EMX 1 or ESX 1? Which one???...

soundklinik33 · Post by **soundklinik33** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:56 pm

Hi,
I am new here so HELLO everybody, and I have a question...
I have decided to get one of these 2 and after downloading both manuals I am still not decided...there is not much explanation of difference btwn the 2.
I am into experimental/DnB/minimal tekno or just making beats with.
What would be a better choice?
I looked at their similarities and differences, but can't figure out the 5 synth parts- EMX vs 2parts-ESX..
Is there much dif. in internal sounds in each?
I like the idea of samples making storing etc ..
Any of you who used them, what do you recommend?
Or what are the drawbacks what the other CAN'T do?
TIA

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sat May 31, 2008 2:26 am

Very very different boxes really. One's a sampler, ones a synth with ROM drum sounds. Maybe the Sound On Sound reviews will help you understand the differences:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov03/a ... rgemx1.htm

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar04/a ... rgesx1.htm

MagpieIndustries · Post by **MagpieIndustries** » Sat May 31, 2008 11:04 am

One good thing to ask yourself is if the music you want to make is more focused on unique sounds and complicated percussive needs. For the minimal tekno, I'd imagine you want a lot of special samples, little clicks and pops and so on. The best way to go about that IMHO is load up some nice samples into the ESX and start messing them up. ESX is definitely more suited for the more modern, minimal styles.

The disadvantage of the esx is that you have to load it with samples, and it's not as immediate or hands-on as the emx. You can end up using a computer, memory cards and wav file editors, which is annoying.

If you will have more synth sounds and melodic content, go for the emx. The drums on it are nothing special, but you'll be able to make pounding techno, DnB, electro, trance and so on, and super quickly and easily. It's got a good classic sound.

The emx really is a total groovebox and you can just switch it on and make full and rich tracks on it immediately. It's awesome for this. It's possible to make similiar tracks with the esx, but it is more difficult, fiddly and time consuming as you end up resampling tracks together to add more synth parts.

There is a big difference in sound, mostly due to the workflow and styles, not really the hardware. When I first got mine, I thought the emx sounded cheesy, as I was into making tech house, minimal tech and glitch. Getting the ESX solved my frustrations with the EMX's limitations in those genres. But after I started making pounding acid techno, I realise I'm using the EMX a lot more cos its quicker and more fun.

soundklinik33 · Post by **soundklinik33** » Sat May 31, 2008 12:44 pm

Thanx for the inputs,
I have LIVE 7 and keyboard controller, Edirol PCR M50.
I hear what you're saying, the only problem is I don't have a chance to even look at the REAL thing...
Just downloaded both manuals, youtube,forums etc.
I am attracted to ESX because of the sound possibilities, where I can load (I think/hope) new samples and have for example a "glitch set" or accoustic set..
Sort of like Native Instruments Battery...
OR am I wrong? I don't care too much load in "loops", that can be done in LIVE.

Quote:The emx really is a total groovebox and you can just switch it on and make full and rich tracks on it immediately. It's awesome for this. It's possible to make similiar tracks with the esx, but it is more difficult, fiddly and time consuming as you end up resampling tracks together to add more synth parts

Is that because of the 5 synth parts in EMX against 2 in ESX??
Can you change/manipulate internal samples in EMX?
THANX

MagpieIndustries · Post by **MagpieIndustries** » Sat May 31, 2008 1:01 pm

soundklinik33 wrote:Thanx for the inputs,
I have LIVE 7 and keyboard controller, Edirol PCR M50.
I hear what you're saying, the only problem is I don't have a chance to even look at the REAL thing...
Just downloaded both manuals, youtube,forums etc.
I am attracted to ESX because of the sound possibilities, where I can load (I think/hope) new samples and have for example a "glitch set" or accoustic set..
Sort of like Native Instruments Battery...
OR am I wrong? I don't care too much load in "loops", that can be done in LIVE.

Quote:The emx really is a total groovebox and you can just switch it on and make full and rich tracks on it immediately. It's awesome for this. It's possible to make similiar tracks with the esx, but it is more difficult, fiddly and time consuming as you end up resampling tracks together to add more synth parts

Is that because of the 5 synth parts in EMX against 2 in ESX??
Can you change/manipulate internal samples in EMX?
THANX

Yeah the extra synth parts are often very useful to have. For instance, you might have two different bass sounds that gel together to create a decent bassline, and also have a lead sound, and maybe some extra swooshes or bleeps. To get the same on the esx, you'd need to create both basslines, resample the output into one sample, and reassign that to the synth part, then create a swoosh, and resample again and reassign to the synth part, and use the synth part again for creating a new sound. So you can stack up sounds like this but its much quicker on the emx (and you can edit them at will) cos you have 5 seperate parts. The sample management on the esx gets in the way somewhat, even if it gives you more sound possibilities.

