Indian Tanpura...guys i need help...

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Sat May 10, 2008 1:36 am

Here is the instrument Fahim sent me, this is how it sounds like:

http://www.speedyshare.com/251201602.html

Now there is a problem, when you guys say doesnt LOOP correctly, what
do you mean by that? Doesnt LOOP as a SOUND or as a LOOP in a PAD or
Style? First of all there is nothing percussive in this sound to be LOOPED,
i dont understand nor see a point of using this in a rhythm. Maybe i am
wrong but its hard to understand its use in a Style, in a Sound yes i can
LOOP it but how the hell would i loop this in a style. There is not BEAT infor
on this AUDIO, its just a sound, i dont know if anyone understands me what
i am trying to say but to make things short, this thing cannot be loope or
used in a Style as a percussive instrument, i still dont get how can one
LOOP this to a Beat/Tempo???

???

OmarNoori · Post by **OmarNoori** » Sat May 10, 2008 1:44 am

nedim, in south asian music we use the tanpura kind of like a pad to fill up the music, i think what he meant is to use it as a pad so it loops its self over at a steady rate (not synced with the beat).

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Sat May 10, 2008 1:50 am

Thats not possible either, this thing has no tempo to it to lock to a beat,
it cant be used that way. The best way to use it is to create a sound of it
not a groove, first of all groove doesnt do transpose, if its sound you can
at least controll it same as BASS and ACC. You make a sound from it and
then you just record it same as any other track the way you want to.
And if its used the way you described??? No way in HELL can someone
loop this to a beat, i can loop it in Recycle or Pro Tools and LOCK it to a
certain Tempo. Whats gonna happen when you LOAD it in PA800? And then
change tempos and stuff, mess all over.

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Sat May 10, 2008 1:51 am

I'll try to come up with something, if i ever do, i'll try to cut the end cuz
in there i hear a little pitch changing, i'll just leave it as a constant pitch
and probably lock tempo to it so the PA800 can treat it as any other loop
but i still dont see it possible. The only way to do it is straight on the PA800
which i dont have right now and i still doubt that way too.

OmarNoori · Post by **OmarNoori** » Sat May 10, 2008 5:05 am

dont worry nedim, lol i will try to sample this and share it on the forums since you might not be familiar of how we use the tanpura lol.

roadster_32 · Post by **roadster_32** » Sat May 10, 2008 6:19 am

Hi Tanpura is just a 4 stringed indian instrument used in classical indian music, it is a drone instrument which repeats the same notes over and over for harmonic effect, so I think you guys need to get a one shot sample of each string and make a multisample as nedim said then make different drones by making new pads from scratch!

In opinion that is the best way of making it otherwise if you want to change your key then it wont match cos it wont tranpose and also it needs to match your rhythm either!

Hope it helps!

roadster_32 · Post by **roadster_32** » Sat May 10, 2008 6:28 am

BasariStudios wrote:I'll try to come up with something, if i ever do, i'll try to cut the end cuz
in there i hear a little pitch changing, i'll just leave it as a constant pitch
and probably lock tempo to it so the PA800 can treat it as any other loop
but i still dont see it possible. The only way to do it is straight on the PA800
which i dont have right now and i still doubt that way too.

Hey Nedim,

Each string of this tanpura is tuned to a different note so the change in pitch you hear is suppose to be there, I dont think it is possible to cut each different note from a tanpura wave file as it is a drone and different notes overlap so i'll see if I can find one shot samples of tanpura and send it to u or who ever wants it!

sehasafade12 · Post by **sehasafade12** » Sat May 10, 2008 6:41 am

BasariStudios wrote:I'll try to come up with something, if i ever do, i'll try to cut the end cuz
in there i hear a little pitch changing, i'll just leave it as a constant pitch
and probably lock tempo to it so the PA800 can treat it as any other loop
but i still dont see it possible. The only way to do it is straight on the PA800
which i dont have right now and i still doubt that way too.

