Best Keyboard now?

[McHale]

Try the FCB1010 - available new on Ebay for $150 - It provides you with 10 programmable footswitches and 2 programmable continuous controller pedals, and there's PC based software to program it up. It's very sturdy and great for use with M3.

I second that. I have a couple (one for live rig, one for home rig) and when I'm gigging more than one synth, it's oerfect. If I'm only gigging one synth I use individual pedals.

-Mc

[Stefanus Wayanartha]

i heard that you can use FCB1010 to assign 8 karma scenes, and to start/stop karma. is that true? that's why i so interest about FCB1010 and i hope i can find one here

@Rob: can i set the continuous controller pedals to assign the M3's ribbon controller?

i think M3 is very flexible, i can set and change so many parameters to get my own sound and musical style.

[Kaedyn]

As someone who has both an M3 and a G, my opinion is that in the areas of design, intuitiveness, flexibility, and ease of use, the M3 is a clear winner. The G probably wins for impressiveness and beauty. Sound is a bit too subjective to say much about the stock samples, but I will say that the G offers me nothing close to what the EXB-Radias provides and it can't touch the Irish Acts piano sample (3rd party sample).

I really like the look of the M3, but I know I'm probably in the minority here. I think the G's looks are going to appeal to more people. The G's large screen really stands out and looks great. It's actually a much better visual screen than the M3. The contrast and colors really crush the M3. The downside here for me is that it's not a touch surface and I really like touchscreens. You can use a mouse for easier navigation, but there are many areas or instances where you can tell the mouse was an afterthought. Some things you just can't click on or manipulate with the mouse, which means you're going back and forth between the control wheel and the mouse. This shortcoming could easily be fixed in a software update and I think it's gotten better, but it hasn't been solved to my liking.

I'd repurchase my M3 in a heartbeat. I can't say the same for the G. I'm actually sort of sore with Roland over the G. They price it like the Mercedes of the synth market, yet every time I turn around, I'm finding that Korg one upped them on a less expensive board, both in hardware and software. Just compare the physical pads, audio routing, manipulation of data on external media, consistency of the software interface, Radias option, Karma, and so on. If I didn't have the M3 to compare it to, I'd probably be perfectly happy with the G.

Of course, little of what I've said here says much about how it caters to a particular musical style or your own personality. So, as has been said many times before, go try them both for yourself. Just make sure you bring a good pair of headphones. Also, make sure that the M3 you try has the EXB-PCM samples loaded. Most places that I've seen an M3 on display, they are using the non-Xpaded samples, which don't do the board justice.

[Rob Sherratt]

i heard that you can use FCB1010 to assign 8 karma scenes, and to start/stop karma. is that true? that's why i so interest about FCB1010 and i hope i can find one here

@Rob: can i set the continuous controller pedals to assign the M3's ribbon controller?

i think M3 is very flexible, i can set and change so many parameters to get my own sound and musical style.

You can set the continuous pedals to drive the same CC number as the ribbon controller, but there is a subtle difference. The ribbon controller has the property that having found the level of modulation that you like, you lift your finger and the level stays at that point. That is very hard to achieve with a foot pedal, you nearly always knock it a bit when you try to lift your foot off without disturbing it.

But hey Randelph complained about lack of pedal inputs, not the ribbon controller, and the FCB1010 is absolutely fantastic for the price, giving you 10 footswitches and two continuous pedals which are all usable on the M3. Yamaha and Roland make similar units but those are two or three times the price.

Regards,
Rob

[a.schemkes]

........
After 2 years of wrestling with the XS to do basic things like manage my files (having the desired samples/programs/combis organized for ready use), I said, screw this, I'm not playing in this camp anymore, this is a freakin' ridiculous amount of work and hassle, Yamaha did not take care of the basics.
..........

So true, the M3 is much more intuitive and fun to play. It inspires me more, i get a lot of ideas, just playing the combi's. Hit 2 buttons and you're ready to record you're inspiration right away.

[Asena]

Hi guys,
I heave XS 7
YAMAHA TYROS 3
M3
PA2X


my music is very variable, I do mostly Ballads, Pop , and DANCE music,
The Motif is a MUUUUUUUUCH FAAAAAAAR better Unit, WHY
Couse al sounds are much bigger, More Clean and The Samples they use are HUGE!
Gitars sound amazing, Strings are Pure, Orch sounds are amazing,

SAX sounds and some Gitars from the Tyros are just like REAL, If you can handle the playing.


