the free software<br><img src="http://www.keller12.de/tidykronos/TidyKronos1.png"></a>
not sure about all that PCG tools does, but this question got me thinking about Combi libraries and how they have to come with an included program library in a slot order that corresponds to the combi arrangement, or simply be a combi library designed around the standard order of kronos factory preload programs.
Program order changes around, maybe even sample/wave seq. order changes around, and that transfers over to things going askew in combi mode.
I am wondering if PCG toold handles all that sorting ,or if it still requires manual sifting through and sorting any way ,to make sure it all lines up as it should between samples, programs and combis?
And then there is the issue of content from the old and new kronos having some inconsistencies in the banks/slot order. If mixing up content from old and new Kronos into one file to use on either Kronos, i think sorting out the inconsistencies is needed. Again i dont know much about PCG tools for what it can do about that to make it easier than manually sifting through and sorting it out one by one.
After working out those details and starting with and entire "Save all" under a new file name, the rest is just auditioning sounds one by one and choosing what you want. There is a "Favorites" feature for marking loaded programs and it basically sets them into a whole new category called favorites and then you can go back later and focus on writing or saving them when you have time. Lets you focus on auditioning sounds and doing a quick marking as "favorite" without having to stop every time to save them to a particular slot in an empty bank or to disk mode file. I guess that helps a little.
No need to delete any libraries, i guess you need to sort and condense what you prioritize into one file set and the rest into another file set to save on a USB extrnal memory to not waste it one you internal, but not worth deleteing it either. I keep everything, even stuff i dont like and i keep duplicates of it all. I only delete duplicates of duplicates. Never know when i may change my mind on something or a duplicate saves the day when a back up gets fumbled some how.
load the libraries you want to sift through and use "favorites" markng to isolate them into the favorites category bank. Or if you dont find that useful, the programs can be auditioned from disk mode and loaded one by one or multi select until you load up all slots in all banks and save that as your priority "PCG" or "All" file set under a new file name so as not to overwrite your factory file or any previous save files such as the save all file you should do before even beginning this process.
If you still have more libraries after that, then i am scared for you, but you can do a whole new sifting and loading your selection one by one or loading by multiselect after auditioning it. Load until you have filled all banks or run out of libraries to audition. Then do another PCG or ALL save under another new file name.
It usually says and asks if a related sample is needing to be loaded into a program and the sample banks order should be standard with the program libraries built around the sample bank order so the program content doesnt go askew.
There is a "multi select" for loading sounds from disk mode ,so you dont have to do one by one, But auditoning the sounds will be one by one and then select and move to the next and the next until you have selected a bank full or so. Then you load the entire bank to whatever bank you want.
People keep talking about PCG tools, so maybe there is a better route for you in there. I am ok with just the factory files and bonus sounds that came with my K2-88. So i dont have any tooling needs for managing content. Not yet and not for a long while.
Program order changes around, maybe even sample/wave seq. order changes around, and that transfers over to things going askew in combi mode.
I am wondering if PCG toold handles all that sorting ,or if it still requires manual sifting through and sorting any way ,to make sure it all lines up as it should between samples, programs and combis?
And then there is the issue of content from the old and new kronos having some inconsistencies in the banks/slot order. If mixing up content from old and new Kronos into one file to use on either Kronos, i think sorting out the inconsistencies is needed. Again i dont know much about PCG tools for what it can do about that to make it easier than manually sifting through and sorting it out one by one.
After working out those details and starting with and entire "Save all" under a new file name, the rest is just auditioning sounds one by one and choosing what you want. There is a "Favorites" feature for marking loaded programs and it basically sets them into a whole new category called favorites and then you can go back later and focus on writing or saving them when you have time. Lets you focus on auditioning sounds and doing a quick marking as "favorite" without having to stop every time to save them to a particular slot in an empty bank or to disk mode file. I guess that helps a little.
No need to delete any libraries, i guess you need to sort and condense what you prioritize into one file set and the rest into another file set to save on a USB extrnal memory to not waste it one you internal, but not worth deleteing it either. I keep everything, even stuff i dont like and i keep duplicates of it all. I only delete duplicates of duplicates. Never know when i may change my mind on something or a duplicate saves the day when a back up gets fumbled some how.
load the libraries you want to sift through and use "favorites" markng to isolate them into the favorites category bank. Or if you dont find that useful, the programs can be auditioned from disk mode and loaded one by one or multi select until you load up all slots in all banks and save that as your priority "PCG" or "All" file set under a new file name so as not to overwrite your factory file or any previous save files such as the save all file you should do before even beginning this process.
If you still have more libraries after that, then i am scared for you, but you can do a whole new sifting and loading your selection one by one or loading by multiselect after auditioning it. Load until you have filled all banks or run out of libraries to audition. Then do another PCG or ALL save under another new file name.
It usually says and asks if a related sample is needing to be loaded into a program and the sample banks order should be standard with the program libraries built around the sample bank order so the program content doesnt go askew.
There is a "multi select" for loading sounds from disk mode ,so you dont have to do one by one, But auditoning the sounds will be one by one and then select and move to the next and the next until you have selected a bank full or so. Then you load the entire bank to whatever bank you want.
