Pa3x vs t5 and other TOTL arrangers

[Bachus]

Now sound in general is a personal thing, so thats not the issue, i am talking features here..

What features does the Pa3X have that are missing on the T5
And what features of the T5 would you like to see in the Pa4X

And what was done better in the Pa3x then inthe T5?


Just trying to figure out how and where the major arranger feature wise differ. Same questions could be asked for PA3x versus Roland BK9, Casio WK7600 and Ketron audya?

Most of these keydefining pro features are not in the spec sheat..

[Sharp]

What features does the Pa3X have that are missing on the T5

Far too many to list. The Tyros 5 can't even edit samples let alone offer anything that resembles advanced sound editing functions or the ability to be used as a decent midi controller. Does it even have a full sequencer ?

The Tyros 5 is built to give a wow factor when you open the box.

And what features of the T5 would you like to see in the Pa4X

Pa4X ?

But the current Pa3X far exceeds the T5 in pretty much every ability.

And what was done better in the Pa3x then inthe T5?

Everything ? Including the fact it costs a lot less and is far better built.

Seriously, I'm not kidding. The T5 is a nice keyboard, but when it comes down to it, it's only a minor incremental improvement over all the previos Tyros Series that came before it.

Regards
Sharp

[Giner]

Bachus, it's a valid enough question to seek comparison between 'similar' keyboards and, as you are no doubt well aware, on other fora this is an easy wind-up to start a pissing contest. Now, you shouldn't infer from that that you're being accused of such an action, but owing to the almost complete absence of Yamaha arranger owners here, we'll hopefully avoid those kinds of stupid arguments in this parish.

[BillyHank]

Now I was a Yamaha arranger keyboard "ONLY" owner before moving to Korg this year.

My first impression after having the Korg Pa900 for 1 hour was - "Now this is what I was expecting from Yamaha all these years, but never even got close!"

Yes - I owned several PSR's and 3 Tyros models too.
If all your interested in is playing and using existing styles and sounds, just chose the one that sounds best to you.
But - If you want to make your own styles or sounds, then the Korg is your only answer.

It is just that simple.

Bill G

[Thoraldus]

Now I was a Yamaha arranger keyboard "ONLY" owner before moving to Korg this year.

My first impression after having the Korg Pa900 for 1 hour was - "Now this is what I was expecting from Yamaha all these years, but never even got close!"

Yes - I owned several PSR's and 3 Tyros models too.
If all your interested in is playing and using existing styles and sounds, just chose the one that sounds best to you.
But - If you want to make your own styles or sounds, then the Korg is your only answer.

It is just that simple.

Bill G

Agreed!!!

[fResH_]

Like the other guys said about the benefits of pa3x compared with tyros im with them on that..

BUT, keep in mind if yamaha had this functions in its unit.. I would run over to the Yamaha side directly. It just sounds better..


Just some of the comparission that tyros misses in its hardware that KORG is better is the pitchbend and ribbon and seperate fill in buttons.

The operative system in korg is better, you have the ability to edit all samples, drumkits and sounds. I dont think you can put layers in the drums in tyros. Were in other hand you have full controll in korg.

Yamahas DSP is very nice. Makes the keyboard sound rich and fat full and clear. They also have alot sounds that are better (my taste)
And especially Tyros drumkits compared to KORGs is far better. (my taste)

[Bachus]

Bachus, it's a valid enough question to seek comparison between 'similar' keyboards and, as you are no doubt well aware, on other fora this is an easy wind-up to start a pissing contest. Now, you shouldn't infer from that that you're being accused of such an action, but owing to the almost complete absence of Yamaha arranger owners here, we'll hopefully avoid those kinds of stupid arguments in this parish.

I hope so too...

And if i hadnt owned a Kronos, a PA would have been a serious option to me.. but i think the kronos offers me almost everything Korg has to offer.

Problem is, i searched all over the web for a good comparison of these instruments, but there simply isnt one that lists all the features and all the differences.

