Hello everyone!
I have just bought used M-50 and discovered a really weird problem there: Some notes on some patches are sounding very distorted : they have vibrations, noise and other distortions on it.
This trouble persists on really random notes, somу patches have it on one notes, some on others.
Some patches have no distorted notes at all.
Some patches have all notes distorted.
Some distorted notes are playing clearly on low velocity.
Some distorted notes are distorted on all velocities.
I have re-loaded all patches to default, I re-updated the software and problem still persists.
It is definitely not a keyboard problem, notes sounded distorted with Chord Triggering and Arpeggiator as well.
It looks like that some waveforms or algorythms in engine are broken somehow. Did somebody meet such a problem? Any suggestions?
Problem: some notes are sounding distorted.
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billbaker
- Platinum Member
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Mimo-shel,
Can you characterize the distortion in any way - maybe relate it to type of distortion you might hear with a distortion pedal, or is it crackling, or does it sound like a different sample is playing?
There's a chance that some part of your amplifier is being overdriven by the output of a keyboard (as opposed to guitar or microphone). You might have a blown speaker or driver that is distorting on a particular frequency.
Some samples are prone to digital aliasing at extreme ranges - ambient harmonics that are low or inaudible at some frequencies become very prominent when raised 2 or more octaves making for distortion that may have a rhythmic or atonal quality as if modulation were being applied or a second sample is being played.
What are you listening on and what is your volume setting?
Headphones may be "colored" to emphasize certain frequencies - older/cheaper models may distort more easily, especially on low frequencies or when close harmonies are played in low octaves. Except for very high quality earbuds distortion is more likely than not.
What types of sounds does the distortion appear to be linked to?
Does it appear on high lead sounds, large pads, synth basses with suboctaves, home-made (tweaked) sounds, sounds with very large room effects, sounds with very spiky amp transients such as those found in acoustic piano? All of these are naturally prone to distortion, clipping and overdriving - especially if programmed haphazardly.
BB
Can you characterize the distortion in any way - maybe relate it to type of distortion you might hear with a distortion pedal, or is it crackling, or does it sound like a different sample is playing?
There's a chance that some part of your amplifier is being overdriven by the output of a keyboard (as opposed to guitar or microphone). You might have a blown speaker or driver that is distorting on a particular frequency.
Some samples are prone to digital aliasing at extreme ranges - ambient harmonics that are low or inaudible at some frequencies become very prominent when raised 2 or more octaves making for distortion that may have a rhythmic or atonal quality as if modulation were being applied or a second sample is being played.
What are you listening on and what is your volume setting?
Headphones may be "colored" to emphasize certain frequencies - older/cheaper models may distort more easily, especially on low frequencies or when close harmonies are played in low octaves. Except for very high quality earbuds distortion is more likely than not.
What types of sounds does the distortion appear to be linked to?
Does it appear on high lead sounds, large pads, synth basses with suboctaves, home-made (tweaked) sounds, sounds with very large room effects, sounds with very spiky amp transients such as those found in acoustic piano? All of these are naturally prone to distortion, clipping and overdriving - especially if programmed haphazardly.
BB
billbaker
Triton Extreme 88, Triton Classic Pro, Trinity V3 Pro
+E-mu, Alesis, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, Line-6, TC Elecronics, Behringer, Lexicon...
Triton Extreme 88, Triton Classic Pro, Trinity V3 Pro
+E-mu, Alesis, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, Line-6, TC Elecronics, Behringer, Lexicon...
Hi Bill, thank you for reply!
Yes, I can characterize the distortion - it really sounds like crackling and sometimes like playing the different sample. I have recorded some samples, to get more accurate feeling about the problem.
And it is definitely not a problem of amplifier or monitoring system, this problem sounds the same in the headphones, speakers and in recordind to PC. Volume is set up correctly, and distortions are not coonected with volume, it sounds the same on low volume level as well as on high level.
And it it more linked to complex sounds, so the pianos or claviers are less distorted while strings and synth are much more "broken"
Also, it is not problem of weird editing, because I have just re-initialised whole synth, uploaded fresh firmware and default patches into it. No tweaking of sound at all.
So, here are few examples:
[Just puch small "play" button in the left middle to listen]
http://prostopleer.com/tracks/5534438hC8s - M50 Piano (no broken notes)
http://prostopleer.com/tracks/55344392uvY - Pure Wurly (some notes are distorted, some are clean)
http://prostopleer.com/tracks/5534440bBhh - Intimate Strings (all notes are distorted and it looks like wrong samples are sounding)
Yes, I can characterize the distortion - it really sounds like crackling and sometimes like playing the different sample. I have recorded some samples, to get more accurate feeling about the problem.
And it is definitely not a problem of amplifier or monitoring system, this problem sounds the same in the headphones, speakers and in recordind to PC. Volume is set up correctly, and distortions are not coonected with volume, it sounds the same on low volume level as well as on high level.
And it it more linked to complex sounds, so the pianos or claviers are less distorted while strings and synth are much more "broken"
Also, it is not problem of weird editing, because I have just re-initialised whole synth, uploaded fresh firmware and default patches into it. No tweaking of sound at all.
