BK-9 Serious Competition?

AntonySharmman · Post by **AntonySharmman** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:58 pm

Frans N wrote:You forget the Korg PA 588 and probably soon the PA688. Even better for a pianist.

Talking always for existing semi-weighted 76 keybed keyboards with additional factory or user resources ability !

Sam CA · Post by **Sam CA** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:03 pm

Frans N wrote:You forget the Korg PA 588 and probably soon the PA688. Even better for a pianist.

I think this topic is about the new Roland top/flagship arranger keyboard being a possible contender. All the keyboards that you've listed so far are either workstation (totally off topic) or lower end arranger models. So let's try again.

Roland just released the BK9 as their best arranger ever produced. Now, can you try comparing that with a PA3x or Tyros 4, Audya... , not krome,pa50sd,kross, 88 keys midi controller...

Frans N · Post by **Frans N** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:45 pm

So you think the Roland BK 9 is a flagship arranger? With those tiny non touch screen screens no sample option no semi weighted keys no full synth options, no aftertouch etc etc.

As far I can see the Roland is the lower end arranger with a high end price.

Sam CA · Post by **Sam CA** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:07 pm

Frans N wrote:So you think the Roland BK 9 is a flagship arranger? With those tiny non touch screen screens no sample option no semi weighted keys no full synth options, no aftertouch etc etc.

As far I can see the Roland is the lower end arranger

Franz, you really got this twisted now! Look, it's very simple. Roland claims, BK-9 is their new flagship arranger keyboard, and pretty much the only serious arranger keyboard they've produced in years:

http://www.rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=bk-9

Yamaha, Ketron and Korg have their own flagship arranger keyboards as well, right? Now, this discussion is about comparing BK-9 (Roland Flagship keyboard) to other flagship arranger keyboards. Hope this helped!

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:34 pm

Roland just published 12 audio demos from the BK-9:

https://soundcloud.com/rolandcom

The ones with a "keyboard player icon" are from the BK-9.

These demos - and especially number 11, called "Supernatural Trumpet&Guitar" - qualify the BK-9 as a major league player.

fResH_ · Post by **fResH_** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:49 pm

well the drumkits sounded better then KORGs for sure

Fransman · Post by **Fransman** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:45 pm

fResH_ wrote:well the drumkits sounded better then KORGs for sure

I also like them a lot. Guitars and synths sound great also.
Overall it sounds very, very good and 'live'. Not as polished as a Yam.
A bit more polished than Korg, a bit 'cleaner' also, but I like it.
NO, I like it a LOT!

But I wouldn't want to trade it for my PA800: no internal speakers, no touch screen, no sampler...

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:50 pm

Fransman wrote:But I wouldn't want to trade it for my PA800: no internal speakers, no touch screen, no sampler...

They are good reasons, and certainly the lack of internal speakers is a drawback for home use, but probably an advantage for gigging since external speakers are needed, and for me with injured back, the weight of internal speakers is an issue.

The lack of touch screen is also a disadvantage as is lack of color. This is recompensed by the fact you can have a wired or wireless interface to an iPad and use the BK-Partner software for the touch interface. Since I have an iPad already, this is not a disadvantage for me. Understandably, the iPad capability is an unwarranted extra cost by anyone not already owning an iPad.

Saying "no sampler" is not correct. This is a new feature on the BK-9 that was not available on earlier BK-series products. Roland announced their intention to release new sounds but none are available yet.

There is a large style library available at extra cost from Roland, over 150 collections of styles are available, you can listen to them here, though the recordings at the link below were done on a BK-7m and the sounds on the BK-9 are improved by comparison with the BK-7m:

http://rolandcontent.com/music-styles/i ... dule.html/

The availability of a huge manufacturer-supported high-quality style library is the clincher for me. Korg have never produced or encouraged a market for a commercial style library, in fact they have done the opposite and made it almost impossible (by lack of technical enablers) for such a market to flourish. This is the biggest drawback of Korg arranger products when comparing them with either Roland or Yamaha similar products.

