Difference EXB Radias expansion and Radius-R

[teluron]

Does anyone know what are the differences between the Radias Rack module and the EXB expansion card ? The specs must be significantly reduced for the expansion card, or are the two a completely different beast sonicly speaking?

[Rob Sherratt]

Hi Teluron,

These were the reasons I went for the EXB-RADIAS card, not the RADIAS rack:

The EXB-RADIAS card is fully programmable from the M3 OS, so you can have sounds and combis and Karma capabilities that make full use of it. You can edit the RADIAS sounds and save the configuration as programs on the M3. It's quarter the price of the rack.

The Radias rack is like a separate instrument that you can not program and configure anything like as easily from the M3 OS. You would have to drive it via MIDI and its much more difficult. But it looks real cool with all those knobs to twiddle.

Best regards,
Rob

[teluron]

Thanks a lot for that Rob.

Ernst

Hi Teluron,

These were the reasons I went for the EXB-RADIAS card, not the RADIAS rack:

The EXB-RADIAS card is fully programmable from the M3 OS, so you can have sounds and combis and Karma capabilities that make full use of it. You can edit the RADIAS sounds and save the configuration as programs on the M3. It's quarter the price of the rack.

The Radias rack is like a separate instrument that you can not program and configure anything like as easily from the M3 OS. You would have to drive it via MIDI and its much more difficult. But it looks real cool with all those knobs to twiddle.

Best regards,
Rob

[CfNorENa]

Here's another argument in favor of the EXB Radias, from the Sound on Sound review:

"When I heard that I was going to review the M3, I asked whether it could be supplied as a KYBD73 with both an M3M engine and a Radias R engine installed. I've seen the two mounted next to each other, and though I don't like the aesthetics of the combination (the two control panels side by side look like a mish-mash of concepts), it intrigues me.

Unfortunately, there were no KYBD73s in the UK at the time, but the review model had the EXB-Radias board fitted within the M3M. This is an (up to) 24-voice MMT (Multi Modelling Technology) sound generator that retains the voice structure of earlier incarnations of MMT, but is not quite the same as the original Radias synthesizer, so installing the board is not the same as mounting the Radias R alongside the M3M.

Most obviously, a Radias R Program has four timbres, while an MMT Program in Korg's forthcoming R3 synth is bi-timbral, and an MMT Program in the EXB-Radias is only mono-timbral. However, you can place up to four EXB-Radias Programs — of which one can be a vocoder Program — into a standard M3 Combi or sequencer setup, which is arguably a much more powerful configuration than the original Radias. This is because, once placed in a Combi, you can treat an MMT Program as you would any other, taking advantage of the M3's multitimbral effects and using KARMA as both an arpeggiator/sequencer tool and as a wave sequencer. Compare this with the effects architecture on the original Radias, or compare the Radias's arpeggiators and step sequencers to KARMA and the M3's sequencer, and it's clear that the integrated solution has much to recommend it.

There's another reason why the integrated approach is so powerful. Not only will the EXB-Radias accept external audio from the M3's audio inputs, it will accept it from either of the auxiliary buses, thus allowing you to direct EDS Programs, drum tracks, and other sources to the Radias's oscillators or its vocoder section. Sure, you can do something similar by sending audio down a couple of cables from an M3M to a Radias R, but that ties up outputs and has none of the elegance of the integrated system.

So is it a foregone conclusion that you should choose the EXB-Radias above the separate synth engine? Not necessarily... If you choose the Radias R, it increases the polyphony of the instrument, whereas the EXB-Radias may not do so, leaving maximum polyphony at 120 voices. (The literature is very unclear about this, and it's hard to test conclusively!) Furthermore, the Radias R provides its own effects sections, so you're not tying up any of the M3's effects, which may be stretched to the limit in a complex Combi. Furthermore, if you liked the original Radias because its control surface gave you the illusion of using an analogue synth, there's no contest; while the EXB-Radias makes full use of the physical controls on the M3M, they are no substitute for a knobbier panel.

On the other hand, there's something attractive about having four virtual-analogue, DWGS and FM mono- and/or poly-synths within the M3's environment, all playable from a wide, splittable keyboard with pressure-sensitivity (which both the Radias and R3 lack). If you're comfortable with the touchscreen and editing model provided by the M3, I think it would be hard to overlook the benefits of the integrated approach, as well as the much lower price attached to it. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that it might be daft to buy an M3 without the EXB-Radias board."

Los

[Rob Sherratt]

Well the SoS reviewer made several significant mistakes.

I have the EXB-Radias card and of course the owners' manual is downloadable from Korg's web site by anybody who wants to check the following.

The EXB-RADIAS card supports 24 note polyphony.

The 24 notes can be split among up to 16 timbres/tracks in whatever way you wish. You can use up to 4 different synth sounds simultaneously. So if you are using 16 timbres/tracks you can not have a different RADIAS sound type assigned to each of them, you have to chose up to 4.

You can set up the sounds so they are either monophonic (one note can sound at the same time) or polyphonic (up to 24 notes can sound at the same time).

So I really don't know what the SoS review was talking about.

Best regards,
Rob

[Daz]

The Radias-R lets you edit all 4 timbres (using knobs!) in a multi-timbral context. That can't be done with the EXB-RADIAS (a limitation of Korg's workstations). If you tend to create sounds to fit the context of the piece you're working on that's a major difference. The effects architecture of the R and the support for drumkits and many other peripheral functions make a big difference too.

