What can i get out of a Kronos (and samplers in general)

[Dbe4l]

Hi all, this will probably be a long post as I have quite a few questions, so I will try to organize it as best as possible.

So I have had an M50 for the last two years, and also an acoustic grand for many years before that (mostly classically trained). When I first got the Korg I basically just played with the presets, but as I got to know it and how to work with sound synthesis I grew to love it, and still learn things everyday.

Well the time has come to move out of my parents giant house into a small apartment, and sadly I wont be able to take the 6 foot piano with me, plus I dont paly it nearly as often since i play more modern and electronic music than classical these days. So I sold it for $6000. And while I should be using that money for practical stuff I decided that I would devote it all to a new music setup. (I will also be trading in the m50)


So my main consideration has been a Kronos 88, mostly because its what ive done the most research on, and I loved my M50 so i figured it would be a good step up, plus its newer and more advanced than most other workstations on the market.

But of course I'll have money to spare, and I'm trying to decide how much of this to put into a PA/Studio monitor setup versus getting any additional synths. I want to get some nice speakers, but also want to be able to make whatever sounds i want so i need to know what the limitations of teh Kronos are in case i want any other types of hardware.


So first thing is, I play mostly for fun. Just like to sit at home and tinker around, and make the occasional youtube video (I do mostly covers/remixes). And I also play in a band where we play occasional shows for friends just for fun. So I'm not a composer/producer that much. I've toyed with the thought of just getting a good MIDI controller and buying really nice DAWs/VSTs, etc, but I think this just wont work well for my purposes.

But i foresee myself wanting to play a lot of live electronic dance music and am just wonering what the Kronos will allow me to do in sound creation compared to a software set up.

Ive listened to all the demo vids i can and played a Kronos a bit at mny local Guitar Center, and one thing i can say is that although, many things are very impressive, it just sounds a bit "cheesy", or like elevator music, whenever i hear the synthy sounds.

Now playing the Fantom, and the Motif (just running through the presets), they seem a lot edgier, and stronger. And i want to know is it just that the presets in teh Kronos are a bit weaker/underdeveloped, or does it simply not have the same processing ability in the sound engine.


Another question i have is about sampling. Ive never used a sampler before, and only understand them a little bit. Lets say i have a certain sound want, for instance the lead here at 35 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q9rewnLFYw

but simply cant get it on the Kronos. But perhaps it can be created on a program like Massive. Is it possible to create it on teh computer and then sample it and load it in teh Kronos and have it sound pretty much the same, adn then go on to add other effects, etc or does it not really work that way? Any thoughts on whether that sounds could be recreated fairly faithfully using the engines in the Kronos or is it not up to the challenge?

For instance, the lead guitar sounds in teh kronos are a weak point for me and many others. What is to prevent us from sampling a guitar-specific VST and then using that on teh Kronos? I guess i dont know much about this so someone weill have to show me where my thinking is wrong.

Also, for the sequencer, i know that you can put in audio tracks. So could I load an mp3 of a song that i have on my computer onto the SD card, or usb or whever, and th have it play in teh kronos (like a backing track) while i play over top of it?

Could i splice it up add effects, etc, basically making it like a live DJ station, where i can trigger different sequences on the spot with certain keys and buttons?

Any suggestions of what the best setup would be for my purposes? Is the kronos a good enough all in one, or should i also buy a smaller synth as well, like a R3, Electribe, etc.


Another thing that im interested in buying but dont know if it actually exists: is there any kind of way to hook up several expression pedal at once for when i want to modualte a lot of things in realy time independently but also want to use both hands? Like a midi controller that instead of having sliders, has several pedals that you can use with your feet?

Thanks for your time!

[Dbe4l]

I just re-read through this and realize it may be a bit confusing. For instance, when i play the violin sound on the Kronos, its okay, not great, not horrible. But whne i listen to the violin sounds that you can download through the webiste (i think its like 250$ for the whole download) it sounds amazing.

So as muchn as i like the kronos it sometimnes seems a bit underwhelming, but then i find that it can be truly amazing whne time and effort is put into it. So when i listen to the electro house and dubstep sample of the Nu electro sound library, the sound pretty good, but not as good as anything ive ever heard professionally done. Is this just cause more time would need to be spent on them, or is it too hard to make that kind of stuff on this type of synth versus a computer?

[SanderXpander]

1. I think the Kronos is way ahead of the Fantom and Motif especially in the synth department, seeing as those two only have sample based sounds, and no true VA like at least three engines in the Kronos. BUT tastes differ so if you dislike the Kronos sounds, by all means, don't buy it. Synth programming wise it has a LOT more to offer than the alternatives from Roland and Yamaha though.

2. No you can't hook up multiple expression pedals to the Kronos directly, you can however get a more advanced midi foot controller which may have multiple expression pedals (Behringer FCB1010 or the Roland alternative).

3. You can't load MP3s. You can load WAVS or AIFFs. You can't really alter and loop and cut them much in real time though, it sounds like you might be interested in more serious DJing software such as Traktor, Serrato, or perhaps Ableton.

4. I would put at least $1000 aside for good monitor speakers. If your room is not very big, it doesn't really make sense to go for a sub, but e.g. some DynAudios, Adams or KRKs in that range should give you a decent amount of low and a very accurate mix image. Get some good headphones too while you're at it, there's a recent thread in this forum somewhere with good suggestions on those.