On the Roland BK-9 series you can very easily configure and manage a library of expansion styles. This is not the case with any Korg arranger and is the primary reason I am selling my Pa2x and will not buy a Pa3x.

I always valued the 76-note keyboard on my Pa1x and then the Pa2x, and I put up with the other style and sound management drawbacks ... until an alternative 76-key arranger was available. And now with the BK-9 the enablers are in place to make the change.

The upper octave of the 76-note keyboard is put to very good use in its capability to trigger audio loops which are instantly loaded from USB with no delay. This capability is not present on Korg arrangers.

AntonySharmman · Post by **AntonySharmman** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:08 am

Yes , this is indeed a decent demo to review my opinion !!!
I do not give a dime about demo sequencer arrangements as styles , since this is a well known trick to fool you ,
even about synth and wave variations since it's a piece of cake for developers, but the vintage and classic factory
sound library is crystal clear that can not be denied !

- Drumkits ... fair enough ! Any Kind of style DKs , coming close to industrial VSTi.
I have followed exactly this philosophy in my commercial Ram resources !
- Guitars ... If not multiple playback articulations and played real time , then just awesome ...
All kinds of my Guitar developments and strumming in Kronos almost seems to be included there !!!
Still keep my reservations until see them played real time in BK-9 !

I do not have more info yet for other instruments , but as far , this factory library seems to be the most reliable
library I ever listened from factory resources of any arranger we know till now !

BUT ... If these SuperNATURAL sounds (we probably listened from demos) are real playing audio files of time and
pitch stretched loops , then my excitement will be disappointing temporary , and in that case comparison
can be made only with Audya , and definitely out of my demands !

Specs digging and keyboard exploring will show up !

tommy1340millar · Post by **tommy1340millar** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:37 am

I'll let you all know next week!
I'm buying one. I don't NEED it, I just WANT it!!

Reuben · Post by **Reuben** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:32 am

Rob,
Don't write off the Pa3x just yet. I'm finding the sounds very very satisfying compared to the old 1x (not sure how they compare to the 2x). I would really miss the vocal effects and harmonizer if I had the BK-9.
Here's a little sample of what it can do. I downloaded a midi file a couple of days ago, taught myself the piano part, remixed it a bit and just made this mp3 a few moments ago. Nothing too professional but boy those sounds and vocal harmonizer are useful.
Here's the mp3:https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4_6p-M ... sp=sharing
John

Dikikeys · Post by **Dikikeys** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:46 am

Thought I'd drop in here to clear a bit up, and give you my thoughts.

Firstly, yes, I had misread about the User Tones BK9 feature. You will be able to load in new sounds, but rather than the Korg, compare this feature to Yamaha's Sound Pak's... Completely proprietary, you can't load in your own stuff, and what Roland sells will be all there is (at whatever price Roland decide on). So, advantage Korg, albeit at the cost of formidable complexity to do it! Sometimes, the 'closed' route is the easiest, IF it fits your needs...

Secondly, at nearly half the price of the 76 PA3x, let's stop trying to measure them against each other! Yes, Roland is touting it as their 'flagship', but that's only because they have stopped making TOTL arrangers altogether. The BK9 will be more fairly compared with the PA900(76), when it arrives (if they make a 76). Let's also not forget... 21 lbs! Half the weight... This 76 is lighter than most 61's!

I have a BK7m, a friend has a PA3x61 and BK5, I can do some fairly informed sound comparisons. For the price, the drums and bass basic rhythm section on the Roland is on a par with the Korg. Better in some areas, a hair worse in other. But take the price difference into account, pretty impressive. And the BK9 adds a LOT of new drum kits (some from the SRX cards) and basses.

SuperNatural and DNC are both technologies in their infancy. IMO, compared to some of the better SA2 voices from Yamaha, they still have a ways to go. But at least they have started! I saw a demo (Ralf Schink, I think) doing some chorded and lead jazz guitar on the same voice. The SuperNatural stuff was turning the chords into strums and not messing with the lead stuff (he was doing it all with one hand)... I don't think I've seen that before.