But from TYROS you get an idea, And translate that IDEA to A song on The XS
EASY

PA2X , Is a great KB as well, BUT
nothing beside of the XS, If you realy need a WORKSTATION FOR STUDIO WORK

M3, I like some futures , But , The gitars are not OK at al, Some of the DR Kits are, not DEEP, Some of the Synth sounds prefered to XS is like Toy!

[Johnny Puperze]

Hi guys,
I heave XS 7
YAMAHA TYROS 3
M3
PA2X


my music is very variable, I do mostly Ballads, Pop , and DANCE music,
The Motif is a MUUUUUUUUCH FAAAAAAAR better Unit, WHY
Couse al sounds are much bigger, More Clean and The Samples they use are HUGE!
Gitars sound amazing, Strings are Pure, Orch sounds are amazing,

SAX sounds and some Gitars from the Tyros are just like REAL, If you can handle the playing.


But from TYROS you get an idea, And translate that IDEA to A song on The XS
EASY

PA2X , Is a great KB as well, BUT
nothing beside of the XS, If you realy need a WORKSTATION FOR STUDIO WORK

M3, I like some futures , But , The gitars are not OK at al, Some of the DR Kits are, not DEEP, Some of the Synth sounds prefered to XS is like Toy!

quality of soundsets are a subjective thing.
i for one like the fantom´s (x) soundset the best of the "big three" (have not played the g yet)
m3 second and motif (es- have not played the xs yet) third

i cant really describe it but there is something i really dont like about yami´s sound.

thats not to say its bad sounding- there are in fact lots of people praising it in these regards.

and even though i prefer roland´s soundset my favorite workstation is the M3:
- general workflow
- the great sequencer
- Radias exb
- assignable realtime controls for touchpad, ribbon controller, sliders, etc.


but in the end none of the developers are stupid and dont produce inferior stuff: each of the top of the line keyboards have features where they outshine the competition and others they are "lacking" in, so everyone has to find his/her "personal best" workstation which works best for him/her as there is no universally best unit.

[Synthoid]

quality of soundsets are a subjective thing...

everyone has to find his/her "personal best" workstation which works best for him/her as there is no universally best unit.

Precisely.

It still amazes me though, that so many people using an expensive workstation post videos on YouTube using only a piano or guitar sound. Boring! It's like buying an oil paint set with 1000 colors and only using red and blue.

Most users never get past the presets. Then they want more sounds. I've read posts from people who just took their new toy out of the box and they ask, "Where can I download more sounds?" Hello? Tweak the filter, change the waveform, adjust an EQ setting, or change an effect. Read the manual... oh wait, that got thrown out with the box.

[Randelph]

Snthoid wrote:

Most users never get past the presets. Then they want more sounds. I've read posts from people who just took their new toy out of the box and they ask, "Where can I download more sounds?" Hello? Tweak the filter, change the waveform, adjust an EQ setting, or change an effect. Read the manual... oh wait, that got thrown out with the box.

Yeah, and then there's learning to use the sounds you've got, even without tweaking them. Like with Clavi sounds, I'd heard them on R&B records, but it wasn't till I started playing a lot of 70's funk that I "got" why clavi sounds can be so cool. Same with organ and a lot of other sounds- it's developing the ear and playing techniques for that sound in that kind of music that can make a particular sound invaluable in your arsenal.

All of which takes time- I made the mistake with my Motif XS by trying to get the board all setup the way i wanted, which was an endless and continually frustrating task. Now, with my M3, I'm focusing first and foremost on learning the sounds the board has to offer, the controllers, and tackle technology issues on a need-to-know basis. I love it that there's a drum track available in every mode.

[cotler]

I have a titanium plate holding my neck together after an auto accident 10 yrs ago, so one of the big attractions to me was the M3M configuration. I can take it out with a light keyboard for portability, or I can hook it up to a full weighted 88 key controller at home. It's the only full workstation that I can move by myself.

I know there are "rack" versions of the other workstations, but they don't maintain the full interface experience that the Korg offers.

[McHale]

cotler,

man, sorry to hear that. I hope you're getting along OK.

Also, you know we're neighrbors, right? I work at JJC. Shout at me if you want to hook up some time.

