No MIDI playback in user-created COMBI mode

FigureofFiend · Post by **FigureofFiend** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:18 am

Hi there,

Hoping this is an easy fix. I am currently recording MIDI performances into my DAW (Sonar 8.5). My goal is to then use the recorded performance, and utilize MIDI out from the DAW back into the Kronos so it will play it back for me - live - where thereafter I can edit the MIDI and fix any small errors in the performance, etc, and record the "perfect take".

When I attempt playback in Program mode, MIDI out works just fine and I can hear the notes being played in whatever patch I choose, including patches I have created. However, when I am in Combination mode - specifically, combinations I have created, playback does not occur. MIDI playback still works with combination presets though.

So I feel like in the combis I have created, I don't have a parameter allocated properly. In the screen timbre parameter > MIDI, all utilized programs are set to INT and 01G, and in my DAW channels are also set to 1, so I'm curious what that would be.

Any idea what I'm missing? Tried scouring online and the in the Kronos for a good two hours now - can't seem to find what I'm doing wrong.

ronnfigg · Post by **ronnfigg** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:50 am

In a Combi put each Kronos Timbre on its own unique MIDI channel and set each track in your DAW to the corresponding MIDI channel. You might be able to do the same thing in Sequencer mode.

FigureofFiend · Post by **FigureofFiend** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:56 am

After a few more hours of looking through just about... everything, I finally found the solution. In Global > MIDI tab, under MIDI routing setup: KARMA external routing, make sure "Enable MIDI In to KARMA module" is checked.

ronnfigg · Post by **ronnfigg** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:57 am

This might help...

https://youtu.be/AcC3X_uvnUQ

FigureofFiend · Post by **FigureofFiend** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:04 am

ronnfigg wrote:In a Combi put each Kronos Timbre on its own unique MIDI channel and set each track in your DAW to the corresponding MIDI channel. You might be able to do the same thing in Sequencer mode.

I've been wondering about that actually:

As an additional question, if this is even possible - I wonder how would I have to route everything so that I can split individual programs within the combination to different MIDI channels, so that in my DAW I can record each program performance at the same time, but split the MIDI notes to each allocated channel. Currently, when I adjust the MIDI channel in timbre parameter > MIDI to anything but the global channel (or 01, which is global), nothing will play. I imagine it has something to do with setting up KARMA properly.

So to rephrase, how do I play each program within a combination, while splitting the channels somehow so I can record the MIDI performances separately (at the same time means multiple programs in a combi, but for instance, two programs are split on keyboard - and only program 1 MIDI data is recorded when I play one side, program 2 records only when playing other side.)

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:04 am

FigureofFiend wrote:After a few more hours of looking through just about... everything, I finally found the solution. In Global > MIDI tab, under MIDI routing setup: KARMA external routing, make sure "Enable MIDI In to KARMA module" is checked.

I came across this recently. After countless hours spent studying the manual, I came to the realisation that it's either a bug in the implementation or an omission in the manual.

Ultimately it seems that the KARMA MIDI I/O settings always affect MIDI routing in the KRONOS, regardless of whether KARMA is activated or not. If the "Enable MIDI IN to KARMA module" option is disabled, MIDI received on certain channels disappears into a black hole.

ronnfigg · Post by **ronnfigg** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:17 am

Maybe page 90 of the OG- "Recording multiple MIDI tracks from an external sequencer" might help?

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:37 am

ronnfigg wrote:Maybe page 90 of the OG- "Recording multiple MIDI tracks from an external sequencer" might help?

Unfortunately the Operations Guide (including that section) doesn't clarify that the KARMA MIDI I/O settings are always effective, and if "Enable MIDI In to KARMA Module" is disabled, Multi-Record will not record MIDI on Channels 1-4 under the default KARMA settings.

In fact, the Parameter Guide explicitly mentions that if "Enable MIDI In to KARMA Module" is disabled, all other functions except for KARMA work as per normal - which contradicts how the KRONOS appears to work in practice.

