Kronos pianos versus Casio PX-5S

[psionic311]

I've only had one audition of the Privia PX-5S with a pair of cheap headphones at a Sam Ash. Of course the forums rave about the piano, but I'm wondering how any Kronos users who also own the Privia feel about the various pianos.

I've heard the new Berlin grand cuts better in a band mix in a live environment. I haven't got the Berlin yet because if the Privia performs better, I'd rather use that $250 towards a new Privia.

Anyone own both the Kronos and a Privia?

[danmusician]

I own both. All other things being equal, I'd go with the Kronos.

The difference between the two is negligible, in my opinion. For exposed piano, I give the edge to the Kronos for realism. For playing in a band or mix, they both do well.

If I'm doing a gig where I'll only play piano, DP, bass splits and pad layers, I'll take the PX-5S. For live use, it sounds close enough to the Kronos that no audience will notice the difference. It's so much lighter and easier to transport.

However, most of my work is as a one-man-band. I use Set List, Sequences and KARMA patterns heavily. For that, I want the Kronos. I'd like to use a USB stick in the PX-5S to play audio recordings of the tracks, but it doesn't start at the same instant that you hit play.

If I could only have one keyboard, it would be the Kronos. For studio work, I definitely prefer the Kronos. For live work and portability, the PX-5S is an awesome choice.

[pedro5]

A couple of questions for danmusician ,please.

How does the hammer action feel between the two ?
Also..Is the Casio keybed any quieter than the Kronos ?

Thanks.

[danmusician]

A couple of questions for danmusician ,please.

How does the hammer action feel between the two ?
Also..Is the Casio keybed any quieter than the Kronos ?

Thanks.

I find the hammer action to be very similar. I bought the PX-5S to use as a controller for my Kronos 73 that was damaged in a car accident. It's the perfect match in my opinion. I really like the touch of the weighted Kronos. When MIDI'ed up, the PX feels like I'm playing my K. I would add that I've noticed that when playing the PX, it responds a little more like an acoustic action. By that I mean that I need to play through the bottom of the key throw to get a consistent sound.

I'm not bothered by the noise of the Kronos, so I never thought about whether the PX is quieter. I'm not in my studio, but off the top of my head I'd guess that the PX might be quieter.

If it wouldn't be that I don't want to travel to gigs with 2 keyboards, I think the perfect combination is a Kronos 63 and the PX-5S.

One other thought: when the PX first came out, some were drawn to it for the string resonance. To my ear, it wasn't a very natural sounding string resonance imitation. Since it's been added to the Kronos, I think the string resonance is more convincing on the K. That said, I rarely have turned on anyway.

Just for clarity, I have a rig semi-permanently set up at my church with the damaged Kronos73 and a PX-5S. I play that nearly every week. I have a replacement K73 that I do full gigs with. I bought a second PX-5S that I use for gigs where I might only be doing a few songs or only playing piano without my tracks. With the PX and the Bose L1 compact, I can set up in under ten minutes (including load-in!) and have a complete system ready to play for 150 people.

[danmusician]

BTW, there are many PX-5S/Kronos owners on this board. Hopefully, they will chime in with their opinions!

[scottkahn]

Interesting question! I reviewed the PX-5S this past year, used it for a couple of months, during which time I also had my Kronos X-73 as the main fixture in my keyboard rig.

The PX-5S has excellent piano sounds... but not in the same class as the Kronos X. There's more three-dimensionality and richness to the tone of the Korg piano, whereas the Casio tone comes across as thin, sort of like how a modeling guitar amp captures the sonic footprint of an amp but often times lacks the depth of the real tube tone. It's a similar comparison here, where the Casio tone has the details, but lacks the presence. Like the other poster said, in a band mix you won't hear that difference, but in the studio you certainly will.

Feel: If you never spent time on Korg/Yamaha/Roland, pro-level, weighted keyboards, you would be blown away by how good the Casio feels. At its price, nothing touches it. But... the feel is more sterile and just not quite as "good" as the acoustic piano feel on the Kronos X keys. If you love the feel of keys like the Kronos X, or the Triton high-end models, you'll find the Casio feel to be a bit different. Still pro quality, nothing like cheap weighted controllers, not spongy or too springy, but just not at the same level as the Korg keys. ALSO... note that the PX-5S lacks aftertouch, so that might be an issue.

If you're not bothered by the extreme weight of the Kronos compared to the amazing light weight of the Casio, the Kronos beats it in every way. The PX-5S is a great keyboard for many reasons, including its non-acoustic-piano sounds, too, but the comparison is like comparing a Honda to a BMW. Both are excellent, but one delivers higher performance with a more commanding feel that places it in a different category than the other.

Here's my review:
http://www.musicplayers.com/reviews/key ... Privia.php

Scott

[phattbuzz]

Here is a link to Piano Man Chuck's videos on the PX-5S. He also has a Kronos 88.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... xOLx8e3ry4

He also compares a bunch of digital keyboards including the PX5S and the Kronos for the purposes of gigging out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYd3EQlfy50

[psionic311]

Thanks for your honest answers. I've done a good bit of research on the PX-5S online, but I'm a bit surprised how the owners of both tend to lean toward the Kronos pianos.

The hour I spent with the Privia at Sam Ash passed quickly because the piano was really reponsive to touch. I was somewhat unsure about its sound because of the cheap headphones, but at least it had a wide dynamic range. I feel like that range is missing on the Kronos pianos.

[SanderXpander]

Perhaps you should try fiddling with SGX2's velocity response settings more. It's incredibly dynamic to me.