So, here are few examples:
[Just puch small "play" button in the left middle to listen]
http://prostopleer.com/tracks/5534438hC8s - M50 Piano (no broken notes)
http://prostopleer.com/tracks/55344392uvY - Pure Wurly (some notes are distorted, some are clean)
http://prostopleer.com/tracks/5534440bBhh - Intimate Strings (all notes are distorted and it looks like wrong samples are sounding)
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billbaker
- Platinum Member
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- Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 11:56 pm
- Location: Vienna, Virginia, USA
- Contact:
Listened to your recorded examples. They are very good, and sound horrible... if that's not a contradiction in terms.
I don't think I would even characterize this as distortion. It's too clear and consistent... noise-ish, and clearly broken, but not really chaotic enough for distortion.
To me it sounds way more like corrupted data in the ROM samples. I can hear that at least part of the sound (perhaps an upper or lower osc.) is still working as it should.
If it is under warrantee, I'd take it back for a replacement or repair. Even if not under warrantee, this is something that, if documented by other owners may be a clear QA/QC issue that would demand a free repair.
This is the first I've heard of it - so it may be a new or emerging problem. Worth sending a few e-mails up the chain to see what you can find out. Hit up Korg (support & corporate), and seller, perhaps consumer protection if no resolution is offered.
BB
I don't think I would even characterize this as distortion. It's too clear and consistent... noise-ish, and clearly broken, but not really chaotic enough for distortion.
To me it sounds way more like corrupted data in the ROM samples. I can hear that at least part of the sound (perhaps an upper or lower osc.) is still working as it should.
If it is under warrantee, I'd take it back for a replacement or repair. Even if not under warrantee, this is something that, if documented by other owners may be a clear QA/QC issue that would demand a free repair.
This is the first I've heard of it - so it may be a new or emerging problem. Worth sending a few e-mails up the chain to see what you can find out. Hit up Korg (support & corporate), and seller, perhaps consumer protection if no resolution is offered.
BB
billbaker
Triton Extreme 88, Triton Classic Pro, Trinity V3 Pro
+E-mu, Alesis, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, Line-6, TC Elecronics, Behringer, Lexicon...
Triton Extreme 88, Triton Classic Pro, Trinity V3 Pro
+E-mu, Alesis, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, Line-6, TC Elecronics, Behringer, Lexicon...
I agree with Bill that is sounds like bad data coming from the ROM. However, the ROM itself may not be bad, since you could get the same result if one pin of the ROM on an address line has a broken solder joint or, if it's in a socket, a pin with a bad contact point. If it's out of warranty, then you may be able to get the service manual to identify the ROM location and to see if it's in a socket.
If the ROM has one address bit that's not working, then it will return data from the wrong location, which would explain why the waveform is mostly right and partly wrong, instead of being entirely wrong. Longer samples like the wurly and strings might just happen to be located in the addresses that require that one address line to be enabled, causing it to return the wrong data due to the wrong address, even though the right address is being sent to the ROM with one bit remaining off.
If the ROM is in a socket, carefully removing and reseating it might solve the problem. You can also look for any bad solder joints or broken traces on the board. I wouldn't recommend trying to fix this by yourself if it's under warranty, or if you don't have any experience with electronics.
The only workaround would be to avoid the programs that use those samples.
If the ROM has one address bit that's not working, then it will return data from the wrong location, which would explain why the waveform is mostly right and partly wrong, instead of being entirely wrong. Longer samples like the wurly and strings might just happen to be located in the addresses that require that one address line to be enabled, causing it to return the wrong data due to the wrong address, even though the right address is being sent to the ROM with one bit remaining off.
If the ROM is in a socket, carefully removing and reseating it might solve the problem. You can also look for any bad solder joints or broken traces on the board. I wouldn't recommend trying to fix this by yourself if it's under warranty, or if you don't have any experience with electronics.
The only workaround would be to avoid the programs that use those samples.
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Jungleworm
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:05 pm
Hello! I discovered the same problem about month ago. It was allright before, and I don't even know what caused this problem, because I didn't used my M50 too often. It, basically stayed untouched for about 2 or 3 months and than I notice this issue, when started to play it after a brake. Have someone resolved this problem yet? Here the video I made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... qp70yfg4Bs
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engineerjoel
- Full Member
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:50 am
M50 distortion issue
My M50 has just started exhibiting this problem.
Could it be something in the global setting?
I have a Kurzweil SP4-7 and my M50 connected to the same multitrack recorder. I get a nice clean signal with loads of volume out of the SP4-7 with the occasional blink on the Peak LED. The M50 has this distorted sound with the peak LED coming on solid at less than 1/3 the volume of the SP-4-7.
What's up? My M50 was one of my favorite boards now I want to chuck it in the trash.
Did anyone figure out a fix or why it is happening?
Could it be something in the global setting?
I have a Kurzweil SP4-7 and my M50 connected to the same multitrack recorder. I get a nice clean signal with loads of volume out of the SP4-7 with the occasional blink on the Peak LED. The M50 has this distorted sound with the peak LED coming on solid at less than 1/3 the volume of the SP-4-7.
What's up? My M50 was one of my favorite boards now I want to chuck it in the trash.
Did anyone figure out a fix or why it is happening?