The EMX lets you spin a dial to select the basic synth waveform, and then you have a few other knobs for tweaking the sound. On the esx, you can get similiar results, but you will need to have a sample with correctly placed loop points already made, and you cant easily tweak any extra parameters. (both units have the same tweakable effects, so i dont bother mentioning them here). So for synth sounds, you can do it with the esx, but the emx is lots nicer and faster.

The esx has the added bonus of sending the drums through the filter. I dont know why the emx lacks that, it's just stupid.

You can use loops in really creative ways on the esx, you can make them stutter and jerk and play backwards and pitch wildly up and down and run them through all the effects and filters, and this is a pretty good way to make glitchy tracks. When it's all messed up, you can save that as a loop, and redo the whole thing again using all new effects. You can come across wonderful random and inspirational sounds like this. You can also program in the start positions in a loop and get beat-repeat like effects. There are plenty of different techniques useful for breakbeat cutting and DnB styles, on the emx you'd need to program each hit individually.

MagpieIndustries · Post by **MagpieIndustries** » Sat May 31, 2008 1:03 pm

Both machines are really good at what they do, it might be easier if you describe your style and workflow and what you'd like the music to sound like. Easier just to recommend one machine that way

reddone · Post by **reddone** » Sat May 31, 2008 1:03 pm

I'll say get an mx , for sure . To be straight the drums in the mx are limiting at times , but when u learn it properly to suit your particular styles you end up making some really great sounding rythms to go with your synth . The machine is a modern classic

I had the same debate as yourself 4-5 years ago , but im glad i chose the mx as it constantly surprises me just when i think i know it fully .

True , sampling is missing but personally i recommend making synth sounds rather than sampling them . When u can do that then maybe think of a sampler you could buy for less than an esx and controll it from the mx .. while sticking it thru the mx tubes ( the way i do it ).

This way you get great synth sounds and sampling for just above the emx price

. But .. i gotta say much as i love my oldskool es-1 , im gripped to the mx DAILY and hav been for a long time . Get an EMX1 + Hi-qaulity tubes ...

Note: You can send the emx drums thru the filter and also modulate the cutoff , osc1+osc2 etc ... by selcting the drums on the synth pcm dial , as each step is a different drum . SO MUCH is posible . Wave shapeing the drums sounds awesome with that electro beltch . its also great hitting multiple keys and having the arpeggiator play strings of drum hits ... coolness !!

Alot of the drum sounds created this way would be extremly hard to replicate elsewhere . it uses a synth up but so what .

Or you could use the fx to filter . Mx my man . it'll stand the test of time for sure

Setsonics · Post by **Setsonics** » Sat May 31, 2008 6:21 pm

The ESX also has a slice feature and stretch parts for time stretching a sample to a certain tempo without adjusting the pitch.

soundklinik33 · Post by **soundklinik33** » Sat May 31, 2008 7:15 pm

MagpieIndustries wrote:Both machines are really good at what they do, it might be easier if you describe your style and workflow and what you'd like the music to sound like. Easier just to recommend one machine that way

What I like is experimental, DnB, minimal techno, that kind of music ...
(I use Live7 and NIs Electronic instruments 2XT)

I see that they are both great machines because those who got MX swear by them and so do the SXers..

With MX, I am just affraid that I might grow tired of the internal drum sounds, (noob opinion), (and wish I got SX), while in SX you can load/create your own "kits/samples", am I right? or left?...

anselmi · Post by **anselmi** » Sat May 31, 2008 7:28 pm

soundklinik33 wrote:
MagpieIndustries wrote:Both machines are really good at what they do, it might be easier if you describe your style and workflow and what you'd like the music to sound like. Easier just to recommend one machine that way
What I like is experimental, DnB, minimal techno, that kind of music ...
(I use Live7 and NIs Electronic instruments 2XT)

I see that they are both great machines because those who got MX swear by them and so do the SXers..
With MX, I am just affraid that I might grow tired of the internal drum sounds, (noob opinion), (and wish I got SX), while in SX you can load/create your own "kits/samples", am I right? or left?...

you can edit the drum sounds on the MX to a certain degree...with some work you can get lots of variation by using tune/modulation and decay parameters and by combining 2 sounds to create another

also, think taht way...in the ESX you got just 2 synth parts...if you dedicate 2 synth parts to this task in the MX you still have 5 more parts to make several different percussions and other stuf to complement the drum parts...

