RS7000 / MC909 / MPC / ETC. What to supplement my ESX setup

[ProfessorNick]

Hello Everyone.

Please give me your input...

I have been doing my research, trying to get an idea for what hardware piece I should get to supplement my ESX setup. Basically I am looking for a Master Sequencer/ Sound Module/ possibly Sampler. I love my ESX, but there are a few limitations I would like to overcome:

• * I would like to be able to sequence external midi gear POLYPHONICALLY. (I have a sweet Korg DSS-1 sitting here, which does great pads that I wish I could sequence, or my 12-bit drum kits, but I can only sequence monophonically on the ESX.)
  * Velocity sensitivity, and recording of velocity information, preferably onboard, but if I need to use an external midi keyboard, so-be-it.

With this Master Sequencer unit, I could drive my external devices and have them be sampled by the ESX, so I might not need a second Sampler, but what the heck. If there is a better all in one device, give me your input. I would still like:

• * Would love the ability to trigger an external midi device (like my DSS-1) and have the unit sample it at the same time. The ESX re-samples, but only the internal sounds, and does not seem to mix the external input into the mix.
  * If it is possible to trigger an external midi device and record it in real time, it would be sweet to have the device auto-truncate the sample based on the tempo. This is where I like the idea of, dare I say Ableton, is nice because you can have it automatically start sampling at the downbeat of a bar and end at the downbeat of another bar. The MC909 has a feature that allows you to tell the unit what tempo your loop is and it will auto-chop the length for you, but I don't know if it can sample while it's sequencer plays.
  * x0x style and realtime recording, plus quantize input.

Other things it needs to have are:

• * Realtime control of parameters which can be recorded into the sequence.
  * Multiple audio outs would be good
  * Somewhat simple, less than 20 button pushes to record a sequence interface

I know there must be a holy grail of grooveboxes out there. The MC909 seems well endowed, but bulky and probably has a cumbersome interface. The MPC is not really my thing, but seems like many people use them as centerpieces. I am unfamiliar with the RS7000 and other yamaha grooveboxes.

Any help would be great. (I have even tried getting behind Ableton, but it seems unresponsive, convoluted, uninspiring and too customizable. After mapping knobs to my ESX, I still can't get a satisfactory sequence recorded quickly, plus the automation only works in the arrange window and acts funny. )

Cheers,
Nick

[sauce]

The ESX re-samples, but only the internal sounds, and does not seem to mix the external input into the mix.

This is totally untrue.. I am not sure where you are having problems, but if you have sound coming through it should be sampled along with the internal sampling.

* If it is possible to trigger an external midi device and record it in real time, it would be sweet to have the device auto-truncate the sample based on the tempo. This is where I like the idea of, dare I say Ableton, is nice because you can have it automatically start sampling at the downbeat of a bar and end at the downbeat of another bar. The MC909 has a feature that allows you to tell the unit what tempo your loop is and it will auto-chop the length for you, but I don't know if it can sample while it's sequencer plays.

This is where the pricey-but-capable Elektron Octatrack shines on! In lieu of this, I use an EH2880 to sample loops from external gear.. It has MIDI clock so there is no drift.

All-in-all, I have used many things to sequence along with my ESX. Currently I have a Yamaha RM1X, which is the younger-brother of the RS7000. The sequencer in these are beast. Also, have you considered an MPC 1000 with JJOS2XL? Google or YouTube it and see what you think!

[Olivander12]

Why not Ableton? As midi master, it does a great job with external hardware....

I would not recommend a MPC. Its user interface is compared to the Electribe's pure bullshit, capable but way to complicated. Step Edit is a frustrating procedure as the screen is very tiny and does not offer a real graphical interface.

[ProfessorNick]

Sauce,

How did I miss the resampling of both internal and external sounds? Man I've been missing out.

So I'm imagining that if I sent all my internal sounds to output 3/4 momentarily I could sample in a keyboard riff which I play along with the esx. Of course I'll need to have an external mixer to hear both at the same time.

Ive also discovered a nice sample calculator online which helps me know exactly how long a particular sample should be so, in a way I can edit the sample length to "x" based on the tempo of the song. Them I can use the loop in a drum part without having to stretch or slice it.

Cheers,
Nick[/list]

[robosardine]

Be careful- a few things to look into 1) The RS 7000- you cannot tee up your pattern changes when improvising- ie ask it to play a certain pattern next then wait for it to follow on- there is a pattern 'quantize' feature (max 4 beats I think- or less) where you have to be there to play it almost in real time- also the internal synth sounds are very poor/dull. 2) The MC909 has a pattern sustain bug- as does the MC808 & MC307- but not the MC303 or MC505- where when you change patterns ALL sounds - delays, echo, reverb, cymbals etc are terminated totally- preventing a smooth transition of patterns- especially if long delays are used.

[Electromachines]

Apart from a pc running a DAW, i think the MC909 is simply the best machine by miles for sequencing other hardware. I found it has a steep learning curve (compared with Electribes) but it is a different beast alltogether.The ESX is my main sampler purely for ease but the mc909 is quite capable.It can sample/re-sample/re-sample with mix(the esx CAN do this) and auto chop etc...and can sample an input that it triggers via midi(so can the esx)
The resolution is 480 tpqn... so lots of scope for quantize settings and groove/swing options, and of course it can all be snapped to the grid.