There are two ways to mitigate this issues:
1) Ensure "Enable MIDI In to KARMA Module" is always enabled; or
2) Ensure that the Input Channels in KARMA MIDI I/O settings are set to channels that aren't being used for all four modules.

ronnfigg · Post by **ronnfigg** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:48 am

I'm confused. The OP never mentions anything about using KARMA, so why would this setting come in to play here? I don't do much sequencing, so I should probably keep my mouth shut, but I do like to hear about solutions. It helps me understand the intricacies of the Kronos.

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:52 am

ronnfigg wrote:I'm confused. The OP never mentions anything about using KARMA, so why would this setting come in to play here?

I'm confused too

And indeed, why would KARMA come into it? Therein lies the puzzle!

FigureofFiend wrote:After a few more hours of looking through just about... everything, I finally found the solution. In Global > MIDI tab, under MIDI routing setup: KARMA external routing, make sure "Enable MIDI In to KARMA module" is checked.

I came across the same issue recently, and after hours trying to work out the cause, came to the same conclusion as FigureofFiend. Despite pouring over the manuals, there was no mention on the impact this seemingly innocuous setting could have on something as trivial as MIDI triggering a combi.

ronnfigg · Post by **ronnfigg** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:22 am

FigureofFiend wrote:
ronnfigg wrote:In a Combi put each Kronos Timbre on its own unique MIDI channel and set each track in your DAW to the corresponding MIDI channel. You might be able to do the same thing in Sequencer mode.
I've been wondering about that actually:

As an additional question, if this is even possible - I wonder how would I have to route everything so that I can split individual programs within the combination to different MIDI channels, so that in my DAW I can record each program performance at the same time, but split the MIDI notes to each allocated channel. Currently, when I adjust the MIDI channel in timbre parameter > MIDI to anything but the global channel (or 01, which is global), nothing will play. I imagine it has something to do with setting up KARMA properly.

So to rephrase, how do I play each program within a combination, while splitting the channels somehow so I can record the MIDI performances separately (at the same time means multiple programs in a combi, but for instance, two programs are split on keyboard - and only program 1 MIDI data is recorded when I play one side, program 2 records only when playing other side.)

Again, I believe if you have the Kronos set up with each Timbre in a Combi (or Track in the Sequencer) set to a unique MIDI channel and the DAW set to the corresponding MIDI channel, the MIDI data coming from the DAW should play the Timbres (Tracks) on the Kronos. As far as recording multiple parts from the Kronos into the DAW I think it works the same way in reverse, and the MIDI Zones would have to be set up so that the right data comes from the correct region of the keyboard.

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:33 am

ronnfigg wrote: Again, I believe if you have the Kronos set up with each Timbre in a Combi ... set to a unique MIDI channel and the DAW set to the corresponding MIDI channel, the MIDI data coming from the DAW should play the Timbres (Tracks) on the Kronos.

That's how it should work - in theory. It should be that simple. And that's certainly how it works if "Enable MIDI In to KARMA Module" is enabled (which is the factory default).

However, if "Enable MIDI In to KARMA Module" is disabled, then received MIDI messages will not play on MIDI Channels 1 - 4. The setting should not be related, but for whatever reason it has an effect.

Conceptually, what I believe is happening is incoming MIDI messages are always routed according to the KARMA MIDI I/O settings. This works fine when "Enable MIDI In to KARMA Module" is enabled, as they pass through unchanged when KARMA is off. However when that option is changed, the MIDI messages pass through the MIDI routing, but because MIDI In to KARMA is disabled, the messages are effective dropped and do not pass through to the track.

I was faced with the same problem, and after many hours of investigation discovered it was because I had changed that setting ~12 months ago.

ronnfigg · Post by **ronnfigg** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:41 am

Ok. Now I get it. Thanks for the clarification. Strange implementation. I guess they assume we are going to use KARMA because we like it so much!