-Mc

[UCanDream]

Hey Omni,

I didn't read this entire thread but I am responding to your inquiry directly... Understand that this is only 'IMHO'... so with that in mind: Scrap the idea of the Roland G. I returned mine- the reason? Sonically it is inferior to the M3 and the XS in every respect. For the money, right out of the box it is an immediate and overwhelming disappointment! It is a 5080 with a keyboard....and a pretty display (yeah, yeah, and a neato sequencer). Listen, don't spend 3 grand (or more) for eye candy. Your ears will never forgive you.

M3: It is a great choice! It is miles ahead of the G in so many respects that it makes little sense for me to write a book here in the little time I have. Most importantly, it SOUNDS way better. I hate sounding like I'm a know-it-all...but I am telling you, "It sounds WAY better." Not my opinion, it is a fact. Sorry, didn't I qualify my response as a 'IMHO' reply at the onset of this? LOL. Listen to both online for free. There are a kajillion YouTube and other vids of both. You do not need to own them to tell which sounds better.

XS: This is where I feel like I am betraying Korg. I absolutely love Korg! I love my Oasys 88, I wouldn't want to be without my M3 73. I am still fully utilizing my 01/W Pro (go ahead, laugh it up!).....AND my WS A/D. Yes, and my TG500...I totally dig that thing! The filters on the TG are killer! Okay, all that being said-----> The XS takes the cake. It's guitars cannot be beat. Period! The piano does NOT have the compressed sound of the M3. The 3rd party support for the Motif is unsurpassed. Whereas the Roland's strength may be it's "strings" the XS is absolutely superb in it's orchestral palette!! The 8 element voice architecture is a step beyond what 'the other guys' are doing. (Inasmuch as all 3 are samplers I am not taking into consideration what any of them can do in that area since most of us rely more heavily on stock, modified factory, or 3rd party sounds.) In the end, it is your money you are spending and your ears you have to satisfy. The XS is simply the highest quality sounding instrument of the three.

Anyone or everyone might differ with me on this stuff is all pretty subjective. Well, there you have it....just my opinion.


Kind regards,
UCanDream

[Randelph]

XS vs. M3
Don't believe me or UCanDream- you have to try it for yourself. But the continued mantra of the Motif XS beats out the M3 soundwise is not my experience. I like the sounds on the M3, overall, much better than the XS (I had one 2 years before buying the M3), there's an expressiveness and open clarity that excites me. That combined with pads, touchscreen, and being able to change the name and parameters of even the preset voices are huge pluses compared to the XS. Of course the XS has its pluses as well

It's cool that the XS has the 8 element Voice architechture, it certainly is flexible, but i'm guessing that because the M3 has up to 2 oscillators and up to 4 voices per Program, it's more straightforward to program the board for 4 way (or more) velocity switching, which might be part of why I dig the sound.

Does anyone have a more in depth idea of the sonic advantages/disadavtages to Korgs 2 oscillators x 4 layers vs. the Motif's 8 elements?

Not sure, but I suspect that the reason why the Combi/Performance mode on the XS is limited to 4 voice/programs at a time is because of the 8 element voice architecture, and very probably because that was the practical limit of the processor for retaining the 2 insert fxs per voice/program, and having arps for each of the 4 Voices/Programs.

Randy

[Rob Sherratt]

Note that a Performance on the M3 can have up to 4 different stereo multisamples assigned to each of its OSC's, provided that the multisamples are arranged to be velocity switched. Hence the dynamics of the sounds can be very nice, ranging from different "PP" samples through to "FF" samples for the same instrument.

Then a Combi can have up to 16 different Performances assigned. So in theory you could have 32 OSCs and 128 samples assigned to one note, the samples being triggered by velocity so that 32 are playing at any one time.

Best regards,
Rob

[UCanDream]

Hey Randelph,

"Don't believe me or UCanDream- you have to try it for yourself." I agree with you completely. Just to partially recap my reply, "this stuff is all pretty subjective. Well, there you have it....just my opinion."

The one thing I should have indicated is that, again IMHO, the M3 and XS synths are so close that I really almost could not pick a winner in my own mind between the two. The fact that I referred to the XS's guitars and pianos was really a take (my own, of course) on the sounds right out of the box. I have tweaked some lead guitars on my M3 that just might put some guitarists I know right out of work!! LOL. A lot of guys seem to put the 'immediate gratification' factor at the top of the heap in their consideration of a synths potential. If that were the case then the Oasys may have suffered an earlier demise than it already had. The factory guitars were nothing short of appalling!

I also realized that I had replied to a post that was pretty old. (The thread had been renewed by someone else's response) Anyway, I bet Omni ended up buying that Roland!! LOL.


Regards,
David