As robosardine says... there is a sustain bug but i have only ever noticed this glitch with extreme effect settings.
Sample storage via smart media but it has usb for dragging files from your pc.

[neotechtonics]

If you're battling with the amount of sample time available on the ESX you're not going to be terribly pleased with the MC909 in that regard unless it has a memory upgrade... even then its not the greatest. But I can say without a doubt that it is an absolute BEAST of a groovebox. My mate ran his EMX's thru the MC909s compressor in his last gig...banging! If you aren't planning on using alot of long samples and are looking for principally a sequencer but also a great standalone groovebox the MC909 is the right choice... unfortunately it only has ONE midi out/thru. And my limited experience of the midi filtering/settings etc was a nightmare.

if you're looking for a 'central command station' for sequencing multiple pieces of hardware I'd say rather have a look at the MPC1000 or MPC2500
but these are not nearly as capable as the MC909 in terms of all-round performance. (sampling/synth/drums/sequencer)

[P-E]

I'd like to give a huge +1 to the Octatrack:
- superb MIDI sequencing with polyphony: got it.
- live recording of velocity: not sure... but editing steps is really quick and easy
- trigger MIDI and sample at the same time: can do.
- auto-truncate sample: you can set a fixed recording length, and if that's not enough there's a good graphic audio editor.
- automatically sample at a downbeat for a fixed duration: can do
- auto-slice samples: can do
- x0x sequencer, realtime recording, quantized (and unquantized) input: yes
- realtime control of parameters which can be recorded live: yes
- multiple audio out: yes
- simple to use: yes, but there is a learning curve.

Shall I add that basically all of what's mentioned above can be done without stopping the sequencer?

It's a bit expensive... but so is a MPC.

[Olivander12]

Hi guys,

I am somehow stuck and I would really appreciate any suggestions on how I may change this situation.

I have been using the Electribe EMX for mor than a year. It is cool, I spent about ten hours a week producing some tracks and there are some patterns I am totally proud of. It definetley makes a lot of fun creating these, and that is all that counts.

Nevertheless, the EMX limitations are also harming my creativity. I need samples badly, as well as chords and some new synths, but mostly samples.

Samples, from my point of view, have to be used with software. I know that most of you dislike PC's but for samples I think that Software is a must! So the ESX and the MPC, I tried them, are not going to help me!

I tried Ableton Live, which did not helped me at all, as its midi functions did not work with the EMX. Maschine from NI has a sequencer built it, but it it seems to be not working with the EMX...

So my questions is; does anybody of you knows a working setup with a sample sequencer slaved to a Electribe. Or is this not imposible?! Do I have to change to software completely? I simply want to sequence samples and then press start on my electribe so that these are played synched to it. Nothing more. The MPC and ESX worked bascially, but sample managment on these was nothing more than frustrating.

[P-E]

What couldn't you do with Ableton? I had no problem to have it sync'd to the EMX, to have Ableton sequence the EMX while using the EMX as a MIDI controller all at the same time... I haven't measured latency but it sounded okay to me.

[Olivander12]

What couldn't you do with Ableton? I had no problem to have it sync'd to the EMX, to have Ableton sequence the EMX while using the EMX as a MIDI controller all at the same time... I haven't measured latency but it sounded okay to me.

I want to use Ableton as midi slave, so that I can programm drums in Ableton which are then synched to my EMX. So that you press start on the Electribe, and the clip in Ableton starts. That does not work, as the BPM is unstable, drifts, and bumps up to 5 bpm after having pressed start. A tight drum which is perfectly in time with the EMX is not possible.

[sauce]

So my questions is; does anybody of you knows a working setup with a sample sequencer slaved to a Electribe.

The MIDI in Logic has always been rock-solid when used in sync with hardware. I have been using it for this purpose since the early 90's.

[Krog]

@sauce
Are you using an Electribe with Logic ?
I'm currently toying with the idea of putting the two together but having only just started using Logic I am still not up to speed with its finer points i.e. MIDI syncing to use the Electribe as a trigger to start recording within Logic etc. etc.

[Olivander12]

So my questions is; does anybody of you knows a working setup with a sample sequencer slaved to a Electribe.

The MIDI in Logic has always been rock-solid when used in sync with hardware. I have been using it for this purpose since the early 90's.

So it definitley works? Pressing "play" on the EMX starts Logic, tightly synched to the Electribe.

[sauce]

Yes, the MIDI in Logic is very, very solid; the latency will depend on the interface you use and the settings, as well as the specs of your machine. Any Mac from the last 10 years will be able to handle the sync perfectly. None of the issues that you experience with Ableton Live will be present when using Logic; no drift, no struggling of the sequencer to keep up.

Note: This is not to say that I prefer Logic over Live.. I am simply saying that the clock is much more stable. I believe Live to be the be-all and end-all of music programs, the most capable and advanced music software of all time!