European prices and release dates from Musikmesse???

ozy · Post by **ozy** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:25 am

Estote Amazati

thekeymaster · Post by **thekeymaster** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:25 am

Well I don't wish to sound out of place here but for me a company like Korg should have had their price structure in place months ago.

They know how much it costs to manufacture,they know how much it costs to ship and they know how much they can take a hit with fluctuating exchange rates. I find the delay of pricing in Europe a bit lame.

They should know the bottom floor in their price to get maximum profit for sale to retail. This should have been decided at the beginning of the year.

Delays in production or anything else to do with shipping I totally understand due to the earthquake. People come before anything else but I would have thought the business heads at Korg Japan would have agreed on a minimum trade price already. If they hadn't it's not good business practice.

gjvti · Post by **gjvti** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:55 am

thekeymaster wrote:...They know how much it costs to manufacture,they know how much it costs to ship and they know how much they can take a hit with fluctuating exchange rates. I find the delay of pricing in Europe a bit lame.
They should know the bottom floor in their price to get maximum profit for sale to retail. This should have been decided at the beginning of the year....

if you think it is lame, just calculate the bottom floor yourself - soundhouse.co.jp lists 61 key model at ~260K Yen. Divide that to 120, then add shipping and customs tax (usually VAT) and you get your bottom floor as today - somewhere near to ~3K eur. I think dealers look further so they need to set price not just for today, but also for longer period to make it more or less consistent, including their expenses providing warranty and service.

thekeymaster · Post by **thekeymaster** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:59 am

No offence but that wont work.you are talking about Japanese pricing,each country seems to have different pricing structures.

I'm not questioning the retailers,all i'm stating is Korg know how much a unit costs them and how much profit they will make on it.

Lets sort this in simple terms.

I research,develop and build a Kronos and after all my shipping and taxes and exchange rate discrepancies it costs me £1,000 per unit to make and distribute to the various countries regardless of distance. Always work out your margin on the country that it costs you the most to distribute in.

Now I decide to sell this to retail at TRADE for £2,000. I make £1,000 on each unit even if the exchange rate falls very very low the minimum I shall make will always be £1,000 per unit,you work this into your pricing.

I recommend the retailer sells it for £2,999 RRP. Its up to the retailer if he sells it at full price. Depends on how much profit they wish to make.

Now I know its a very basic way of looking at things but this is how and it should be worked out already. I'm, not gonna start bashing Korg. I just think they should now how much each unit will be priced at to make them a profit. Maybe the problem is not from Japan but the individual distributors in each country.

I just think that the US got their price at NAMM. God knows why Korg didn't have European prices at Messe,regardless of Earthquake. They had plenty of time to sort it with their European colleagues. I mean they launch it in the UK and still no price,what kind of a launch is that? Very odd.

ScoobyDoo555 · Post by **ScoobyDoo555** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:13 pm

Simple really - it wouldn't surprise me if Korg UK had a good idea that the price would be over £3000 for the 61.
Bearing in mind the relative lack of success** with the OASYS, M50, M3 etc, the Kronos has to deliver.
With this type of price tag, it does make prospective buyers (not so much the die-hard Korg fans) think twice.
There's a LOT of competition out there (not necessarily with the amount of synthesis engines, but let's be honest, most of the Kronos is available in legacy format anyway) - £3000 give or take a few quid is a LOT of money.

I personally think that Korg have been waiting to see what happens with the money markets and the all-important reviews before publishing the price.

** And I use this term loosely, but hopefully you'll get what I'm trying to say!

robinkle · Post by **robinkle** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:33 pm

3000 pounds for the 61 would have me get second thoughts too. I would wait for Summer NAMM at least to look for options.

orpheus2006 · Post by **orpheus2006** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:31 am

jmexio wrote:But, then again, I know the Kronos 88 will be around the 4400 dollar mark here, so at least I know that I'll need more than 4000 and less than 5000...

And a few extra jobs!

Cheers,
Juan Miguel

Similar situation here, except I don't need a few extra jobs.
For $4400 (=€3040) I would pre-order a Kronos88 today w/o hesitation.
For $5000 (=€3450) or higher fantasy prices, I will not buy it.
Regardless of Korg Europe's pricing, my price range is already fixed.

dokido · Post by **dokido** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:39 am

Yes the price is one of the most important parameters with this synth
an oasys2 for a low price is interesting, but not selling (for me of course)
for a wery low price, yes I buy
but now when the price speculation is ricing again, the kronos is not so interesting anymore

but it also seems hard to sell my old synths so it seems I dont have anymoney anyway

shabbee · Post by **shabbee** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:59 pm

Unicorn wrote:
RC-IA wrote:yes! this is incredible ...... some people said in France that the kronos would be at the M3 first out price ! Bullshit, it will be between 25 and 30% more !!!! i'm not saying this will be too high, i'm saying that kind of advertisement is bad, they really treat us like idiot ! i can understand we do not have a exact delivery date, but the price..........come on !
Neither delivery timelines, nor price - they are not in control. Plus it is high time they must learn to think and act like a global organisation.

Btw, Jupitor 80 looks and sounds amazing given there are a number of SuperNatural engines built in plus the fantastic V-synth engine. It blows out Kronos in the Synth section. Oh and how can I forget - it's got a beautiful touch screen which is actuall readable and the sounds which are platable. Now, for the remaining areas given the Kronos Str1 and HD1 packed with a sh%$ load of crap was never in competition, is there a good reason not to buy Jupitor 80 it over and against Kronos? Just for it's pianos which stand nowhere compared with the software instruments?

