"transposer" problem solved! THANKS! AFTERMATH!!

Discussions relating to the Korg Pa2X Pro, Pa800 & Pa500

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Rob Sherratt
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Post by Rob Sherratt »

civias wrote:3. It can't be a mechanical or hardware problem, transpose buttons work just fine. Tested them excessively today. Both, left and right hand sides are being transposed accurately on every single touch. However, the right side remains always 2 full semitones (+5 fine detuning units too high)

6. Two things that keeps me puzzled:
a) When I hold let's say G Mayor in the left side, and play the melody in A Mayor (sure ain't easy) from time to time for, just a split second the let's call it "error" dissapears. But right the next moment it's back and stays for a most of the time. Like it works for 1 second out of 60 seconds as it should.
b) How come it's not exactly 2 semitones apart, where does the +5 fine detuning units come from?
Hi civias,

Just some thoughts, take them for what they are worth, and form your own conclusions ....

1. Forum members cannot recreate the problem using our own keyboards. This means there is either a software or a hardware fault on your Pa800.

2. Similar problems on my own Pa2x keyboard (distorted sounds etc) were caused by data corruption inside the SSD, and were solved by following the "Pa2x_format.pkg" procedure that Pete referred you to. In your case. the procedure would involve first running "Pa800_format.pkg" followed by the huge file "Pa800_os_res_v201.pkg" which takes a long time to download. This procedure completely reformats the SSD to the factory state. I believe you confirmed you have done that, though the details in your message seem a little vague ... which is the reason I am spelling it out again ... if this is not the solution, then it is likely to be expensive to fix I am afraid.

3. The symptoms you describe could be caused by a failure with the circuitry associated with the sound generator ASIC which is called the "big endian" in the service manual, and which is a proprietary chip made by Korg. For example, a short between two address lines associated with the synthesis channels for the upper sound banks might explain the constant offset of 2 semitones + 5 cents. Maybe 2 semitones + 5 cents in the audio domain corresponds to exactly some binary offset value maybe 32, 64, 128, 256 etc in the data domain? That's why I think it may be symptomatic of two adjacent address lines shorting, or perhaps a single address line being permanently disconnected.

4. I suspect that the CPU circuit board which contains the "Big Endian" sound generator IC will have to be replaced. If I was a service center I would swap this board in the first instance with a known good board, and see if the fault goes away. On the Pa2x, this board is part number GRA1002100, but I do not know the corresponding part number for your Pa800 which uses a different board.

Best regards,
Rob
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civias
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Post by civias »

Got an idea based on this note from Rob:

"Note: My default setup is with no keyboard split and with chord recognition assigned to the whole keyboard range,"

I use the keyboard only splitted with left hand chord recognition!
Everything coming from the left hand out of the arranger section is 100% ok and correct.
Only the right hand side remains 2 full semitones (+5 fine detune steps) too high! Whole board, both sides react to every tranposer switch touching perfectly, just the right side remains on it's own cloud #7, or better it's own universum! Always 2(+5) away from where it should be.

Today, during my excessive testing and trying, I figured out that even in full upper mode, with any sound, factory or user it still is off 2(+5 fine units) semitones.
But Rob, your note above gave me an idea, which I can only test tomorrow.
What will happen when I start the arranger while in full upper mode. Never used that option before.
Didn't think of it before and am very curious what will I hear and find out tommorow. I'll keep you updated on this one.

Again guys, most thankful to all of you so far!
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civias
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Post by civias »

Hey Rob, again we posted at the very same time :)

Please see my last post too.

To your latest post:

1. Sure agree to that, never thought it would be recreateable at all

2. I assure you I run both packages (format + OS2.01 including factory sounds and presets) now 4 times in 48 hours. With no change to the problem at all. And yes it takes like 15-20 minutes to load the second one!

3.+4. Sounds pretty technical to me! I'm not on that level unfortunately.
But for sure it sounds like you are and I trust you without any questioning.
I am a new member from today, but not new to this forum, as I have seen and read tons of great responses and accurate help inputs from you and other unselfish members.

Don't know yet where to find the Canadian service Center, as I just purchased privately this used unit, which is in great visual shape, and worked just fine to described moment. But I will figure that out, if no one can give me an address here. I am in Burlington, app 40 km from Toronto.

I will print out your suggestions with the "big endian" and see what they say when I mention it. Hope you're ok with that?

