Never enough banks - v1.5 Fixes This!!

[Teh Mick]

I agree, on the other hand, just wipe one bank and load it separately when you need it. If necessary you can check with my app what is used or what you want to move.

Mac version considered yet?

I could take care of that

[Shakil]

I never understood why there can't be more preset and user banks on any given instrument. Are there expensive memory limitations in the hard- and software?

For example, if the Kronos had double the amount of available banks, would it be so much more expensive that it wouldn't be viable?..

Maybe Dan or Jerry could shed some light on this?

Technically, KRONOS has lot more user banks than any other Synth or workstation. And unlimited number of programs through disk mode as RonF mentioned.

[curvebender]

Technically, KRONOS has lot more user banks than any other Synth or workstation. And unlimited number of programs through disk mode as RonF mentioned.

I have an Oasys, so I am aware of auditioning sounds via disk mode. (It's a great feature, but it's not a substitute for a "real" bank.)

I would still like to know the reasons for not increasing the number of banks on the Kronos compared to the Oasys.

[RonF]

I don't use synths for Studio / composing purposes (yet), however I can imagine one uses one PCG per song or per project. Just load the new PCG when a new project starts and save it with the on board sequencer or put it in the same folder as the PC/Mac sequencer work directory for that project.

Also backups are much easier this way.

Of course you are 100% correct. I also just create a "bank-per-project"....its so easy to load and save individual banks. Now, with Set List Mode....a "set list per project" is the likely best overall solution, all contained in (referencing) a single PCG+seq.

[RonF]

I have an Oasys, so I am aware of auditioning sounds via disk mode. (It's a great feature, but it's not a substitute for a "real" bank.)

I guess that depends on what you are trying to do. The way I see it...Program mode is an edit mode. Its really there for deep editing of Programs. In disc mode, you can use this as a "Program Play mode". Granted, in disc mode the effects default to the last program in "Program Mode" your were using....so I simply created a Program which contains a general effects template that I like, which is very much like a combi or seq, effects-wise. So I first load up my "template" (into a single slot in Program mode) then move to Disc mode where I can run though hundreds (virtually unlimited) banks of programs to play.

Now if you think about it....the reason most people are concerned about having more program banks...is so they can edit, manipulate, and save *programs*....but don't want to interfere with Combi references to program banks. So this concern is mostly focused on having access to *play* customized/edited versions of programs.....and in this regard, using disc mode as a "program play mode" is very functional. If by chance there are complex effects routings that a particular program relies upon (beyond the template that I created earlier), then I have simply initialized ONE "unnecessary" program in both an HD1 bank and in an EXi bank, and use these two locations as my "master program play slot"... this then becomes the location to quickly load any program (from disc mode) to edit it further, with its "native" effects routings. Once I am done, I just load my "initialized effects template" again back into those two slots, and go back to disc mode to play some more. Of course nothing, therefore, is interfering with combi references, or the default factory banks on my Kronos.

Of course you have all options available to you at any time....but with a little thought about your *work flow* you realize that these resources are available to you on Kronos, and that nothing is really inhibiting you at all. Part of what I love about workstation keyboards in general is finding these kinds of on board work flow methods, that allow for results not commonly known, nor spelled out in such detail in the manual.

[afr]

I mean that for me, but is just my point of view 8 GM banks are a non sense

I'd like to be free to save it my own programs

Mixing HD and EXI programs on the same bank probably is not possible due to the structure of the sound engine architecture's

I-G (HD-1) = Prefilled with GM patches.

I'd love to utilize all those unwanted GM banks.

A serious company Korg
selling a professional Workstation Kronos
at a not indifferent price 3.000$

should give the possibility to any user to customize the memory location as they want

I hope in some Op.Sys upgrade that allow this feature

You mean by mixing HD and EXI programs within one bank?
I agree, on the other hand, just wipe one bank and load it separately when you need it. If necessary you can check with my app what is used or what you want to move. People would also have complained if their would be too many empty banks probably.

[Megakazbek]

Sometimes I have a feeling that Korg engineers stuck somewhere in 60's and don't realize that design of user experience has moved forward a lot since then.
I can't believe they (and, to be fair, other keyboard companies too) still use this bank system in 2011.
There is no sense to limit amount of sounds in a bank to 128, or even limiting amount of banks themselves. There is no sense to store them in memory, SSD is just as fine. There is no sense in forcing banks to HD-1 or EXi. There is no sense in making GM bank fixed and unchangeable. And these aren't even technical limitations (actually, Korg already has perfect tool for implementation of banks in Kronos, and it's called Linux file system; they just don't use it at all and for some reason prefer to reinvent the wheel), they are simply poor design choices. I really hope that it would be possible to fix some of them in future updates.

[qfingers]

Sometimes I have a feeling that Korg engineers stuck somewhere in 60's and don't realize that design of user experience has moved forward a lot since then.
I can't believe they (and, to be fair, other keyboard companies too) still use this bank system in 2011.
There is no sense to limit amount of sounds in a bank to 128, or even limiting amount of banks themselves. There is no sense to store them in memory, SSD is just as fine. There is no sense in forcing banks to HD-1 or EXi. There is no sense in making GM bank fixed and unchangeable. And these aren't even technical limitations (actually, Korg already has perfect tool for implementation of banks in Kronos, and it's called Linux file system; they just don't use it at all), they are simply poor design choices. I really hope that it would be possible to fix some of them in future updates.