I'm seriously considering dropping out from my Kronos pre-order, that's enough, period.

you should buy the Roland product, no one is forcing you to buy a kronos

shabbee · Post by **shabbee** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:11 pm

thekeymaster wrote:Well I don't wish to sound out of place here but for me a company like Korg should have had their price structure in place months ago.

They know how much it costs to manufacture,they know how much it costs to ship and they know how much they can take a hit with fluctuating exchange rates. I find the delay of pricing in Europe a bit lame.

They should know the bottom floor in their price to get maximum profit for sale to retail. This should have been decided at the beginning of the year.

Delays in production or anything else to do with shipping I totally understand due to the earthquake. People come before anything else but I would have thought the business heads at Korg Japan would have agreed on a minimum trade price already. If they hadn't it's not good business practice.

This is a very hot topic and also very complex. 1st of all MAP prices quoted for USA don't include sales tax as far as I'm aware and the reason maybe is because it varies from state to state. Can someone please confirm this as I admit that this is an assumption on my part?

For Europe you are dealing with three currencies and a lot of selling across the different countires in the EU. Distributors in EU mainland purchase in Euros and in the UK in pounds, the exchange rate between these currencies and the Yen have varied quite a bit over the last year. If you was to convert the distributors purchase price to dollars, it wouldn't surprise me if there was as much variation in cost between UK and say Germany by 10%. If the German distributor was buying Yen products at 10% less than the UK then he can either make more money or sell more units to his dealers who in turn can sell at a lower cost thus undercutting the UK based dealers who will loose business. The alternative is a price war that eventually trashes the product. Another consequence is that users that have brought a unit six weeks go may find that the price has dropped by £100 or more and he understandibly will not be happy. How does one solve all these problems??

Rumours I've heard are that the 61 will have an RRP of £2999 which will equate to £2499 street price. With the Motif XF-61 about £2230-ish and Fantom £1800-ish, Kronos is still attractive

Jupiter 80 is being pitched at £2500-ish, looks alright if you like that kind of thing

zahush76 · Post by **zahush76** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:13 pm

shabbee wrote:
Unicorn wrote:
RC-IA wrote:yes! this is incredible ...... some people said in France that the kronos would be at the M3 first out price ! Bullshit, it will be between 25 and 30% more !!!! i'm not saying this will be too high, i'm saying that kind of advertisement is bad, they really treat us like idiot ! i can understand we do not have a exact delivery date, but the price..........come on !
Neither delivery timelines, nor price - they are not in control. Plus it is high time they must learn to think and act like a global organisation.

Btw, Jupitor 80 looks and sounds amazing given there are a number of SuperNatural engines built in plus the fantastic V-synth engine. It blows out Kronos in the Synth section. Oh and how can I forget - it's got a beautiful touch screen which is actuall readable and the sounds which are platable. Now, for the remaining areas given the Kronos Str1 and HD1 packed with a sh%$ load of crap was never in competition, is there a good reason not to buy Jupitor 80 it over and against Kronos? Just for it's pianos which stand nowhere compared with the software instruments?

I'm seriously considering dropping out from my Kronos pre-order, that's enough, period.
you should buy the Roland product, no one is forcing you to buy a kronos

It's "Unitroll". Don't even bother to answer his posts. It's quite obvious what's he trying to do and who sent him. I mean, how low can you go?

ozy · Post by **ozy** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:53 pm

zahush76 wrote: It's "Unitroll". Don't even bother to answer his posts. It's quite obvious what's he trying to do and who sent him. I mean, how low can you go?

I mean, is there really a guy at Roland whose job is "sending" trolls around?

How does that happen?

He picks up the phone and commands little trolls to this or that forum?

He does that 9 till 5, then goes home?

5 days a week, dental plan, and all the stuff?

If such a guy exists...

... I want his job.

MartinHines · Post by **MartinHines** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:15 am

shabbee wrote:1st of all MAP prices quoted for USA don't include sales tax as far as I'm aware and the reason maybe is because it varies from state to state. Can someone please confirm this as I admit that this is an assumption on my part?

There can be city/county and/or state sales tax. For example, where I live, I have to pay a 6% Sales Tax on most retail purchases.

One advantage in the U.S. of mail order/internet purchases is the retailer does not collect sales tax. Customers are supposed to effectively pay it themselves on out-of-state purchases, but most don't.

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:33 am

MartinHines wrote:One advantage in the U.S. of mail order/internet purchases is the retailer does not collect sales tax.

Not entirely true - if you live in the same state where the company does business, they will collect tax. And some of the larger online dealers collect tax for several states (but not all). Still, in many cases, you can avoid sales tax by ordering from an online dealer that is not located in the same state you are. Of course, then you have to pay shipping...

thekeymaster · Post by **thekeymaster** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:12 am

shabbee wrote:
For Europe you are dealing with three currencies and a lot of selling across the different countires in the EU. Distributors in EU mainland purchase in Euros and in the UK in pounds, the exchange rate between these currencies and the Yen have varied quite a bit over the last year. If you was to convert the distributors purchase price to dollars, it wouldn't surprise me if there was as much variation in cost between UK and say Germany by 10%. If the German distributor was buying Yen products at 10% less than the UK then he can either make more money or sell more units to his dealers who in turn can sell at a lower cost thus undercutting the UK based dealers who will loose business. The alternative is a price war that eventually trashes the product. Another consequence is that users that have brought a unit six weeks go may find that the price has dropped by £100 or more and he understandibly will not be happy. How does one solve all these problems??

World Currency.

But there would be no money to be made if that were to happen would there. Would solve a lot of problems though.

Greed is an amazing thing.

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European prices and release dates from Musikmesse???

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