Also, based on your note, first thing tomorrow will start the arranger section, while in full upper mode. Never did that before and am curious.
Very curious, as the arranger section works perfectly! What will I get when in full upper mode with full keyboard chord recognition?
All in tune or all and still 2(+5) off again? We'll see.

Also, I think I'll wait another 2-3 days, maybe someone who has or had the same problem will come foward :)

Many thanks again to you and all the other members, just great people!
Makes me feel bad and selfish for not registering long ago, before I ever got my own problem. I sure could have put some helpful inputs here and there.
For that I am very sorry and my apologies to all of you !!!!!!!! :oops:
It's 5 am now here, long past my bed time here.
Good night all!
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Rob Sherratt
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Post by Rob Sherratt »

Also, based on your note, first thing tomorrow will start the arranger section, while in full upper mode. Never did that before and am curious. Very curious, as the arranger section works perfectly! What will I get when in full upper mode with full keyboard chord recognition? All in tune or all and still 2(+5) off again? We'll see.
Hi civias,

That will be a good test. If the keyboard parts are 2(+5) out of tune compared with the arranger parts then it is a hardware fault.

Regards,
Rob
chrisgr
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Post by chrisgr »

Hi!
I have two suggestions to make.I'm not sure I will help you but you have nothing to lose!
1. If you use a pedal, unplug it and see what happens.
2. It might be a joystick problem.Try moving the joystick to all directions in case it has a problem, or go to sound mode->pitch and set the joystick parameters to 0.

I had a problem with the joystick.When I moved it all the way to the right, the sound remained pitched for a while even if the joystick was back in its initial position.Maybe this was caused by dust, I don't know.Now it's ok.
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shrike
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Post by shrike »

Although I don't own any arranger, I play Korg's keyboards exclusively and witnessed similar problems on Korg's workstations - in all situations, joystick was the cause of the of-pitch problems. In most scenarios, joystick would lose it's center for whatever reason (dust, faulty potentiometer, loose spring) and thus affect overall pitch. Now, I assume that left hand is in desired pitch because joystick doesn't affect arranger part, but only the right hand - the solo part.
Try testing and calibrating your joystick before doing something more serious.
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Rob Sherratt
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Post by Rob Sherratt »

Joystick - of course - great suggestion guys, that would explain it. Why didn't I think of that, durr!

Civias,

You can get a replacement for 38 Euros here. It's the same part used on Pa1x, Pa800 and Pa2x. Try that before contacting a repair center. You can fit the joystick yourself, it's easy.

http://www.thomann.de/gr/korg_joystick_ ... 1x_pro.htm

Best regards,
Rob
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civias
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Post by civias »

OK, BACK ONLINE!
Usually work from noon to 8pm, but of course not today &*%^#%&@
Sometimes it stinks, even if you're your own boss!!!!!

And now, the sound of pure happiness:

WAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

Not just old, but silly too
:lol:

Give me 20 minutes and I'll report in detail!!!
so much upfront:
PROBLEM PARTIALLY SOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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civias
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Post by civias »

Rob Sherratt wrote:
Also, based on your note, first thing tomorrow will start the arranger section, while in full upper mode. Never did that before and am curious. Very curious, as the arranger section works perfectly! What will I get when in full upper mode with full keyboard chord recognition? All in tune or all and still 2(+5) off again? We'll see.
Hi civias,

That will be a good test. If the keyboard parts are 2(+5) out of tune compared with the arranger parts then it is a hardware fault.

Regards,
Rob
It was a good test, but problem remained. And at that point I was sure it'll be a costly repair. Thank god not. Not because of the money, but because of all the trouble and struggle one has to go through!
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civias
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Post by civias »

chrisgr wrote:Hi!
I have two suggestions to make.I'm not sure I will help you but you have nothing to lose!
1. If you use a pedal, unplug it and see what happens.
2. It might be a joystick problem.Try moving the joystick to all directions in case it has a problem, or go to sound mode->pitch and set the joystick parameters to 0.

I had a problem with the joystick.When I moved it all the way to the right, the sound remained pitched for a while even if the joystick was back in its initial position.Maybe this was caused by dust, I don't know.Now it's ok.
1.Don't use a pedal for now, but will!