Now Sharp is very outspoken against Yamaha, as he has allways been, which is his good right and from his position as a musician and sound engineer very understandable. But for me the Kronos is more then enough challenge for the years to come, my main goal is to add a single instrument to it that adds good sounds, styles and solo sounds straight OOTB. Currently own an Audya 4, and while the styles are great, the solo voices just feel to dated to me, and i barely use them.


But all in all i am just looking for a complete list of features and asking this question at all the brand related forums, because if i ask it at general forums it allways ends up in a my K is better then yours, i hope to avoid that in this way..


I decided to create a full document comparing these keyboards if i get enough information from people that actually own them, and i can only fill in what i know from my Audya..

[barry murphy]

When I decided to buy a new KB, Iwent through many forums for advice and listened to many demo,s. I bought a Yam psr710 mainly because of price and name.
Don't get me wrong, the 710 is a nice little KB but I just felt I didn't get enough for my dollars.
I looked into ketron( too dear) and korg and roland. The only positives were for the korg pa3x. Some of the other brand users just seemed to argue about what they offered whereas korg (this site especially) seemed more interested in discussing the positives.
One post(I don't know which one. I can't find it) explained that if the pa3x didn't sound up to one,s expectations, edit was available to make it so.
That sold me. I can tell you that I now wouldn't care if Yamaha released a t20, I would not part with this brilliant keyboard and I cannot even use all of it's features because it is so far above my capabilities.
But that's good right? We all like a challenge.
I still have the 710 and I've spent more than I bargained for but I now have the right gear. Sorry if I got offtrack.
baz

[karmathanever]

Hi Bachus

Like me, I don't think Sharp is "against" Yamaha - we are simply comparing the products.
I have expressed my feelings many times before (everyone is probably fed up with them by now )
but here are a couple more things for you to think about.
I agree with Matthew regarding the drums - but here are some things for you to consider:-

• No tempo lock
  No convenient bass inversion toggle when live performing/recording
  AI intelligent chord fingering does not work properly (since the PSR s900/s700 and on all Tyros's!!!)
  No total control over SA technology - annoying
  No total control over FILLs - very annoying
  Inconvenient old-fashioned REGISTRATION feature
  Only "average" quality vocal harmonizer
  Overpriced

Just a few things - there are many more in comparison to Korg PA1/2/3X
(I did own both keyboards!!)

Hope this helps you to compile your list

Pete

[Sharp]

Now Sharp is very outspoken against Yamaha, as he has allways been, which is his good right and from his position as a musician and sound engineer very understandable. But for me the Kronos is more then enough challenge for the years to come, my main goal is to add a single instrument to it that adds good sounds, styles and solo sounds straight OOTB. Currently own an Audya 4, and while the styles are great, the solo voices just feel to dated to me, and i barely use them.

It's not that I'm outspoken, in direct relation to the thread you started, the Pa3X is the more advanced machine function wise. I don't believe anyone at all would disagree with me on that either, and there's not too many ways to get that point across without sounding like I might be putting down the Tyros. I actually still like the Tyros.

If your question was to ask, ignore the technical functions of a keyboard and it's price, and to focus only on which offers the best out of the box experience. Then that would be entirely different story. The T5 holds it's own very well against the Pa3X when it comes to the out of the box experience. As does Roland and KETRON's offering.

I understand what your saying about the KRONOS but the main reason why the KRONOS has such a lead in the market is because it has the power of a PC inside and the benefits one gives. KORG simply don't have the traditional limitations to deal with as dedicated hardware workstations have to deal with.

The Pa3X in my opinion has outgrown it's architecture. At this stage dedicated hardware is only holding the Pa-Series back and that I bet KORG are probably looking into taking their Arrangers down the same path as the OASYS / KRONOS architecture.

If / when this happens, there will be the same kind of major leap forward for KORG Arrangers that we have seen with their Workstations.

Happy days.
Sharp

[Dreamer]

for me the Kronos is more then enough challenge for the years to come, my main goal is to add a single instrument to it that adds good sounds, styles and solo sounds straight OOTB. Currently own an Audya 4, and while the styles are great, the solo voices just feel to dated to me, and i barely use them.