Hello Nedim:

Tanpura is a stringed sound that is used as a background sound, meaning Indian and Afghan musicians use Tanpura sound to keep them self in tune. The actual Tanpura instrument is used a lot by Indian and Afghan musicians. Now days, you can buy a Tanpura sound machine that produces almost the same sound as Tanpura and yes, you can change the tempo. The Tanpura sound I sent you, is from my SU200 sampler and believe me, it works fine on this sampler. I thought since Pa800 is also a sampler, therefore this sound should also work on the Pa800 too (was I wrong! Sad...). I think Omar Noori and roadster_32 explained much better and more clear..... Thanks again for your always help and support. By the way I only wanted to use this sound as a PAD only on the Pa800 and just want it to repeat itself similar to a looped beat...

Also I like to acknowledge and thank Omar jan and roadster_32 for their info and support.

Best Regards,

Fahim,

naweed jan · Post by **naweed jan** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:17 pm

sallam Fahim jan i have lots of Tanpura loops. i just came to this post right now if i know you need i would have kindly sent to you.

Fahim jan plz let me know if you still need Tanpura Loops or just the Tanpura by it self

A.K. · Post by **A.K.** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:37 am

Best way to loop a tanpura would be to give each string the same amount of time. make sure there is some reverb even delay to add more effect to to the drone. Even though each string is given its own sound you need to be able to fade in and fade out on each string it give it perfect effect. So lets take the first string, before it ends you need to start the second string so they sound like they kind of over lap. Don't try to play all four strings and then loop you have to be able to play each string on its own and then truncate it to where it fades and out. This is the best way to properly loop Tanpura.

Keep in mind there are two types of tanpura, male and female. The female version is a little smaller and bigger version is of course male. Female version is best to sample as its a bit more sharper sound and not as deep so you can EQ it properly. Hope this helps.

Armaan

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:58 pm

Just a few thoughts about sound sampling and looping of non-percussion sounds, dunno if it's applicable in the case of the tanpura sample, because I don't have a tanpura to play with, so please don't flame me if it's inappropriate.

When you record a sound sample (eg an electro acoustic guitar, or a piano) the sound on the natural instrument decays slowly. So maybe 1 Mbyte of storage is taken for the main attack and first couple of seconds of the sound, and then maybe 5 Mbytes of storage is taken up for the slowly decaying sustained portion of the sound over 10 seconds while the sound decays away to nothing. So, you have a 6 Mbyte sample for every note that you sampled.

It is good practice to sample three notes per octave (C, D#, F#), over at least 5 octaves maybe 6 or 7 even depending on the instrument. So you can end up with say 5 * 3 * 6 Mbytes of samples = 90 Mbytes. Now if all these samples were built into a multisample (stretching each sample + and - 1 semitone) and a sound, you would have to load 90 Mbytes into User RAM before you could play the sound. That takes up to 25 seconds on a Pa2x and is impossible on a Pa1x or Pa800 due to sample RAM limit being exceeded.

Now, what you can do to be really clever on a Pa2x/Pa800 when creating the samples in the first place is to set a loop start point within each sample at the start of the decay/sustain portion of the sound, and a loop end point say two full wave cycles later, both start and end points auto selected to be at a zero crossing interval in the sound waveform. Therefore the tail end of the sound will continue "looping" at a constant amplitude, instead of decaying away.

Then when you create the multisample and link it into a sound you can create an ADSR envelope (Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release) and you can recreate the characteristic of the original instrument by setting the type of Decay and Sustain curve (eg linear, exponential etc) with the right sort of decay time. This Decay/ Sustain curve will override the contant amplitude at the tail of the samples, and will lead to a very smooth and pleasant sounding decay with no abrupt cut off in volume if you sustain (hold) the note for a long time until it becomes inaudible.

Also by "looping" the tail of each sample, you can reduce say 90 Mbytes of storage down to 15 Mbytes of storage. This will load in less than 10 seconds on a Pa2x and of course it can also be loaded on a Pa800 and a Pa1x.

If you don't "loop" the decay portion of sampled sounds, the alternative technique is just to "cut the sample short". This can result in a nasty click at the end of the sound where the volume goes from something to nothing very abruptly if you play it in a sustained/ held way.

Anyway, like I said I don't know if any of this is applicable to the tanpura sound which is the topic under discussion, and my apologies once again if I've given irrelevant or unwanted information.