I have both, but if I have to choose what to get first I´m sure I choose the MX...

get it , I´m sure you don´t be dissapointed with it

I don´t try d&b music on the MX but I´m sure it doesn´t very difficult to get it sound that way

about minimal some users became very ungry with one of my post about some tricks to make the mx sounds as actual minimal productions, but anyway you can achieve this kind of sound by doing this stuff:

keep things short...use the decay to make all things shorter...

avoid saw waves...instead use more sine, triangle and square ones...

a goofd reverb is key for minimal but the MX lacks it...try it anyway, maybe through a slighty resonant LPF

avoid filter sweeps, but not static filters with high resonance

use the EG for the amp and the modulator in decay mode for modulate the filter, so you win more control over volume and timbre

use the edit 1 control for the sine wave on the waveform oscillator to get some harmonics from it and rise interest

use the percussion aprts with short attacks and the modulation section to the AM in decay mode with lots of amount and full short decays to get a more snnappy and peaky sound...in some percussion use it tomodulate pitch the same way

use a lot of tuned percussion to build a kind of "harmonic" percussive background in key witha a sine or filtered square bassline

use small toms and small pops (maybe tuned up toms)

use more VPM with SIn+SIn configuration and the modulation section in decay mode controlling oscillator edit 1...the try different settings of EDIT 2...this is a simple 2 operators FM whith the mod section as the modulator EG and the EDIT 2 as the frequency ratio

same considerations for cross modulation

that way you can get percussive FM sequences

the comb oscillator could deliver more "digital" tones that could suit minimal productions very well

also some of the digital spectrum ROMples make a good job

use retriggers to get more TRRR glitchy fx, ina motion sequence to make it in certains parts of the pattern

soundklinik33 · Post by **soundklinik33** » Sat May 31, 2008 9:16 pm

Setsonics wrote:The ESX also has a slice feature and stretch parts for time stretching a sample to a certain tempo without adjusting the pitch.

I have a question for you on the ESX1, when I watch your videos, you are very busy with all the buttons/ knobs,etc? What are you doing?
I imagine that the structure of the song like patterns/beats are already sequenced? You do FX on the fly?
Do you use xternal sequencer software like Live to trigger the keyboard?

Listening to your videos makes me want to get ESX1!
Great music

my kind of sound...

TrondC · Post by **TrondC** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:36 pm

soundklinik33 wrote:
Setsonics wrote:The ESX also has a slice feature and stretch parts for time stretching a sample to a certain tempo without adjusting the pitch.
I have a question for you on the ESX1, when I watch your videos, you are very busy with all the buttons/ knobs,etc? What are you doing?
I imagine that the structure of the song like patterns/beats are already sequenced? You do FX on the fly?
Do you use xternal sequencer software like Live to trigger the keyboard?

Listening to your videos makes me want to get ESX1!
Great music my kind of sound...

I've always just pre-sequenced as much as possible before I play, so basically I just press the play-button, maybe tweaking some FX or filters real time.
As quoted above, the ESX have 2 stretch parts which are truly fantastic tools. I've recently imported a couple jungle breaks into mine, anc coupled with the slice part, this alone makes for some very very wicked drum loops that do not sound like the original sample at all, while still sounding a thousand timess better than anything one can create with a sequencer that has as bad resolution as the emx/esx. I'd say you get either one first, and I'm sure you'll want the other to have the full duo. I know I'm getting an EMX, some day...

soundklinik33 · Post by **soundklinik33** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:58 pm

Thank you ALL for your advice.
WOW I got an ESX1, it is on the way,

so, not knowing much about them , I made a hard decision, based also on youtube sounds/videos looking for sound and features...
Cheers

Teocida · Post by **Teocida** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:25 pm

I have some questions. I don't speak english very well and i can't understand perfectly the diferences between both in the official web.

I want to buy one of them, but i don't know if ESX has any synth sound. EMX has 76, i think, but what about ESX. Does ESX only accept sampling?

I would like to hit some sample built by me. I have Kaoss Pad3 and the sampler SP-404. Could I get the EMX if I use a syncro with KP3 or SP-404 or do i have to buy the ESX?

I hope you to understand me :S

Greetings!!

musikmachine · Post by **musikmachine** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:56 am

Teocida wrote:I have some questions. I don't speak english very well and i can't understand perfectly the diferences between both in the official web.

I want to buy one of them, but i don't know if ESX has any synth sound. EMX has 76, i think, but what about ESX. Does ESX only accept sampling?

I would like to hit some sample built by me. I have Kaoss Pad3 and the sampler SP-404. Could I get the EMX if I use a syncro with KP3 or SP-404 or do i have to buy the ESX?

I hope you to understand me :S

Greetings!!

The ESX has two synth parts.The sounds are pretty basic but definitely usable.It comes preloaded with samples so you can start using it straight away.Sounds great as well.I've only had mine a day so i can't tell you too much about it but i liked it immediately.

It's aimed at sampling and if that's what your after i'd recommend it.I think you can treat samples like synth voices anyway but the SX is more aimed percussive stuff.

No you don't need the SX to use the MX,they are seperate instruments.The MX and SX would be a good combo though.

I've not used an SP404 but you should be able to sync it via midi and chain the kp3 so the fx are in sync as well if that's what you mean.

Imo they are both very different.If you want something like rebirth-on-steroids in a box get the MX but if you want to load your own samples and manipulate them get the SX.It sounds like you have samples covered if you have the SP404 so the MX might be better for you..

If you get the mx i'd recommend getting some better tubes,they really improve the sound.Funny thing is,the SX sounds really good with the stock tubes;no distortion when i turn the gain up past halfway..