Creating a Cymbal Roll on Kronos

danmusician · Post by **danmusician** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:12 pm

I'm sequencing pit music for a musical. Any tips for creating a convincing cymbal roll on the Kronos?

xp50player · Post by **xp50player** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:47 pm

there may be a better idea, but here goes. I started with F90 House Kit and found 2 adjacent cymbal crashes G4/A4.

Changed Amp1 EG Attack Time to 40.
Changed Filter1 Mod velocity intensity to 40.
Set Filter1 Frequency to 60.

firstlovedan · Post by **firstlovedan** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:22 pm

Sometimes I find it helpful to slow the tempo down and then record the roll. This allows you to control the speed of your roll, and the velocity. This works especially well when you need a crescendo. Doing so allows the crescendo to increase more evenly. One word of caution when doing this, sometimes you can make your rolls more unrealisticaly fast. Keep in mind that the whole point of recording your roll with a slower tempo is to help you have more control. After recording, go back to your normal tempo and listen to it. If My recording is at 120 bpm, my rule of thumb is to record my roll at about 80 bpm. BTW, this works great for timpani rolls as well!
Firstlovedan

xp50player · Post by **xp50player** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:32 pm

A cymbal roll is a sustained sound and the point is not to hear the individual strokes. The speed of the roll should only be as fast as required to create a sustained sound, increasing slightly at higher dynamics. Cymbal roll speed doesn't vary with tempo and maybe be unnatural if you record at a slower tempo than playback.

danmusician · Post by **danmusician** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:06 am

xp50player wrote:A cymbal roll is a sustained sound and the point is not to hear the individual strokes. The speed of the roll should only be as fast as required to create a sustained sound, increasing slightly at higher dynamics. Cymbal roll speed doesn't vary with tempo and maybe be unnatural if you record at a slower tempo than playback.

I've never been able to convincingly recreate this effect on a keyboard. I feel like I can always hear the individual strokes. I'm curious if anyone has created a patch or has a technique to pull it off.

synthskier · Post by **synthskier** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:20 am

Find a looped cymbal sample. Use only the loop. Lower the amp and the lowpass filter cutoff, but use the joystick to increase both. Give it a long release time. Maybe add reverb. Maybe EQ some of the mids out.

To execute the roll in real time, simply hold one key down and push the joystick forward. Keep it forward when you lift your finger off the key.

danmusician · Post by **danmusician** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:34 am

synthskier wrote:Find a looped cymbal sample. Use only the loop. Lower the amp and the lowpass filter cutoff, but use the joystick to increase both. Give it a long release time. Maybe add reverb. Maybe EQ some of the mids out.

To execute the roll in real time, simply hold one key down and push the joystick forward. Keep it forward when you lift your finger off the key.

Thanks. I'll give that a try. I suppose I should have mentioned I'm looking to do this is a sequence, not live.

JPWC · Post by **JPWC** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:37 am

sample your own roll.

danmusician · Post by **danmusician** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:05 pm

JPWC wrote:sample your own roll.

Tried that once. Requires a decent drummer and a decent instrument. My attempts ended up sounding crappy.

Anyone gotta a sample you'd like to share?

JPWC · Post by **JPWC** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:18 pm

http://www.sonivoxmi.com/freesamplespage.asp.

may not be to your liking, but about halve way down the page.

after doing a quick 2 minute search, you may be able to rip something from a youtube video that will sound ok.

good luck.

synthskier · Post by **synthskier** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:53 pm

danmusician wrote:Thanks. I'll give that a try. I suppose I should have mentioned I'm looking to do this is a sequence, not live.

As long as you can play one note, it'll work!

fclef · Post by **fclef** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:01 pm

I've usually had good luck using the step sequencer to record cymbal rolls. After recording the notes, I edit the velocities to get a smooth effect. You can get an interesting roll if you alternate two cymbal samples (such as C#4 and A4 on the Studio Standard program).

And for what it's worth: I've done MIDI tracks for a number of musicals and strive to create as effective an accompaniment as possible. However, don't sweat the small stuff - most audiences are watching the stage and are rarely listening carefully to what's going on in the pit (unless it's REALLY bad).

ashboe · Post by **ashboe** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:26 am

Well.....there's usually always SOMEONE just listening to the pit work instead of watching the stage...and they always feel compelled to come up in the interval to talk....

jg:: · Post by **jg::** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:42 am

xp50player and synthskier have essentially the same idea: getting rid of the attack portion of the cymbal helps to make the roll more consistent and realistic.

So, as xp50player suggests, create a new Program that contains your drumkit/cymbals of choice, and increase attack time to diminish the sound of the "hit". Perhaps mess with the filter, as he suggests. Save the Program somewhere, and use that Program just for the rolls. Quite easy, and saves messing around with new samples if you don't feel inclined to do that.

Combine it with recording at a slower tempo if you like.

And yes, this method also works well for Tymp rolls.