No offense, but I think you are sadly mistaken here. First, if the Kronos was an "island", then you'd be correct. But because keyboards interface to each other via MIDI and the requirements for MIDI patch changes messages is 128, this is why they use it. MIDI also has support for bank change messages. Which is why all manufactures choose this format: everyone understands it and it's a standard. You can argue that MIDI needs to be replaced, but that is a different discussion, and not what is current. This is why the bank system is still used and will be used for the foreseeable future.

q

[Megakazbek]

Is Set List mode controllable via MIDI?
I think, for external MIDI control, mode like Set List is all that needed.

Anyway, I think it is better to improve the bank system and then solve the problems like with MIDI control that arise from that improvement rather than don't improve it at all by using the excuse that it leads to some problems you don't want to solve.

[danatkorg]

I can't believe they (and, to be fair, other keyboard companies too) still use this bank system in 2011.
There is no sense to limit amount of sounds in a bank to 128,

MIDI Program Change.

or even limiting amount of banks themselves.

Memory management & hardware integration.

There is no sense to store them in memory, SSD is just as fine.

Latency.

There is no sense in forcing banks to HD-1 or EXi.

I agree, although it's not simple to change.

There is no sense in making GM bank fixed and unchangeable.

GM standard.

[BasariStudios]

Yeah, we're all idiots.

Dan, i dont think we mean that...i wrote about this long ago on the KRONOS
but people thought i was crazy (of course the ones that dont know hell about
Synth or Synthezis), i was ignored by Korg Staff...now i am asking you a simple
question:
How the HELL should i menage my Sounds with only one User Bank?
YES! I will repeat, a User Bank cuz thats what it is, we need 2 of those.
Forget that you work for Korg for a minute, just simply as a Kronos User
tell me a workaround...of course, dont tell me to erase Factory Stuff please
and yes, i repeat, Factory Sounds cuz thats what it is...
And yes...its a 3000$ machine.

[danatkorg]

now i am asking you a simple
question:
How the HELL should i menage my Sounds with only one User Bank?
YES! I will repeat, a User Bank cuz thats what it is, we need 2 of those.
Forget that you work for Korg for a minute, just simply as a Kronos User
tell me a workaround...of course, dont tell me to erase Factory Stuff please
and yes, i repeat, Factory Sounds cuz thats what it is...
And yes...its a 3000$ machine.

As others have also suggested, I save and load PCG files on disk. Typically I use one per project. It's easy and fast.

- Dan

[cello]

Got to agree with Dan here - it's all about how and what you save.

I 'save all' by project name (or number). I then put that reference into a database on the PC which holds any notation and/or midi files as well - along with 'engineering' notes re sounds. mix, settings, etc.

But I would recommend you all read the many, many threads in the OASYS section on file management since 2005! There are some good solutions in there which can be adapted / tweaked to how you want to work.

[Broadwave]

But I would recommend you all read the many, many threads in the OASYS section on file management since 2005! There are some good solutions in there which can be adapted / tweaked to how you want to work.

I am indebted to all the Oasys users who have gone before us, and I do indeed spend much of my time reading the threads on the Oasys forum, as it's answered many queries I've had on the Kronos.

[jimknopf]

I get by with the present situation, as described above.

But the one problem that is NOT solved this way is that you won't have access to all available factory combis as soon as you have two initialized user banks.
And you are forced to have two (one for EXis, one for HD1-sounds).

So the present system is manageable (with some planning, eventual manual reconfiguring of combis and tools like Michel's), but certainly not perfect or just "ready to go". The Korg team should spend a minute on that before the next OS update.

I personally think that MUCH more than a whole bank could be freed up after having checked all the HD-1 programs in banks I-B to I-G. This is the classical workstation sound museum you find in any workstation: with lots of ancient low-quality sounds which I doubt will be used much nowadays.

The situation reminds me of a certain kind of people who are uncapable of getting rid of old stuff, and keep it in the house or cellar, "just in case". It's big fun the first time they move to another house.

Seriously, for my taste it is becoming embarassing to find hardly useable low quality sounds from the 80s and 90s in big numbers in modern workstations (from Korg, Kurzweil, Roland and Yamaha). I know there are some which still have a meaning to some, but that doesn't count for most of them from my view.

I could EASILY live without 80% of the HD-1 content from Banks I-B to I-G. If Korg had the courage for a cleanup (without any danger: providung this stuff as pcgs and the related mini-samples on SSD), there would be plenty of space for programs, and it would be good to provide some urgent quality updates for sound like Eguitars and perhaps also some other basic stuff on a better quality level (electric bass, some brass section stuff etc.).

This is not in any way meant agressive: I am extremely happy with the Kronos already now. But I am convinced that this is an overdue step to let the Kronos reach present quality standards as a whole.