[lonelagranger]

I also own the Kronos X 88 and the Privia PX-5S. I agree with pretty much everything that danmusician has said. The pianos on the Casio are very good. I could play either the Kronos or the Casio and enjoy the piano playing experience equally. However, I do feel the Casio has a slight advantage in expression because it uses a tri-sensor mechanism which gives you high definition MIDI. The Roland A88 Controller and their new RD stage pianos use this same technology. It enable you to play much softer than a 2 contact mechanism. The difference is not dramatic but it does give you a larger range of expression to use. Just my opinion. Some people feel this is just gimmicky on the manufacturers part. But if it didn't do something then way would Roland or Casio go to the expense.

When considering the price difference between the two keyboards it is scary how close the Casio can come to the Kronos in terms of the piano. Of course the Kronos is much more than just a piano. The weight factor of the Casio cannot be discounted either. It is a great little keyboard to just pick up, 24 lbs., and move to where you want it without breaking your back. For you young people you can disregard this statement.

[danmusician]

FWIW, when I bought the Kronos back in 2011, I was actually auditioning high end Digital Pianos. I played the Yamaha CP-1, the Roland V-Piano and whatever Kurzweil and Nord offerings were available. At the time, I was playing with tracks from my iPad and just wanted a great piano.

I preferred the German piano in the Kronos over all the others. The Kronos benefits from having unlooped samples. The Yamaha had noticeable looping in the lower registers. I've never been a fan of the Roland piano timbre over the years. It's purely a matter of taste. I just don't care of the flavor of the piano. That's not an indictment of quality, just my personal feeling. I also thought that the key throw on the V-Piano was very shallow.

Having decided on the Kronos, I was amazed that it was cheaper than the others AND was also a workstation. My original one sentence Kronos review was, "Came of the pianos, stayed for the workstation." I love that everything I need is right there on the Set List display. The simplicity of the everything in one machine is awesome.

BUT - the compromise is that I can't fit the 88 in my car and I don't want to carry anything that heavy. The 73 is a compromise I can live with - most of the time. The PX-5S definitely wins for portability. If I didn't have the Kronos, I don't think I would be happy with only the PX-5S. But it is great instrument to have in my arsenal.

[geoelectro]

I also own the Kronos X 88 and the Privia PX-5S. I agree with pretty much everything that danmusician has said. The pianos on the Casio are very good. I could play either the Kronos or the Casio and enjoy the piano playing experience equally. However, I do feel the Casio has a slight advantage in expression because it uses a tri-sensor mechanism which gives you high definition MIDI. The Roland A88 Controller and their new RD stage pianos use this same technology. It enable you to play much softer than a 2 contact mechanism. The difference is not dramatic but it does give you a larger range of expression to use. Just my opinion. Some people feel this is just gimmicky on the manufacturers part. But if it didn't do something then way would Roland or Casio go to the expense.

When considering the price difference between the two keyboards it is scary how close the Casio can come to the Kronos in terms of the piano. Of course the Kronos is much more than just a piano. The weight factor of the Casio cannot be discounted either. It is a great little keyboard to just pick up, 24 lbs., and move to where you want it without breaking your back. For you young people you can disregard this statement.

I am not aware that tri-sensor provides for softer dynamics than the 2-sensor versions. My understanding is it provides faster repeatability of notes. For example, with 2-sensors you must let the key raise all the way back up before you can re strike it. With the 3-sensor you can re strike with the key only coming up around half way. As for high definition MIDI not externally. I'm not sure how the velocity definition is internally but I suspect it's similar to 128 steps as usual.

There has been talk of how a note can be repeated without creating a new note like in a real piano. This can occur internally but there is no provision thru MIDI to take that feature outside. I ask a Yamaha tech about this last January and he said the same thing.

I doubt I play with enough finesse to benefit from the tri-sensor but I always love new tech.

Geo

[psionic311]

It would be nice if NAMM 2016 in January revealed a Privia PX-7S:

new concert grand samples
expression pedal input
color display
an expanded controller section
-- 8 faders plus master fader
-- 8 matching buttons/encoders
new color scheme
still has 256 polyphony
still is a 4 zone master controller
still lightweight
standard IEC power socket, instead of wall wart
MIDI sequencer

This would basically be the new Privia PX-560M minus speakers. We'll see how well gigging goes the rest of the year. May need to just cave and get the PX-5S to go with the Kronos and other 61 controller.

EDIT: you know, now that I think of it, I should seriously consider the 560M. It apparently still keeps the 4 zone controller capability. The main objection with it is the onboard speakers, but I imagine they could be more of a plus in certain circumstances....hmmm

[JPROBERTLA]

I have both and used the PX-5S to control a Kronos 61 because I did not trust the original Kronos weighted keybed. I now have a Kronos2 88 and am selling both other keyboards. The PX-5S piano is good until you A/B it with a Kronos. The Kronos piano in much better (to me) than the PX-5S; but considering the price difference that should not surprise anyone. On the few occasions I gigged using piano only, I used the PX-5S and was perfectly satisfied doing so. It is a very good digital piano/keyboard with an excellent weighted keybed action. It is not a workstation of the Kronos' caliber. It is an unfair if not impractical comparison.

[EvilDragon]

it uses a tri-sensor mechanism which gives you high definition MIDI.

Triple sensors have nothing to do with increased velocity precision. Same can be had on standard double action keybeds. Plus, it's not "HD MIDI", it's "high resolution velocity" only, for things that support it (like Pianoteq).