Bachus,

if you are not happy with the Kronos/Audya combination this means that you are not using it at its full potential; so start doing a bit of programming on the Kronos, create your own combis and use the left part of the keyboard to drive the Audya (use just its styles and forget the solo sounds: the Kronos has more sounds than you could use in a lifetime).
If you really have money to burn and like the Yamaha sounds, buy a Tyros 4: today they sell for 2000-2200 euros and are really in mint conditions. The Tyros 5 has nothing more to offer compared with the combination Kronos/Audya and its price is just absurd (for that amount of money you could buy a Kronos X 88 ).
And a final word of advice: forget the specifications, because they don't tell anything on how an instrument sounds.

[Bachus]

for me the Kronos is more then enough challenge for the years to come, my main goal is to add a single instrument to it that adds good sounds, styles and solo sounds straight OOTB. Currently own an Audya 4, and while the styles are great, the solo voices just feel to dated to me, and i barely use them.

Bachus,

if you are not happy with the Kronos/Audya combination this means that you are not using it at its full potential; so start doing a bit of programming on the Kronos, create your own combis and use the left part of the keyboard to drive the Audya (use just its styles and forget the solo sounds: the Kronos has more sounds than you could use in a lifetime).
If you really have money to burn and like the Yamaha sounds, buy a Tyros 4: today they sell for 2000-2200 euros and are really in mint conditions. The Tyros 5 has nothing more to offer compared with the combination Kronos/Audya and its price is just absurd (for that amount of money you could buy a Kronos X 88 ).
And a final word of advice: forget the specifications, because they don't tell anything on how an instrument sounds.

i am very happy with the kronos and no single hair on my head is thinking of replacing it.

but not with the audya... I dont like how tha comtrolls work, its midi implementation is wacky at best, and the solo sounds sound old and non sparkling to me. Styles however are great, but over the last few months i have grown an irritation against the unit... I am looking to replace it.

So far my only complaint with the K is the wood and brass sounds, they are somehow less naturall then i would have missed, and i cant find anything like DNC in the Kronos, maybe i am looking in the wrong place?

[Sharp]

So far my only complaint with the K is the wood and brass sounds, they are somehow less natural

Maybe you know this, maybe you don't, but the Preload contains only a small selection of sounds from EXs3 which is the woodwinds / brass expansion.

There's a lot of woodwinds / brass and entire COMBI banks missing from the preload.

Regards
Sharp.

[Bachus]

So far my only complaint with the K is the wood and brass sounds, they are somehow less natural

Maybe you know this, maybe you don't, but the Preload contains only a small selection of sounds from EXs3 which is the woodwinds / brass expansion.

There's a lot of woodwinds / brass and entire COMBI banks missing from the preload.

Regards
Sharp.

There is no legato play, or anything that can make them sound like actuall live instruments.... Sure the samples are of the highest quallity, but i cant make them sound like a real sax or trumpet, they keep sounding like really good samples mut not like the real thing... And thats where DNC voices in the PA or SA2 voices or some of the stuff in kontakt come much closer.

Maybe its my limited knowledge of the kronos, its only been mine for like 5 months now.

[Dreamer]

Bachus,

on your Kronos you can load huge libraries of strings, brass, and whatever other sounds you might like. Some of them load directly (like the Akai), others (like Gigasampler) require a conversion to SF2 and for this you will need a program like Translator or Extreme Sample Converter. The cool thing about the Kronos is that, even if some of these libraries are huge (we are talking Gigabites here) they don't need to be loaded into the RAM but will stream from the solid state drive.
Of course there is a bit of work to do before you can use them, but believe me: the results are worth the effort (and just to clarify: they make the Tyros 5 sound like a toy and even if come at a price, this is nothing compared with the price of the T5).
Since you are into chamber/classic music you might be interested into these links:

http://www.dandeanpro.com/sample_lib/pr ... .php?pid=6

http://www.vsl.co.at/en/65/71/84/1349.vsl