Looking for Advice on a Master MIDI and Mixer setup

[tpantano]

Well, I've gotten sick of having to switch around cables everytime I want to use a different synth. So, I'm wondering if you could help me setup a master MIDI and Mixer setup.

Let me try and explain what I have now-

Let's start with audio.
Going into my computer is the Fast Track Pro. Plugged into each of the FTPs audio inputs is an adapter that accepts two 1/4' mono inputs and converts them into a single mono 1/4' output.


from each of those runs two 'guitar' 1/4 cables. for example, lets take the FTPs left input; from the adapter runs two cables, one into one synths left output, the other to another synths left output. Then from the FTPs right input, the adapter routes two cables to two synths right outputs.

With this setup, if I use two synths at the same time, both have their output diminished do to the nature of the cabling. So let's say I'm using the X50 with no volume as a MIDI controller for the R3; the R3s output will be cut in half simply because the X50 is on, unless I unplug the audio cables from the X50.

If I want to use my microphone, I need to unplug the left audio inputs entirely, plug in my XLR cable, and then turn on phantom power and boost the input gain.

Now for MIDI; I have one standard MIDI cable. If I want to play my slim phatty with a keyboard, I connect it from my X50 or R3 to the SP. If I want to sequence a line through Logic, I then have to reroute the MIDI cable so that one end is in my FTP and the other is in my synth of choice.

This is all really inconvenient for me, so I'm trying to figure out how I could do the following.

The first is, I want to have all my keyboards plugged into a mixer of sorts where I can either choose which keyboards audio to output to my computer, or mix each keyboard into my computer. So basically I'd have instrument cables from every single one of synths running into the mixer, and I could toggle either by button or by mixing levels which synth goes on to my computer and Logic. Also, it should be able to accept an XLR input and provide phantom power.
It doesn't matter to me if the mixer outputs directly to Logic via USB/Firewire, or if it sends out stereo or L/R Mono audios which then pass through the FTP first which then forwards it to Logic.

For midi, I'd again like MIDI cables running to all of my synths, and then have the ability to choose a controller (be it one of my synths, Logic's output through my Fast Track Pro, or a master MIDI keyboard which I may buy in the future) and route it to one of the synths individually as a receiver.

Any ideas on products to do these things, or, if it exists, a product that could handle both the MIDI and Audio in the way I want to?

Thanks ^^

[xmlguy]

Let's start with audio.
Going into my computer is the Fast Track Pro. Plugged into each of the FTPs audio inputs is an adapter that accepts two 1/4' mono inputs and converts them into a single mono 1/4' output.


from each of those runs two 'guitar' 1/4 cables. for example, lets take the FTPs left input; from the adapter runs two cables, one into one synths left output, the other to another synths left output. Then from the FTPs right input, the adapter routes two cables to two synths right outputs.

With this setup, if I use two synths at the same time, both have their output diminished do to the nature of the cabling. So let's say I'm using the X50 with no volume as a MIDI controller for the R3; the R3s output will be cut in half simply because the X50 is on, unless I unplug the audio cables from the X50.

If I want to use my microphone, I need to unplug the left audio inputs entirely, plug in my XLR cable, and then turn on phantom power and boost the input gain.

What you are doing with that Y adapter is shorting two separate outputs together. That is a VERY BAD THING TO DO. You could blow up all the outputs that you short together this way. Never, ever, short outputs together. You cannot safely combine two outputs to a single input with a direct electrical connection.

Let's say one output is at a 0volt level and has no signal (but the device is turned on). Let's say the other output has a 1volt sine wave, which starts a 0volts and cycles to 1volt and back. When both outputs are a 0volts, the output is 0volts and there is not difference in potential (volts) between them and little or no current flow (amps). But when device 1 is at 0volts and device 2 is at 1v, then device 1 will try to keep the voltage at 0volts while device to will try to keep it at 1v - like a game of "tug of war" where the amplifier on the strongest side wins, while the other side is putting out it's maximum current - and losing. Where does the voltage end up? Somewhere in the middle, and that's not a good thing to do to a signal when it thinks it should be at 1V.

