Korg M3 vs. Kurzweil PC3x... Choices, choices, choices.

[asdasd]

Ok, so I mostly play in bands, and also do some of my own more trance/real synth music on the side, I own a Korg X50 and a fanX with orchestral board... Both pretty decent.

I need to play mainly metal and rock type music, so basically I need the basic string/choir pads, organs/pianos, some bells and orchestra stuff etc.

I know this is a korg forum so opinions are probably going to be biased, but maybe you can help me a bit anyway, I already own the X50 and one plus of it, is that it cuts through in live situation, though its not as good in studio. The sound is a bit dated too, and the FX section is very dated for reverbs and stuff.

I havent had a chance to test either of these boards, due to living in the middle of nowhere...

Anyway some pros and cons:

Korg M3,
-sampler (I probably dont use though)
-Much bigger ROM, like 5x
-Probably cuts through like korg
-Pads are probably better

-I already have similar X50

Kurzweil PC3x
-Organ simulator
-Better engine and FX
-Orchestra is said to be a winner
-VA inside

-Very small ROM/ old samples, weak drums.

- Cons of both boards seem to be a weak Piano, but I cant justify a Yamaha Motif cause it has no good pads or strings.

OK I hope you can help me a bit with this decision.



BTW does the M3 have the Dynorchestra 2 preset from X50?

[gjvti]

M3 also can have virtual analog inside with radias board.
Since I don't care much about orchestral sounds in my opinion only advantage of Kurzweil PC3x could be better implementation of riffs - in M3 you can use RPPR only in seq mode and have to program dedicated riff/pattern for each midi channel/track however on M3 you have karma engine, which overcompensates that small riff/pattern implementation disadvantage

[Synthoid]

Cons of both boards seem to be a weak Piano, but I cant justify a Yamaha Motif cause it has no good pads or strings.

The Kurzweil PC3x has very good piano sounds! Don't know where you heard otherwise..... plus the M3 Xpanded piano is no slouch either--especially after tweaking.

It's well worth it to audition both, plus the Motif XS... even if it involves a drive of an hour or more.

Personally, I own an M3, Motif XS and Kurzweil K2661, and primarily use the M3 (plus a Triton Classic) for live gigging of original synth/electronic and new age music. I use KARMA extensively because of its versatility--no other workstation can compete with KARMA's complex rhythms and textures. (I also feel that Korg has the best pads and motion sounds.)

The Motif XS does offer good string and orchestral sounds btw. As I mentioned above--spend some time playing all three keyboards and then decide what works best for you.

[asdasd]

M3 also can have virtual analog inside with radias board.
Since I don't care much about orchestral sounds in my opinion only advantage of Kurzweil PC3x could be better implementation of riffs - in M3 you can use RPPR only in seq mode and have to program dedicated riff/pattern for each midi channel/track however on M3 you have karma engine, which overcompensates that small riff/pattern implementation disadvantage

The primary thing for me is the sound... I dont really need anything else than the perfect sound =).

[Randelph]

Yes, sounds are everything (more or less!)

Did a fair amount of research on the Kurz PC3, and the general consensus seems to be that the sounds for the most part are not flashy, but very high quality, lots of expressive satisfaction.

Which is what I found with the M3 (never had a chance to play the PC3)- except I find many of the M3's sounds to be very flashy and dynamic- I've never enjoyed the sounds and expressiveness of a synth so much. Still own a Motif XS, continue to be surprised at how much more i like the M3 sounds overall and the playing experience. The XS seems like a stage piano on steroids, but not the synth I always dreamed of owning.

Of course it all depends on your style of music-

[paja077]

Ok, so I mostly play in bands, and also do some of my own more trance/real synth music on the side, I own a Korg X50 and a fanX with orchestral board... Both pretty decent.

I need to play mainly metal and rock type music, so basically I need the basic string/choir pads, organs/pianos, some bells and orchestra stuff etc.

I know this is a korg forum so opinions are probably going to be biased, but maybe you can help me a bit anyway, I already own the X50 and one plus of it, is that it cuts through in live situation, though its not as good in studio. The sound is a bit dated too, and the FX section is very dated for reverbs and stuff.

I havent had a chance to test either of these boards, due to living in the middle of nowhere...

Anyway some pros and cons:

Korg M3,
-sampler (I probably dont use though)
-Much bigger ROM, like 5x
-Probably cuts through like korg
-Pads are probably better

-I already have similar X50

Kurzweil PC3x
-Organ simulator
-Better engine and FX
-Orchestra is said to be a winner
-VA inside

-Very small ROM/ old samples, weak drums.

- Cons of both boards seem to be a weak Piano, but I cant justify a Yamaha Motif cause it has no good pads or strings.

OK I hope you can help me a bit with this decision.



BTW does the M3 have the Dynorchestra 2 preset from X50?

Im sorry, but KURZWEIL PC3X - Sound is best of.
I have KORG M3XPanded 61 kesy and sound and Efect is not well.
My Triton Extreme have better sounds than KORG M3XP.

