Korg Forums

[Bitflipper]

I've been disappointed by the CX-3, which seems kind of thin and fake-sounding compared to more modern Hammond emulations. Its Leslie simulation is especially weak, IMO. I even bought the third-party Organimation patch lib for the Kronos, and although it's a step up it's still not on par with my old XK-1.

So I recently did an experiment that turned out well enough to share, and that's using VB3 on a laptop and controlling it from the Kronos.

If you're not familiar with VB3, it's an inexpensive (50 bucks) Hammond emulator VST that's about as close to a real Hammond sound as anything out there. Run it through a Ventilator and it's durn-near indistinguishable from the real thing. VB3 is also the engine under the hood of the Crumar Mojo.

VB3 has long been my go-to virtual organ for recording, and it's been frustrating not having it available to me for live performance. So I loaded it into SAVIHost, a free (sorry, Windows-only) VST host on my laptop, ran a USB cable from the Kronos and took an output from the laptop's headphone jack.

Surprisingly, it sounded pretty good, using just the integrated Realtek audio interface through the headphone out. The Kronos sliders mapped to the drawbars automatically, and the sustain pedal automatically mapped to the Leslie speed switch, so all I had to do was MIDI-learn the swell pedal and away I went.

The last hurdle now is a way to control the laptop's volume. Using the same pedal as the Kronos' isn't practical; I need a separate volume control. Using a mouse or touchpad is absolutely impractical. So I'm wondering if anyone here has experience with one of the USB volume knobs.

This one seems like it might do the job: https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Control-Controller-Adjusting-Computers/dp/B016U2KXCG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1477359417&sr=8-3&keywords=usb+volume+knob

Anybody used one?

[SanderXpander]

You could use/assign one of the real-time knobs on the Kronos? You could also use the Kronos as audio interface by the way. It's very basic but for softsynth playback it works well enough.

[steeve76]

[Bitflipper]

Thanks for that, Steve. I want to know more about that...I've never used the Kronos audio inputs. If I run the laptop into them, how do I go about assigning a control for volume, that won't interfere with other assignments for other patches? Using a dedicated MIDI channel, perhaps?

(BTW, I forgot to mention that I am indeed using ASIO4All. It's the only way I could get the latency down low enough with SAVIHost.)

[SanderXpander]

You don't need to use audio leads at all, you can use USB audio. There's no need for ASIO4ALL if your host supports WDM driver mode. Just select the Kronos as your audio device. In the Kronos audio in menu (globally or per patch) direct the USB audio ins to an output (probably L/R or an IFX slot). Don't forget to pan. You can set the volume there on the touch screen or switch your control surface to the audio ins and use the sliders.

[Bitflipper]

I don't know why, but I initially got no audio at all out of SAVIHost until out of desperation I installed ASIO4All. To make sure it wasn't a fluke, I uninstalled ASIO4All and again could get no sound with any combination of options. Put ASIO4All back on and now there's audio again. But that's a mystery for another day. Not going to worry about it.

I now have audio over USB, which is an improvement because it means fewer cables, so thanks for suggesting that.

[phattbuzz]

Interesting that talk about the VB3 has come up. I was thinking about getting a Mojo and then I saw the GSi DM-122 which is a double manual organ controller which looks a LOT like a Crumar Mojo. As I read more about it I found that the same guy is responsible for both companies, GSi and Crumar. GSi is responsible for the VB3 software and the GSi Burn Rotating Speaker Simulator.
The DM-122 can work as a full organ interface for the VB3 software OR you can install an expander module called the Gemini. The Gemini has the VB3 software installed and 14 other synth engines. Unfortunately you cannot layer or split these engines like you can with the Kronos, but they sound really good. Here's a link to their page: http://www.genuinesoundware.com/
_________________
Latest Set Up: Kronos 61, Casio Privia, Korg TR61, EoWave Ribbon, Roli Rise 48, TEC Breath Controller, StudioLogic MP-117 Bass Pedals, Moog Theremini.
Past Instruments of Construction: Hammond A100 w/Leslie 760, Korg R3, Roland AxSynth, Korg Poly61, Korg M1, Univox MaxiKorg, Korg MS2000, (2) Moog Concertmate MG1, (2) Hammond X5, Rhodes Mark I & 2, Farfisa Compact, Yamaha S08, Casio SK1, Strymon Mobius, Custom Bass Pedals, Burns B3 Theremin.

[steeve76]

[Bitflipper]

I've been lusting after a Crumar Mojo for a while, but can't justify it financially. After all, I just bought a Kronos this year...no need to be irresponsible!

The VB3 solution was really an afterthought. My real motivation was to try out Spectrasonics' Keyscape on stage (which is working out great, btw!) and maybe Omnisphere. But organs are Kronos' greatest weakness, IMO, and I play a lot of organ onstage. So I figured, why not give VB3 a try?

An update on my progress in that regard: I have switched plugin hosts from SAVIHost to VSTHost, its predecessor. VSTHost does everything SAVIHost does and much more. Most important, it can load multiple VSTs and chain them in any order. That allows me to add EQ after VB3, which otherwise sounds overly boomy through my amplifiers and steps on the bass player if I use my left hand.

Another footnote: I had a heckuva time getting audio over USB to work. I'd get horrid bursts of noise or no sound at all.

The magic tweak was to raise the SAVIHost buffer size. I still don't know why there's a separate setting even when ASIO is in control, but I discovered that although the ASIO buffer could be set to 64 samples, the buffer spec in SAVIHost needed to be 200 or higher. Surprisingly, this does not appear to affect latency, which suggests that it's a pre-buffer going into the ASIO (actually WDM; I'm using ASIO4All) buffer. Whatever the reason, increasing that parameter made audio over USB suddenly viable.

I am now ready to put this setup to the test on Saturday night.

[SanderXpander]

Cool!

Personally I would recommend dedicating a separate patch on your Kronos to VB3 use. Enable the USB audio in only on that patch. You can then also direct it to an IFX slot so you could use a Kronos EQ if you want.

I've been wanting to buy Keyscape by the way, I tried the piano and it was really really good, but I just bought a new laptop and I kinda need a larger SSD if I'm gonna install another 70GB of samples... Decisions, decisions

[steeve76]

[SanderXpander]

That would certainly be nice, it's unlikely though. But fortunately if you bring a laptop you can already get that with a simple USB connection

[PCFREE]

[steeve76]

[Bitflipper]