2. JACKPOT :) thank you so much chris, you da man !!!!
I'll explain further below!!!
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civias
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Post by civias »

shrike wrote:Although I don't own any arranger, I play Korg's keyboards exclusively and witnessed similar problems on Korg's workstations - in all situations, joystick was the cause of the of-pitch problems. In most scenarios, joystick would lose it's center for whatever reason (dust, faulty potentiometer, loose spring) and thus affect overall pitch. Now, I assume that left hand is in desired pitch because joystick doesn't affect arranger part, but only the right hand - the solo part.
Try testing and calibrating your joystick before doing something more serious.
MOST THANKFUL TO YOU TOO BRO :)
Will explain further below!
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civias
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Post by civias »

Rob Sherratt wrote:Joystick - of course - great suggestion guys, that would explain it. Why didn't I think of that, durr!

Civias,

You can get a replacement for 38 Euros here. It's the same part used on Pa1x, Pa800 and Pa2x. Try that before contacting a repair center. You can fit the joystick yourself, it's easy.

http://www.thomann.de/gr/korg_joystick_ ... 1x_pro.htm

Best regards,
Rob
Maybe you're getting old too???? :):)

Well here the explanation:

Right after that first test, focused on Chris' and Shrike's suggestions.
I very rarely use the joystick, it looks like new and should be in a great condition, as it works accurately. I'm more the "aftertouching" and "thriller-producing" kind of player :)

I simply went to Style>Menue>Kbd Control and disabled (unmarked) the Damper, Joystick X and Joystick Y!
The same moment I heard the lovely difference!!!!
Then experimented a little, and found out that only Joystick X is affected!

Now in retrospective, I see I should have earlier thought of that!
For one simple reason:
The LOwer sound was never affected, simply because the setting of lower section at KbdControl seems to be factory wise "unmarked"!!!!
All 3 upper tracks also seem to be enabled in the factory preset! That explains why the problem remained even after formatting and reloading OS2.01 incl. factory preset!!!

On a side note, even if the "Lower Sound" is usually played with the left hand, it's treated on this keyboard like the Upper1-3, which is one thing I hate very much!
EM2000 has 2 lowers and a separate volume poti for them!! On the PA for my kind of music it's only usable for backing when style is stopped!
Otherwise, it's very disturbing when you increase volume of the upper tracks, lower gets unvoluntary louder too! Not well engineered!

Now, biggest part of the problem solved thanks to the great help here!
Joystick definitely responsible for everything, in what way ever!

What remains is just a couple easy questions:

1. Is there anywhere global disabling of Joystick X (and Y),
can't find it?

2. If not, if I open up the keyboard and simply disconnect it temporary, or is there any advice that says I should not???

3. To order and buy one shouldn't be a problem, but is it too complicated to exchange? I got some skills, but am not an electronic engineer :)
Oh just seen Rob's note: "You can fit the joystick yourself, it's easy."
I'll trust you on that one too, thanks!

If 1. or 2. are out of option, I will quickly adjust all my performances in use. Which is not too complicated, as I mostly have saved my favorite performances in form of STS's into the style-performances! I'll do that with joy, just thank god I can use the keyboard again and nothing ugly is going to kill my PA-starter-spirit :)

I will for sure open the keyboard and take a good "look" inside. Did that with all my keys so far. So disconnecting the Joystick completely until replacement arrives seems like a good option to me??!?

AGAIN, ALL OF YOU GREAT GUYS -

THANK YOU

You all have a couple drinks on me!!! Cheers!!! Life is good now :)
Anyone suggestions to 1-3?
paulbelleza
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Post by paulbelleza »

Well is good to hear that your problem is solved...
I want to say THANK YOU TO EVERYBODY HERE ON THIS FORUM!!!!!... I know and I'm sure that if ever I'll be facing a big problem I'm sure that here will be many people who will help!!!!!... SPECIAL THANKS to SHARP to gave this forum to all korg user's and ROB to help with all kind of problems...
Paul.
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civias
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Post by civias »

paulbelleza wrote:Well is good to hear that your problem is solved...
I want to say THANK YOU TO EVERYBODY HERE ON THIS FORUM!!!!!... I know and I'm sure that if ever I'll be facing a big problem I'm sure that here will be many people who will help!!!!!... SPECIAL THANKS to SHARP to gave this forum to all korg user's and ROB to help with all kind of problems...
101% with you on this paul
:wink:
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moebrand
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Post by moebrand »

I also want to thank Rob, Pete , Keith and all others for their helps to members on this forum.
Moebrand
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