[keego]

Kurzweil are about to release the PC3K which adds non volotile sample memory to the PC3. Also the first of the ROM expansion boards is about to be released in the summer so this will increase the ROM to 128mb. There is also a 128mb expansion slot so there is room for 256mb of ROM (PC3K only has the 64mb slot).The PC3K also has backwards compatability with the K series synths.

I myself went for the PC3 rather than the M3 as I like to program and the complexity of programs that can be achieved on VAST is second to none. 32 possible layers that can be cascaded through each other in Program mode alone. A possible 16 Programs inside a Setup (Kurz's combi mode) you could have a possible 512 layers thats before you can put it through one of the most powerful effects engine's out there.

Before you decide decide what you actually need it for. There are probably more 3rd party sounds for the M3 at the moment but in IMHO I would wait for the PC3K.

Ps

I am now in the market for an M3M to complement my PC3.

[asdasd]

Kurzweil are about to release the PC3K which adds non volotile sample memory to the PC3. Also the first of the ROM expansion boards is about to be released in the summer so this will increase the ROM to 128mb. There is also a 128mb expansion slot so there is room for 256mb of ROM (PC3K only has the 64mb slot).The PC3K also has backwards compatability with the K series synths.

I myself went for the PC3 rather than the M3 as I like to program and the complexity of programs that can be achieved on VAST is second to none. 32 possible layers that can be cascaded through each other in Program mode alone. A possible 16 Programs inside a Setup (Kurz's combi mode) you could have a possible 512 layers thats before you can put it through one of the most powerful effects engine's out there.

Before you decide decide what you actually need it for. There are probably more 3rd party sounds for the M3 at the moment but in IMHO I would wait for the PC3K.

Ps

I am now in the market for an M3M to complement my PC3.

Hmm... seeing as you own the PC3, do you think it can do this kind of pad sounds well?

Playing all the way through the song (right from the start). Synth is the M3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzU65aPZDnc

[keego]

I would say it would be possible to emulate this sound.
Check over on Mastering Vast forum for ideas on how to build this sound.

http://www.cunka.com/forum/index.php

[EvilDragon]

PC3x definitely. Much better pianos and overall VA engine than M3+Radias.

I'd even say PC3K, since it has sample memory, which doesn't get deleted after you turn off the keyboard, and it's MUCH FASTER to load than M3.

Also, the thing with Kurzweils is not in the QUANTITY of the ROM, it's in the QUALITY of the samples.

I'd say that 64 MB of PC3 ROM sounds much better than 256 MB of M3 ROM. Because Kurzweil really knows their s**t. And especially sound programming, that's where they excel at! PC3 has the best orchestral sounds of any currently available workstations.

[EvilDragon]

I am now in the market for an M3M to complement my PC3.

This is also good idea. Best of both worlds.

[LiqMat]

I see that u own a K2661. How is the sequencer on that unit? Does it have any multi-track pattern based abilities and not strictly linear like the M3? I also have a ton of old ASR-10 samples I would like to grab and I noticed the K2600 series read native ASR-10 samples.
Just curious.

I currently just use off board sequencers with the M3 because absolutely despise the M3 sequencer work flow and linear approach.

I am thinking about picking up a new old stock K2600 and will be investigating.

Thanks for any info.

I would say it would be possible to emulate this sound.
Check over on Mastering Vast forum for ideas on how to build this sound.

http://www.cunka.com/forum/index.php

[Synthoid]

I myself went for the PC3 rather than the M3 as I like to program and the complexity of programs that can be achieved on VAST is second to none.

If you like to program sounds and menu dive--buy the PC3. If you want to play music, buy the M3. For inspiration, I reach for the M3 first, Triton second, Motif XS third... and my Kurzweil gathers dust.

I was talked into buying a Kurzweil K2661 a few years back... I owned a Korg Triton at the time and kept hearing about how superior the Kurzweil was, its amazing VAST technology, and the "thousands of Kurzweil sounds available to download online." Other than the pianos, orchestral sounds (which I rarely use anyway) and some interesting pads, the K2661 didn't really impress me. It also has no arpeggiator to speak of--a real disappointment. As far as programming goes, I agree that VAST is deep and offers endless options--but the menu diving and the ridiculously small display screen (which the PC3 still has) are no fun.

By the way, there were hardly thousands of sounds to download for the K2661. I found a few hundred.... only after asking for links from other owners. Several sites had been closed down and most of the sounds I did find were just so-so.

The PC3 offers more features, so I agree it's quite a step up from the older K series. For your own peace of mind--play it first--along with any other keyboard you're considering.

[Synastikki]

Both the M3 and PC3 have computer editors so if you do stuff mainly in studio I wouldn't consider the small screen an issue... If you gig a lot but make your sounds home, no problem there either... the small screen is an issue if you gig a lot and have to tweak sounds on the road without a computer. Of course the touchscreen beats everything else, but I think that deciding by the screen is not that relevant when there is a computer editor at hand.

[keego]

There is no comparison between K series and PC3. PC3 is superior in every way. Polyphony, Effects and sound engine.