Mysterious combination

KEYponderer · Post by **KEYponderer** » Mon May 25, 2015 5:55 pm

I own my Kronos for four months. Trying to learn sound programming from the preset combinations and programs.

I stumbled upon combination "Lucid Dreamin' Rap Star". Two timbres are made of "Maj - HipHop Brass Hit" which sounds completely different than the timbres in the combination. One like a bell piano, the other like pole (?) hit.
When I change the timbre to another program and then return to "Maj - HipHop Brass Hit" the combination plays the sound I would expect.

Does anybody know the magic behind this combination?

Thanks in advance,
KEYponderer

Rigel · Post by **Rigel** » Mon May 25, 2015 9:05 pm

I didnt check that on my K, but your observation seems to stem from different effects settings of the combi and program in question.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Mon May 25, 2015 9:30 pm

Sounds like maybe Tone Adjust was used to heavily modify the original program sound within the combi. Changing or reloading a program in a combination will reset the Tone Adjust panel.

KEYponderer · Post by **KEYponderer** » Mon May 25, 2015 10:02 pm

I followed the effect route and also changed routing, but this doesn't change how each timbre sounds.
It looks like the piano sound is an accord following the speed of the short decay brass hit sample, but I couldn't find the respective samples in the timbre settings.
Any idea which setting to look for?

keywhiz61 · Post by **keywhiz61** » Tue May 26, 2015 12:07 am

Unless specifically told to do so, the effects used in the Program aren't going to be carried over and used in the Timbre of the Combi.

Take the effects off the Program and see if it sounds more like how it sounds in the Combi

KEYponderer · Post by **KEYponderer** » Tue May 26, 2015 9:20 pm

I switched off all effects, but this doesn't help me to explain why the two timbres sound like completely different samples than the one used for the program.
Also walked thru all timbre settings, but I really don't get it.
Hard to explain if you don't sit in front of your instrument and listen to the sound of each timbre compared to the program both refer to.
This is kind of magic. Well, no wonder, because it has been programmed by John 'Skippy' Lehmkuhl.
Anyone having a clue how it really works?

Thanks,
KEYponderer

KEYponderer · Post by **KEYponderer** » Tue May 26, 2015 9:57 pm

I find it as A117 under BassSplit category. Got firmware v3.0.2 installed.

Just finished reading an article about Tone Adjust. Must take a second look if I haven't overseen a detail.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Tue May 26, 2015 10:03 pm

As I said you can heavily modify programs within the context of a combination using Tone Adjust. If you then save the combination, it will have your "altered" program in it (really it's kind of a Tone Adjust "overly"). Selecting a new program on that timbre resets the Tone Adjust parameters. Switching back to the original will also, again, reset Tone Adjust, leading to a (potentially) vastly different sound from when you first opened the combi.

keywhiz61 · Post by **keywhiz61** » Tue May 26, 2015 10:04 pm

KEYponderer wrote:I switched off all effects, but this doesn't help me to explain why the two timbres sound like completely different samples than the one used for the program.
Also walked thru all timbre settings, but I really don't get it.
Hard to explain if you don't sit in front of your instrument and listen to the sound of each timbre compared to the program both refer to.
This is kind of magic. Well, no wonder, because it has been programmed by John 'Skippy' Lehmkuhl.
Anyone having a clue how it really works?

Thanks,
KEYponderer

It's all in the effects. But, granted, a very creative use of them!

First I turned off all the effects used in the Combi, then I returned those those two timbres to their original key (they are taken down -24 steps).

Then I copied the effects from the program to the timbres, and they both ended up sounded exactly like the program.

So, what he did was the opposite. Used the program without bringing the original program effects over, and then added a bunch of stuff within the Combi effects to create entirely new sounds.

keywhiz61 · Post by **keywhiz61** » Tue May 26, 2015 10:10 pm

Also, the combi is using Karma as well. I turned that off too to get the timbres to sound like the program.

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Tue May 26, 2015 10:18 pm

Actually it's really easy to achieve. This is indeed done in tone control where you can modify the parameters of the program. In this case the timbre 2 uses sample 1202, and timbre 3 uses sample 482.

You can also modify this yourself.

.. Select the combi
.. Press the tone adj button (it's next to the drumtrack button)
.. Press the tab control surface on your touchscreen
.. On the right side of your screen you see the word timbre, select t02
.. Check the second row on lane 7, it says ms/ws/dkit with a value of 1202
.. Change this to a different value, now you are using a different sample, but with the original programming of that program.
.. Now select timbre t03
.. There you see the sample 482 is used for the same program.

That's why they sound different. The tone control feature is an extremely powerful feature in combi mode, i use it all the time and think it's worth experimenting with it if you are into combi programming.

kenrdot · Post by **kenrdot** » Wed May 27, 2015 6:20 am

Thank you Qui for your expert insight once again

KEYponderer · Post by **KEYponderer** » Wed May 27, 2015 8:50 am

This combination is no longer a mystery for me.
Very well explained, QuiRobinez!

Thanks a lot (also to those pointing to the Tone Adjust settings),
KEYponderer