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Will the New Fantom Motivate Korg ?
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GregC
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:42 pm    Post subject: Will the New Fantom Motivate Korg ? Reply with quote

I have read the following statement about +100 times here:

"Korg does not have to do anything better than Kronos.
Kronos owns the workstation space and has no competition.
So why should Korg bother ? "

I do NOT think like that.

I think its a mistake for a company to be complacent.

I think competition is great. And I think Roland has seriously
changed the game.

So why wait for NAMM 2020 ? Why wait at all ?
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kbrkr
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me ask you a personal question; do you think your Roland FA-07 sounds as sonically good as the Kronos? It's a real question and I'm not being facetious.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbrkr wrote:
Let me ask you a personal question; do you think your Roland FA-07 sounds as sonically good as the Kronos? It's a real question and I'm not being facetious.


I don't see that as personal.

I have posted numerous times that the FA has strengths where Kronos is not as strong.

Vice versa, Kronos has strengths the FA can't touch.

Lets consider acoustic instruments. FA guitars are way stronger than Kronos.
FA has some DAW integration. Kronos does not.

I have listed this ' compare ' in late 2017, or early 2018.

The signature Roland sound and Korg is a nice combination. And it solves some polyphony problems I have with Kronos.

I really don't see the FA as a Kronos replacement. Both have an important role IMO.Together.
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19naia
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have to admit that this is actually Rolands first real attempt to catch up to Kronos.
And that just may be all the new Fantom is. An equalizer between the brands.
It looks like it holds up well next to Kronos and Montage.
Maybe even Outdoing Montage.
Still not sure how far it goes in outdoing Kronos, but it looks like Kronos may still have some aspects that the new Fantom cannot match for taking buyers away from Korg.

I am still stuck in the middle, until i learn more about the Fantom.
Karma alone is keeping me from being eager to jump ship.

At this point, if Korg wants to stay ahead like it has all these years with Kronos, now is the time to start working on something to lead the way of the next generation.
This new Fantom may be a delayed catching up to Kronos, but Roland made up for the delay by pushing into the next generation territory.
Extra USB ports, CV/Gate connect, and whatever else in the controls and parameters.
Nothing really all that new in the new Fantom, just stuff from their wide array of gear, combined into a new workstation.
The pattern recording section is new for a workstation but old stuff for Roland gear. It was neat to see the 16 pads on FA when Kronos did away with the 8 pads that started out with OASYS.
Now we have fantom with the 16pads and another 16 beat making buttons for TR style pattern programing.
And that is why the CV/Gate ports are on the rear panel.. To match the TR style drum machines that rely on CV/Gate Also the Analog style filters.

Korg Kross added pads. Korg has accessories(dongles) for pads to add to kronos, and pad utility in the kronos system. So it isn’t really missing from kronos.
So what does that really leave kronos needing to evolve into for leading the way again?
Copy Roland and add TR stuff that isn’t really Korg’s thing?
Add Analog style filters and CV/Gate ports?
Add more ports in general, to the rear?

I am still not sure where Korg needs to go with the next generation.
Maybe Quality control would be a good start. Making a more reliable flagship workstation.

BTW. I just listed my Kronos for sale.
Making a big move and even my house is listed for sale.
Kronos has been in storage for a while -and all through to end of next year it will remain in storage if i don’t pay to ship it .
It is in storage because it ends up costing as much to buy a second kronos if i ship the Kronos around every time i change which side of the planet i live.

I will try to sell it and then decide what will work best for me once i get settled into my big move + changes in travel routine and routes.
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PCFREE
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This new line is very expensive !

I notice there’s no sampling - just sample import
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GregC
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

19naia wrote:

1)Korg Kross added pads. Korg has accessories(dongles) for pads to add to kronos, and pad utility in the kronos system. So it isn’t really missing from kronos.


BTW.2) I just listed my Kronos for sale.
Making a big move and even my house is listed for sale.
Kronos has been in storage for a while -and all through to end of next year it will remain in storage if i don’t pay to ship it .
It is in storage because it ends up costing as much to buy a second kronos if i ship the Kronos around every time i change which side of the planet i live.

I will try to sell it and then decide what will work best for me once i get settled into my big move + changes in travel routine and routes.


1) I wouldn't mention Kross. flyweight key bed. A non-starter.

2) I forget what country you are in. If you are in the US, you are selling your K into a strong head wind for a used sale. . +50 used for sale, mostly private parties on eBay.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCFREE wrote:
This new line is very expensive !

I notice there’s no sampling - just sample import


So is Montage ! So is 8 yr old Kronos

However, I think the used market for Kronos is the place to buy one.
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kbrkr
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read the Fantom has sampling (for the pads), but doesn't have Multi-Samples. It is hinted as a future upgraded.