5. Yes it's possible to sample any sounds you can think of and use these in the Kronos. The main issue is the amount of time and effort it takes to get something very playable. I occasionally sample hits or leads if I really need them but I rarely bother looping them or doing them keyboard wide cause for me it's just not worth the effort. If you're not looking to exactly replicate something but are just looking for powerful new sounds it's probably better to invest more time in understanding e.g. AL1 and MOD7 in the Kronos. Or just buying more sounds from the experts.

6. I don't think you should buy a "smaller" synth, especially not an R3 or Electribe. While the Electribe has arguably some live functionality that the Kronos lacks, with the R3 you would basically get an underpowered version of ONE of Kronos' nine engines.
If you find any real "gaps" in the Kronos for your purposes, it sounds like it might be in some sound areas such as guitars (Motif has often been named as having really good ones) or in some live DJing functionality - in which case a good PC and Ableton/Traktor might be a good solution.

Just all my personal opinion on what you said.

[MarPabl]

Check this tutorial about sampling with the Korg Kronos: Korg Kronos Tutorial: 04 Sampling Omnisphere in the Kronos Sampler

I think you can use RPPR for your DJ station functionality. Check this tutorial: Korg M3- RPPR Patterns- In The Studio With Korg

If you want a great synth for electronic dance music, check the Access Virus TI which is generally considered the best "VA" available. BTW they have delivered today an update to the OS (5.0 public beta) adding great features. Access is recognized for a long term support for their synths, and those updates are not just to bug fixes, but they keep adding great features each time. With this update, even the guys who bought the synth on 2005 will be benefited. I really love mine and I think it's makes a great team with the Kronos. However, this is a synth (no sequencer, no sampling, "just" programming great sounds) and therefore you'll lose the workstation capabilities you have with Kronos.

[Dbe4l]

1. Yes I agree with you I suppose, if i were to compare the presets of the M50 to some of the one created on my own, theres a big difference, so i suppose the kronos would be the same. Also, i remember reading that you have to load a lot of patches in each time you turn it on? So would that mean that the one i used in the store may not have had all the sounds banks available filled? Cause it just seemed liek it was really low on presets compared to yamaha and roland.

2. Yes, thats exactly what i was looking for, thank you! And as far as midi goes, does there exist a midi-router or whatever youn would call it? So that you could hook up multiple midi devices at once each on different channel since theres only a single input on the korg?

3. I see, yeah im probaby not gonna do any dj-ing, but was just curious. So does that mean if i cant use mp3, ill never be able to sample anything from a downloaded song or a cd?

4. I have good headphones already (sony 7509hd) but i agree about getting good monitors. I have a Roland kc-550 amp but for sonme reason it doesnt sound very good. its loud but loses a lot of quality, so i assume the monitors will be better in that respect? Thing is i also would like to get some good loudspeakers and a mix for the band. But i'll only have about $2000 for monitors and PA, so i might have to cut that til later.

5. I see. so its just a lot of time and effort. I guess in all the tutorials and demos i have heard of electronica music, i just havent found anything thats as hard and gritty as what is made using computer software. So hopefully thats just cause people havent done it yet and not that it cant be done. Are there any sound libraries other then the ones on the official korg page?

6. Yeah, i agree cause thats a thusand bucks for something thats only a marginal difference that i could be putting toward the speakers for better sound. And someday when i get a laptop ill probably invest in a DAW so that i can do the things i need to.



Marpabl.

Thanks for the link, thats pretty cool though it looks complicated. But basically any sound that can be made in a vst can be put into teh kronos with enough work? hopefully there are more tutorials like this somewhere.

And thanks for the tip about rppr. that was one thing i never really got into with teh m50 but always wished i understood.

And i checked some vids for the virus, it sounds pretty nice. Maybe after ive had the kronos for a few months ill check into something like that. It may be a bit overwhelminbg to try to learn two keybaords at once for now though.

[SanderXpander]

Yes anything that makes sound you can sample and use. It's just that there's a big difference between sampling a hit and sampling e.g. a piano on multiple velocity levels. A synth sound (with no fx) should be ok to do across the range of the keyboard, assuming you can get the loop point(s) right, which takes time and luck.

Not being able to use mp3s doesn't mean you can't use downloaded or ripped stuff. In the case of a cd, you just tell your computer to rip to WAV instead. With downloaded stuff you could either use a free file format converter or play back the file and simply record it in the Kronos. Try to avoid mp3s as they, by definition, degrade the sound.

As for speakers, yeah decent studio monitors will massively improve the sound over your KC550. It might be possible to get relatively high-end PA speakers and use them also for basic mixing, but you said you were moving to a small apartment so I don't think you'd really want them in the house at all times. Not to mention having to unplug and pack them everytime you rehearse or gig.

Yes, there are more sound "libraries" available, made by users. Check this site (www.korgforums.com), there's a download section, and there's also www.korgpatches.com.

You don't have to reload any sounds when you boot the Kronos. It has 20 banks of 128 presets with "program" style sounds and 14 banks of "combi" type sounds. From the factory, 3 combi banks are filled and like 12 of the 20 combi banks. If you want, these are very easily and quickly filled with downloaded presets. The Kronos will remember those if you do it right.

[Shakil]

Y
You don't have to reload any sounds when you boot the Kronos. It has 20 banks of 128 presets with "program" style sounds and 14 banks of "combi" type sounds. On booting, 3 combi banks are filled and like 12 of the 20 combi banks. If you want, these are very easily and quickly filled with downloaded presets.

You do have to load sampling data for the programs that use samples.

[SanderXpander]

No you can set these to autoload.