Same great underlying synth engine ... very different packaging !

Daz.

[CfNorENa]

Rob,

I don't own an M3/EXB Radias (have been researching them as a prospective buyer), so I'm of course happy to defer to your judgment on this! But as I understand it, the reviewer only made one "significant" mistake, i.e. when he did not make it clear that the EXB Radias added 24 voices to the 120 of the M3 (there was a long discussion about this on the KL forums, and I think Jerry answered it conclusively). Other than that mistake, what else did he get wrong?

Los

[Rob Sherratt]

WRONG - "an MMT Program in the EXB-Radias is only mono-timbral"

RIGHT - it is multi-timbral, up to 16 tracks and 24 notes of polyphony with up to 4 different programs in use simultaneously.

WRONG - "you can place up to four EXB-Radias Programs — of which one can be a vocoder Program — into a standard M3 Combi or sequencer setup, which is arguably a much more powerful configuration than the original Radias. "

RIGHT - You can use up to 16 EXB-RADIAS programs into a Combi or Sequencer setup, but you can only use 4 different programs at any one time.

WRONG "If you choose the Radias R, it increases the polyphony of the instrument, whereas the EXB-Radias may not do so, leaving maximum polyphony at 120 voices."

RIGHT - The EXB-Radias adds 24 Radias oscillators to the maximum number of EDS oscillators on the M3 of 120. Note oscillators and polyphony are two different things. It depends how many oscillators are simyultaneously used by each sound.

[CfNorENa]

Rob,

Hate to be a stickler here, but I want to make sure I understand (and I do appreciate that you're taking the time to answer these queries).

It is my understanding that a Radias-R "program" consists of up to four individual timbres, whereas an EXB Radias program consists of only a single timbre, and that whereas you can indeed use up to 4 EXB Radias programs simultaneously, in Combi or Sequencer modes, each of the 4 programs is still itself monotimbral. Isn't that correct, and isn't that what the SoS reviewer was trying to indicate?

Cheers, Los

[Daz]

Rob,

Hate to be a stickler here, but I want to make sure I understand (and I do appreciate that you're taking the time to answer these queries).

It is my understanding that a Radias-R "program" consists of up to four individual timbres, whereas an EXB Radias program consists of only a single timbre, and that whereas you can indeed use up to 4 EXB Radias programs simultaneously, in Combi or Sequencer modes, each of the 4 programs is still itself monotimbral. Isn't that correct, and isn't that what the SoS reviewer was trying to indicate?

Cheers, Los

That is correct.

[BasariStudios]

I would favor the Radias Rack...its just right there, cant be any easier,
you have access to almost ALL parameters on the pannel itself.

[Rob Sherratt]

Rob,

Hate to be a stickler here, but I want to make sure I understand (and I do appreciate that you're taking the time to answer these queries).

It is my understanding that a Radias-R "program" consists of up to four individual timbres, whereas an EXB Radias program consists of only a single timbre, and that whereas you can indeed use up to 4 EXB Radias programs simultaneously, in Combi or Sequencer modes, each of the 4 programs is still itself monotimbral. Isn't that correct, and isn't that what the SoS reviewer was trying to indicate?

Cheers, Los

There is no substantial difference between the Radias-R or the EXB-Radias in regard the number of different timbres that can be played back simultaneously. The answer is 4 in both cases. For the reviewer to describe the EXB-Radias as only having 1 timbre whereas the Radias-R has 4 timbres is completely misleading and might lead a purchasor to believe that with the EXB-radias you can not play 4 different sounds simultaneously.

[Rob Sherratt]

I would favor the Radias Rack...its just right there, cant be any easier,
you have access to almost ALL parameters on the pannel itself.

Hi Nedim,

Yep for those wanting to use knobs instead of say the X-Y motion on the M3 touch screen, then the Radias-R is the answer.

BUT what you would miss is the ability with the EXB-Radias card to integrate the Radias sounds into the built in M3 Karma capabilities. Also you can easily mix the Radias sounds together with M3 sounds and effects and save them as hybrid Combis. You could never do that with the Radias-R which has no integration with the M3 OS apart from what you can do over MIDI.

Have you used either?

Cheers,
Rob

[BasariStudios]

Yes, i have both, the Radias as synth and the EXB. There is something i love
about it, it starts with its predecesor M-20 which i have, then MS2000 which
i have and now the Radias which in a way is based on the MS2000.
Well i am more of a Vintage guy so the synth makes more sense to me.
I always like HANDS ON, i understand the possibilities with the M3 but i still
tend to use the Radias for what its meant to do, Modeling thats way in my way
of working i dont really miss anything from the M3 on the Radias.
If i am doing a recording with both then i combine tracks in the DAW itself.

[georgeinar]

My question is this: since I produce my songs entirely on the m3 in sequence mode (right now with radias exb inside) if I were to add the radias rack, how could I incorporate the sounds from that into my m3 sequences? There is no sequencer on the radias, is that correct? Would I have to simply sample my radias performance into one of my sequencer tracks on the m3, which would mean no going back to tweak a note here or there with event edit etc. I'm a horrible player and never get it all in one take.