Also, does the Fantom have COSM Drawbar modeling like in the VK series?
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benny ray
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg I was gonna post the same topic. I think the ROLAND will be good competition for the KRONOS.

The one thing I like about ROLAND is if you need tech support they have a 1- 800 number and a tech will guide you thru the questions that you have. I assume he has the keyboard in front of him and guides you step by step.

From my understand the Fantom has the same keybed as the RD-2000. I have the RD-2000 and the keybed is really good.
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Mike Conway
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

19naia wrote:
It looks like it holds up well next to Kronos and Montage.
Maybe even Outdoing Montage.


The new Fantom looks/sounds wonderful. Between the Montage and the Fantom, I would take that Fantom. Analog Filter!!!!!

Supposedly, more is being developed for it. From Roland's site:

Quote:
ONE ENGINE. INFINITE POSSIBILITIES.....
....FANTOM is part of an expandable platform, with new sounds and new possibilities coming.



Quote:
Still not sure how far it goes in outdoing Kronos, but it looks like Kronos may still have some aspects that the new Fantom cannot match


I really really like the three sequencing styles, but..... Is there audio track recording. Sure you can hook up a DAW, but can you record audio tracks in stand alone? If this thing had the audio manipulation features that the new MC707 has, it would put this in the stratosphere.

It samples, but as stated, I don't think it multisamples.

As for Kronos, I'll take the FM sound engine, audio recording, multisampling, and all the rest. Nothing is replacing it, but this Fantom would be a great addition. As much as the MODX appealed to me, this new Fantom supercedes it. Even at the price difference.

What this should show Korg is that a sequencer is one of the most important parts of a workstation. The Sequencer on the new Fantom is amazing!!!


Last edited by Mike Conway on Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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GregC
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Conway wrote:
[

What this should show Korg is that a sequencer is one of the most important parts of a workstation. The Sequencer on the new Fantom is amazing!!!


You tell em, brother !
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GregC
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

benny ray wrote:
Greg I was gonna post the same topic. I think the ROLAND will be good competition for the KRONOS.

The one thing I like about ROLAND is if you need tech support they have a 1- 800 number and a tech will guide you thru the questions that you have. I assume he has the keyboard in front of him and guides you step by step.

From my understand the Fantom has the same keybed as the RD-2000. I have the RD-2000 and the keybed is really good.


I agree , Benny. Prompt professional help for customers is the standard. Roland gets that and walks the walk.
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psionic311
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

19naia wrote:
At this point, if Korg wants to stay ahead like it has all these years with Kronos, now is the time to start working on something to lead the way of the next generation.
This new Fantom may be a delayed catching up to Kronos, but Roland made up for the delay by pushing into the next generation territory.


Korg has some work cut out for them
Hopefully they've been working behind the scenes
Starting now is too late, takes years for R&D and bringing to market


Quote:
Extra USB ports, CV/Gate connect, and whatever else in the controls and parameters.
Nothing really all that new in the new Fantom, just stuff from their wide array of gear, combined into a new workstation.
The pattern recording section is new for a workstation but old stuff for Roland gear.


Agreed.
Kronos USB support was ahead of its time
(DAW not so much)
Roland mostly has just compiled their tech into one package

But they are leaders in workstation hardware sequencing.
This is where Kronos needs to catch up the most.
That, and DAW integration.
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psionic311
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCFREE wrote:
This new line is very expensive !

I notice there’s no sampling - just sample import


Expensive, and still a bit heavy and extra wide.
These are rompler hardware workstations
Their primary market are gigging musicians
Would have been nice if they made it more gig friendly

Sampling seems to be one-shot
But layering and variations are really cool
SuperNatural probably already has bread and butter covered
And cover songs just need one-shot samples anyway

Beat makers usually just use single-shot loops as well
And soft synths and samplers like Kontakt are ITB anyway

Kronos still is king of hardware samplers with SSD + streaming
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GregC
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

psionic311 wrote:
[.


Korg has some work cut out for them
Hopefully they've been working behind the scenes
Starting now is too late, takes years for R&D and bringing to market



Agreed.
Kronos USB support was ahead of its time
(DAW not so much)
Roland mostly has just compiled their tech into one package

But they are leaders in workstation hardware sequencing.
This is where Kronos needs to catch up the most.
That, and DAW integration.[/quote]

All solid points. The wish list for Kronos is very long.

IMO, Korg might have to start from scratch to eliminate the limits and obstacles of the aged tech.

Its unfortunate Korg never addressed DAW Integration and a stronger SEQ with Kronos. I understand a new W/s cannot have it all, but it I have been saying its past the tipping point for some time for Korg.

It takes a Roland to show how its done. If you notice the new Fantom is ready to ship ! This shows excellent planning .
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