Outputs must be mixed together with a circuit that doesn't allow direct electrical flow between them. In other words, you have to send those outputs to separate inputs on a mixer, then you can use the mixer faders to determine which output is going to the FTP inputs. You can hook the mic up to a mic input on the mixer to let you control when that goes to the FTP too.

[tpantano]

O.O

Well, I just unplugged that setup entirely.

I guess I'll do each synth individually, for now.

So, any ideas on an audio and/or MIDI mixer?

[xmlguy]

O.O

Well, I just unplugged that setup entirely.

I guess I'll do each synth individually, for now.

So, any ideas on an audio and/or MIDI mixer?

You should hear the audio go back to normal, right?

For an audio mixer, I think it's important to look at all the situations in which you're likely to use it, such as playing live gigs, recording in the field and in the studio. You can go with something simple and cheap like a mini-mixer or much more powerful and expensive like a multi-purpose Zoom R24 multitrack recorder, interface, and DAW controller. I prefer mixers that have channel faders, so I avoid mini-mixers with only knobs for the channel levels. It's also useful to get as many stereo channels as you can find, since most everything in the keyboard world is stereo these days except mono synths.

As far as midi goes, I just keep my setup ultra simple. I use USB-midi for anything that has it, otherwise I have a few midi cables that I keep around to patch as needed. I don't believe in a One Midi Ring Setup To Rule Them All. I cast that idea into fires of Mordor a long time ago. If I can patch modular/semi-modular synths dynamically, then I can patch the control of synths dynamically too. I also gave up Ring Topologies in general with computer networks. Star or Peer-to-Peer Topologies are better.

[ozy]

Plugged into each of the FTPs audio inputs is an adapter that accepts two 1/4' mono inputs and converts them into a single mono 1/4' output. from the adapter runs two cables, one into one synths left output, the other to another synths left output. Then from the FTPs right input, the adapter routes two cables to two synths right outputs.
ith this setup, if I use two synths at the same time,

the word "mixer" suddendly comes to mind.

[Aciphecs]

Plugged into each of the FTPs audio inputs is an adapter that accepts two 1/4' mono inputs and converts them into a single mono 1/4' output. from the adapter runs two cables, one into one synths left output, the other to another synths left output. Then from the FTPs right input, the adapter routes two cables to two synths right outputs.
ith this setup, if I use two synths at the same time,

the word "mixer" suddendly comes to mind.

Yea, that what he's asking about. Read the subject!

We just purchased a Behringer Xenyx802 (on a super-tight budget these days) it works great, and almost no noise. I'm sure there will be those who hate on it, but for under $50 you can't beat it.

[tpantano]

Plugged into each of the FTPs audio inputs is an adapter that accepts two 1/4' mono inputs and converts them into a single mono 1/4' output. from the adapter runs two cables, one into one synths left output, the other to another synths left output. Then from the FTPs right input, the adapter routes two cables to two synths right outputs.
ith this setup, if I use two synths at the same time,

the word "mixer" suddendly comes to mind.

Yea, that what he's asking about. Read the subject!

We just purchased a Behringer Xenyx802 (on a super-tight budget these days) it works great, and almost no noise. I'm sure there will be those who hate on it, but for under $50 you can't beat it.

I'm really hazy atm and I'm looking at the specs and pics and can't seem to get my mind around this....

can it accept a phantom power mic, a mono 1/4' input, and two pairs of L/R 1/4' inputs mixed to stereo? I'm thinking it can from the pics but as I said my mind isn't exactly with me atm lol

[xmlguy]

The Behringer XENYX 1002B is the minimum I'd recommend. It has 4 stereo channels, uses faders for all channels, create phantom power, and runs on batteries. I have a slighter older version of it. I wouldn't recommend it for live gigs, at least not without backup, since I don't trust the reliability of Behr mixers. I have a Mackie mixer that I have in reserve for gigs.