People keep talking about PCG tools, so maybe there is a better route for you in there. I am ok with just the factory files and bonus sounds that came with my K2-88. So i dont have any tooling needs for managing content. Not yet and not for a long while.
I copied and pasted this from the parameter guide. Its the easiest way i know to erase all or specific category banks so they are initialized and ready for new content from your libraries. It could be useful in organizing. It allows you assign an Exi banks to be an HD-1 banks because Exi banks wont share slots with HD-1. Reassigning deletes the program content in the banks and then you can also restore the assignment to its original assignment but without the orginal slot content. Thats why to be sure to start with a "save all" for the content before you make changes.
I dont care for this much because i still have empty banks to spare, I don't do much .ksc reorganizing and use duplicate .PCG files when i reorganize.
~ *parameter guide cooy and paste*~
Changing the Program Bank Types
Banks can contain either HD-1 Programs or EXi Programs, but not both. This assignment can be set separately for each bank. To do so:
1. Press the front-panel GLOBAL button to enter Global mode.
2. Select the Basic tab.
3. Press the page menu button, and select Set Program Bank Type.
4. Change the Type for the desired banks. Leave all of the other banks set to “No Change.”
Setting a bank’s type will erase all of the Program data in the bank - so make sure that you’re not erasing any Programs you want to keep!
5. Press the OK button.
An “are you sure?” dialog appears.
6. If you’re certain of the change, press OK again.
The selected banks will now be initialized to use the new Program types.
~ *Step 3 allows you to also explore "Change all bank references" options such that you can route I-A bank button to actually call up any other bank&content you assign it to call up. It covers all bank references for Prog. Combi. and Song modes. Moving banks around or reroute their call up buttons.
I dont care for this much because i still have empty banks to spare, I don't do much .ksc reorganizing and use duplicate .PCG files when i reorganize.
~ *parameter guide cooy and paste*~
Changing the Program Bank Types
Banks can contain either HD-1 Programs or EXi Programs, but not both. This assignment can be set separately for each bank. To do so:
1. Press the front-panel GLOBAL button to enter Global mode.
2. Select the Basic tab.
3. Press the page menu button, and select Set Program Bank Type.
4. Change the Type for the desired banks. Leave all of the other banks set to “No Change.”
Setting a bank’s type will erase all of the Program data in the bank - so make sure that you’re not erasing any Programs you want to keep!
5. Press the OK button.
An “are you sure?” dialog appears.
6. If you’re certain of the change, press OK again.
The selected banks will now be initialized to use the new Program types.
~ *Step 3 allows you to also explore "Change all bank references" options such that you can route I-A bank button to actually call up any other bank&content you assign it to call up. It covers all bank references for Prog. Combi. and Song modes. Moving banks around or reroute their call up buttons.
SKung, I followed everything until your last sentence:
Also, how do I "re-load the necessary samples"? How do I know what samples are necessary?
Codd2
How do I unload samples? Is there a way to delete whole libraries? I know how to clear a program bank by changing bank type, but will that remove the samples I don't need?After that unload all user samples, clear the test bank(s), reload the necessary samples from the new bank, save them into a .ksc file and add it to auto-load in global mode.
Also, how do I "re-load the necessary samples"? How do I know what samples are necessary?
Codd2
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michelkeijzers
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PCG Tools and TidyKronos might be used both.
With PCG Tools you can find out which programs are NOT being used by combis (or which combis use certain programs etc, check the list generator).
Also you can cut/copy/move programs/combis keeping their references intact.
With TidyKronos it's very easy to find a patch name, and it keeps songs references intact. Also it can do some things PCG Tools can, but the features are not overlapping (thus can be used in conjunction with eachother).
Samples are not handled by both applications (since they recide in the Kronos and are not present in a PCG file).
(Melomaniak please correct me when I'm wrong).
With PCG Tools you can find out which programs are NOT being used by combis (or which combis use certain programs etc, check the list generator).
Also you can cut/copy/move programs/combis keeping their references intact.
With TidyKronos it's very easy to find a patch name, and it keeps songs references intact. Also it can do some things PCG Tools can, but the features are not overlapping (thus can be used in conjunction with eachother).
Samples are not handled by both applications (since they recide in the Kronos and are not present in a PCG file).
(Melomaniak please correct me when I'm wrong).
Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/
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EnSoNiQuEs~
- Junior Member
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- Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:15 am
- Location: New York,USA
19naia,
Thanks for the info on how to change the bank type...was looking for that command.
Codd12,
to unload all samples, I go to Global Mode, KSC Auto-Load tab, and uncheck all the checkboxes in front of any .KSC files listed, and then hit the Do Auto-Load Now button (lower right). That will remove ALL samples, which you can confirm at the top of that page, which should show all memory is free and only 2 or so MultiSamples, samples present..as place holders.
Also, you can just press the Sampling mode button, and go to top right corner, do the drop down and do the Delete MultiSamples command, and when a pop-up shows up, mark Delete all Samples as well. That usually does the trick. But its important that you have a back of all your MultiSamples(MS).