We still both prefer the Roland Grand Pianos... While the Korg has got better (much better!), these Roland pianos are warm, detailed, dynamic and there is a good selection. They don't get tinny and shrill like the Yamaha's do, think Steinway vs. Yamaha... I'll take a nice warm Steinway any day! But enough about patches... one man's meat is another man's poisson!

The most new feature on the BK9 (the Chord Sequencer is an old one!) is the audio loops. 7 keys at the top of the keyboard can toggle audio loops on and off. Only one at a time, mind you. But tempo synced. MP3's or wave/aiff (Roland say that MP3 tax the processor more than wav/aiff). Again, the Korg is undeniably more powerful here, but the ease of use might go to Roland. How many of you use audio loops on the multipads (outside of the Middle East, etc.)? Roland make this so easy, you might just go ahead and use it..! They DO load up with the Performance, so gig-handy. Plenty of one-shot options, too, for remix and DJ type use.

The manual is up already, time to dig in and see what you find.

But, all in all, it's apples and oranges. The two don't compare, feature wise, price wise or weight wise! I'd say, listen to one when they ship, see what YOU think. I'm just glad we have BOTH to choose from.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:13 pm

................ DNC are both technologies in their infancy. IMO, compared to some of the better SA2 voices from Yamaha,

Sorry - totally disagree - having owned and played Tyros and PAs at the same time.
SA sounds on Yamaha are definitely OK if you don't want control.... DNC is definitely as good and in fact, better, at least because you have COMPLETE control.
I hated the Tyros "gliding" SA sax notes when it felt like it.

DNC on PA3X is at a different level to PA2X - try it to its fullest - quite amazing - surprised me as I assumed it was just going to be similar to PA2X.

Cheers

Pete

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:38 pm

Hi Diki,

Thank you very much for clarifying a number of questions. It's great that the user manuals for the BK-9 are available (as of yesterday) here:

http://www.roland.com/support/article/?q=manuals&p=BK-9

Yesterday, I placed an order for my BK-9 which is conditional on the shop selling my Pa2x. I've used a Roland KF-90 for a number of years in church, and the piano and organ sounds are really good, although the arranger facilities on that model are pretty minimal. I always wanted piano sounds on the Pa-series that were as good as the pianos on the KF-90. I never succeeded - although the one I made with James' samples (the Irish Grand) came close - and is the one I use on the Pa2x most of the time. I like what I hear from the BK-9, and it will suit my needs better than the Pa-series.

With Roland's rhythm composer and the iPad BK-partner software it will be much quicker for me to prepare new styles and configurations for songs than on the Pa2x. I like the fact that styles can be prepared with ritardando and accelerando and also fade in / fade out, these features lacking on the Pa-series.

Time will tell how cost-effective Roland's "sound packs" for the BK-9 will be. Although there are no sound packs available yet, I can see that the style packs for the BK-family are very good value and will work with the BK-9. I expect that Roland will want independent sound engineers to be able to develop good sounds for them. Maybe the details will be published in some kind of advanced user guide in future.

Anyway, can I join as a member on the Roland Arranger Forums for which you are an Admin? It's probably best that I stop writing about the BK-9 on Korg Forums, and that I start to contribute on your forum instead.

Best regards,
Rob

miden · Post by **miden** » Thu May 09, 2013 5:51 pm

karmathanever wrote: Wow for the first time I am feeling better about Aussie prices.
The PA3X-76 is much cheaper here and you could get a Kronos-61 for less than the BK-9

Hmmmm... I guess it is pointless comparing pricing really - all the import duties and taxes drives everyone mad...

The Australian dollar is quite strong right now but if it wasn't, I don't think I would even own a keyboard - only a short while back we were paying almost double the dollars of USA prices.
PA2Xpro going for $7999 RRP at that time...

If the strange rumours regarding a "new" Yamaha arranger are true then it will be interesting to see if Yamaha have at last put some real effort into design - in fact I hope it is a total re-design.

BK-9 has its place but I couldn't even consider it even as an "extension" of styles - just doesn't have that professional authentic edge like the PA3X/600

Pete

BK-9 will RRP in Oz at c. $2800 Pete

Dennis