[tpantano]

The Behringer XENYX 1002B is the minimum I'd recommend. It has 4 stereo channels, uses faders for all channels, create phantom power, and runs on batteries. I have a slighter older version of it. I wouldn't recommend it for live gigs, at least not without backup, since I don't trust the reliability of Behr mixers. I have a Mackie mixer that I have in reserve for gigs.

That's fine, atm I'm only working in the studio.

So just to clarify- I'd be able to have two separate mono inputs; one a Phantom Powered XLR and one a mono 1/4' input from my Moog, as well as four mono inputs that are then converted to two L/R stereo channels (my X50 and R3) then mix them onward all at the same time?

[ozy]

based on my two-years experience with a behringer mixer,

I'd have two remarks:

a) tpantano is running, among others, a moog through his audio interface (which will include the mixer), and is working on a computer-based DAW.

WHAT'S THE PURPOSE of using such a good synth and a computer-based interface and DAW if you pass the sound through a 50-bucks mixer?

cheap mixers are not "transparent". they will tame your sound. they EQ will colour it, or un-colour it.

b) is it clear to Tpantano that, in a sound processing chain, quality is determined by the weakest link?

I spent more or less 1/4th of my budget on my mixer, 3/4 on synths, and I don't use a DAW, or it would have been 1/3 on daw and mixer, 2/3 on synths.

This is why I had made funny faces [ ] at tpantano's initial question.

I never used the xenyx, but when I didtched the Behringer Eurorack I gained a lot.

I can't recommend a specific 4-channels mixer.

But I can recommend not to consider the mixer as an annoying necessity, to be solved quickly and cheaply.

spend on it, listening and testing, at least half the time you spent on choosing the phatty.

[X-Trade]

I use a larger Xenyx console (1832FX) and used to use a Behringer Eurodesk (1204FX) mixer. I have to say the sound quality is vastly improved and the EQ is really fantastic. Yes it does have its own character and I'm not sure how clean its 'flat' mode is, but it sounds pretty nice.

My biggest complaint is that I'm not using it at the moment because it doesn't exactly fit in with my computer integration setup.

It has also been more reliable and cleaner, better noise floor than my Alesis multimix12FW firewire mixer/interface.

[tpantano]

hmm... coloring my synths simply will not do. There's not even a dry function I could use, so that all the mixer controls is gain/volume/whatever-the-correct-term-is? From what my muddied mind can tell the behringer is an analogue mixer so there should no be quality corruption due to low simple/bitrates.... right?

I can't really think at all atm >.>

[X-Trade]

Yeah, there won't be any AD or DA to reduce your quality. However, the question is really whether the EQs maintain linear phase when they are zeroed off in the centre position. But the same can be said of any analogue mixer.

One of the things I personally love about the Xenyx range though is the EQs. They just sound really good.

[xmlguy]

It's easy enough to determine if the sound quality of a particular Behringer mixer is good enough: buy it then return it if you don't like it. I bought it and didn't return it, which makes my opinion clear about supposed problems with the audio quality of the one I bought. I can buy any mixer I want, but I don't want to spend any more than necessary merely to flat mix multiple inputs to go to a computer interface. Now if I was going to be mixing down a track for mastering, then I'd go to the studio to use the big iron. It's a lot better than a loose buzzing connection or shorting multiple outputs together, I can guarantee.

[neotechtonics]

You can go with something simple and cheap like a mini-mixer or much more powerful and expensive like a multi-purpose Zoom R24 multitrack recorder, interface, and DAW controller.

I'm looking at the Zoom R24 at the moment.. I think it's pretty good bang for the buck. (yes it is expensive compared to mini-mixers) but I'm looking for an audio interface, a multitrack recorder and a mixer... kill a handful of birds with one stone. I'll probably also use it for looping and as a controller.. if i buy it.