Once I clear everything, I then proceed to load an AKAI CD, using Program banks User-FF, User-GG, (since they are non-EXi) and keep filling those banks up with Programs. Once I fill up these two banks FF/GG, I go to Disk mode and Save the PCG of these banks (only marking FF/GG banks and deselecting everything else) and then Save Sampling Data command, choose Sampling Mode Data radio button, and All under the options at bottom. This creates a xxx_UserBank.KSC and xxx.KSC. This took a while for me to grasp, even though I read that section of manual over and over...lol...
xxx.KSC is the actual samples/MultiSamples that you can load and edit, add to it, remove, modify, etc. (So, if I load an 500MB AKAI disk into Kronos, this file will pretty much be around 500MB).
xxx_UserBank.KSC is just link to the above xxx.KSC file. So when you load xxx_UserBank.KSC, you will be able to play all the samples/Multipsamples, but will not be able to edit the samples/msamples. But the beauty of loading this xxx_UserBank.KSC file is that its a fraction of the 500MB that is being loaded into Ram, but still gives you access to all those 500MB sounds but using Virtual Memory.
I wanted to load many AKAI disks, but they were not fitting into 2Gigs available in Kronos, until I wrapped my head around the Virtual Memory xxx_UserBank.KSC concept. Now I can load half a dozen AKAI cds on bootup of Kronos, and still have a ton of Ram to spare, since I'm only playing sounds of the SSD drive.
Again, the only issue, gripe, complaint that I have with Korg is that constant shuffling of .PCG file that I have to load, since I do not have many free Program banks. (But that just one click to load a particular .PCG file related to a particular AKAI CD I already have loaded in Virtual memory.)
Recently, I've loaded a guitar based AKAI CD, which has a ton of samples/Multisamples, and I hit a wall with MS Index of 16,000. It said no more MultiSample Indexes available!!! I had plenty of Samples and MultiSamples slots available, but no more MS Indexes. (got a particular error message when I tried to load any more samples/MS from disk...I don't have the error msg with me at this time...)
Anyone know what am I doing wrong, or is there a way to get to the MS Index and review/remove them, etc?
Thanks.
Thanks for the info on how to change the bank type...was looking for that command.
Codd12,
to unload all samples, I go to Global Mode, KSC Auto-Load tab, and uncheck all the checkboxes in front of any .KSC files listed, and then hit the Do Auto-Load Now button (lower right). That will remove ALL samples, which you can confirm at the top of that page, which should show all memory is free and only 2 or so MultiSamples, samples present..as place holders.
Also, you can just press the Sampling mode button, and go to top right corner, do the drop down and do the Delete MultiSamples command, and when a pop-up shows up, mark Delete all Samples as well. That usually does the trick. But its important that you have a back of all your MultiSamples(MS).
Once I clear everything, I then proceed to load an AKAI CD, using Program banks User-FF, User-GG, (since they are non-EXi) and keep filling those banks up with Programs. Once I fill up these two banks FF/GG, I go to Disk mode and Save the PCG of these banks (only marking FF/GG banks and deselecting everything else) and then Save Sampling Data command, choose Sampling Mode Data radio button, and All under the options at bottom. This creates a xxx_UserBank.KSC and xxx.KSC. This took a while for me to grasp, even though I read that section of manual over and over...lol...
xxx.KSC is the actual samples/MultiSamples that you can load and edit, add to it, remove, modify, etc. (So, if I load an 500MB AKAI disk into Kronos, this file will pretty much be around 500MB).
xxx_UserBank.KSC is just link to the above xxx.KSC file. So when you load xxx_UserBank.KSC, you will be able to play all the samples/Multipsamples, but will not be able to edit the samples/msamples. But the beauty of loading this xxx_UserBank.KSC file is that its a fraction of the 500MB that is being loaded into Ram, but still gives you access to all those 500MB sounds but using Virtual Memory.
I wanted to load many AKAI disks, but they were not fitting into 2Gigs available in Kronos, until I wrapped my head around the Virtual Memory xxx_UserBank.KSC concept. Now I can load half a dozen AKAI cds on bootup of Kronos, and still have a ton of Ram to spare, since I'm only playing sounds of the SSD drive.
Again, the only issue, gripe, complaint that I have with Korg is that constant shuffling of .PCG file that I have to load, since I do not have many free Program banks. (But that just one click to load a particular .PCG file related to a particular AKAI CD I already have loaded in Virtual memory.)
Recently, I've loaded a guitar based AKAI CD, which has a ton of samples/Multisamples, and I hit a wall with MS Index of 16,000. It said no more MultiSample Indexes available!!! I had plenty of Samples and MultiSamples slots available, but no more MS Indexes. (got a particular error message when I tried to load any more samples/MS from disk...I don't have the error msg with me at this time...)
Anyone know what am I doing wrong, or is there a way to get to the MS Index and review/remove them, etc?
Thanks.
Kawai MK20, Korg X3, Korg PA3X, Korg Extreme 88, Kronos2-88.