anybody chain multiple MS2000 units here?

shortwave360 · Post by **shortwave360** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:18 am

I have a MS2000B that I have wanted to sync with another rack unit. I can see how much fun it could be to copy complex patches to the second machine to edit sequences and envelopes, etc. on that machine. Just curious if anybody is doing it and how it turned out for them.

fac · Post by **fac** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:36 pm

I did it for a short time when I had two MS2000R's, but I found the second one redundant and eventually sold it. For some reason, if I use more than a couple MS2000R tracks in a song, it starts to sound too plasticky.

shortwave360 · Post by **shortwave360** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:11 pm

thanks... i have heard many complaints about how "rigid" the sound is from the MS synths, i often process the sounds through a analog piece of hardware quite often to avoid this. my eyes have turned to a true analog synth, but haven't really found one that has the interface like the MS. I really dig the layout of it and have become very accustomed to working with it.

fac · Post by **fac** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:19 pm

Well, I'm also an analog fan and I'm saving my pennies for a Prophet 08. It looks like it has a very clean interface, and it also has step sequencers, which is one of my favorite features in the MS2000R.

Actually, I'm currently selling all my other VA's (Virus A and Nova) precisely because they lack step sequencers, and their interfaces are not as immediate or intuitive as the MS2000.

I would also like to eventually buy an MS2000 keyboard and sell my rack. I bought a lot of rack gear for space reasons, but now I can a studio which is a little bigger and can afford having various keyboards.

plosive · Post by **plosive** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:39 am

you can link the 2 for 8 voice polyphony.. theres a setting specifically for doing this

shortwave360 · Post by **shortwave360** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:18 am

do i find it in global settings? what is it called? won't midi out just do the same thing?

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:03 pm

I always thought about this. but have a radias for this.

Dont' know about poly chain, the MK never had a setting for it, don't know about the MS2k. I would have liked to use both. e.g. a microkorg controlling a ms2k module.

I imagine the best advantage is spreading the two timbres across each so you get full 4 note poly (not split down to 2 or 1 notes), because each machine is processing one timbre.

or using both timbres on both for a massive lead sound..

I.e you can integrate them by programming the two as one unit... evwery patch change from unit 1 will switch to the same patch on unit 2, so you can program the both units to have two different sounds like when using tim timbres.
If you're like me and like to play big chords, or chords and bass style, this is exceptionally useful

plosive · Post by **plosive** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:18 am

do i find it in global settings? what is it called? won't midi out just do the same thing?

Dont' know about poly chain, the MK never had a setting for it, don't know about the MS2k.

MK doesnt have several things that the MS2k has (it could have this feature tho, i haven't checked)

MS2000 Owner's Manual, Global Parameters (Page4:E NoteRcv), pg. 55

http://www.korg.com/downloads/pdf/MS2000_R_OM.pdf

Example: If you have 2 units linked in this way (u can link as many as you want) that would give you 8 voices of polyphony & 4 timbres 8 splits with 2/2/2/2 voicing, or 3/1/3/1 voicing etc.. if you've ever set up a split or changed the # of voices assigned to timbres you'll already be familiar with this. you could also get some crazy awesome unison going with 2 units..., not to mention you now have 2 seperate effect units for each, which could lead to some great effect variations on the same patch.. and so on.

Manual has diagrams and pictures worth looking at (and tempo sync/filter is also something you'll want to look @ on the same page so u can sync lfos/arp/mod step seq/etc. if you want to, but i'll paste the text for linking two together below:

Korg MS-2000 Manual wrote:E: NoteRcv..................................................[ALL...ODD]

When note data is received, specify the note numbers (even
numbered notes, odd numbered notes, all notes) that will be
sounded by the MS2000/MS2000R.

ALL

All note numbers will be received. Normally you will
leave this set at ALL. If you have connected an MS2000 or
an addition MS2000R to an MS2000R to increase the
polyphony, set one unit to EVN and the other to ODD so
that either one or the other will sound.

EVN or ODD are valid only if the program has an
“Assign” setting (LCD Edit mode Page 03A: VOICE) of
Poly.

There is no effect on the MIDI data that is received.

EVN
Even-numbered notes (C, D, E, F#, G#, A#) will be sounded.

ODD
Odd-numbered notes (C#, D#, F, G, A, B) will be sounded.

some more tips:

If you want both units to have identical patches and be controlled from 1 unit, then do not filter out the CC / control changes messages (pg 55 again). To sync the patch banks perform a MIDI Bulk Dump with #2 set to recieve.

or

if you want the two to be completely independant control-wise (which could lead to some very interesting patches), then filter out the CC and Sync messages.

or (most logically)

do both, experiment

man..this has got me rethinking getting a 2nd one again..

plosive · Post by **plosive** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:27 pm

plosive wrote: MK doesnt have several things that the MS2k has (it could have this feature tho, i haven't checked)

read through the manual & the MK doesn't have this feature, but using the ms2000's setting you could still do this setup with a ms2k->MK connection (as described in the ms2000's manual.. and the ms2000 would have to be the master kb or if the rack, it would have to be the first one connected to the midi kb) some patches won't be entirely happy on the mk, but it should do the majority of the job fine. cheap way to add another 4 voices (you can get a mk used for like 250 usd).

gridsleep · Post by **gridsleep** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:12 pm

What about the audio channels, though? I can see how the master MS2000 controls the slave. Is the audio from the slave fed to the master and added to the master's waveform in an unedited way? Although that looks to be not possible, since the external audio is treated as the source rather then one of the master's built in sources. Or is the audio from the slave then fed to the sequencer or control panel? How is the audio from two separate MS2000s resolved into appearing to be 8 voice output from one MS2000? Is this a case of "We'll fix it in post"? Would I have to mix the audio manually before feeding it to the sequencer? It wouldn't be difficult since all my audio is going through MOTU 24I/O buses and can be mixed and matched and routed with the click of a mouse. Same with my MIDI; MOTU MIDI Express all the way. Everything is connected to everything in real time under computer control.

I have an MS2000B and am close to acquiring an MS2000BR. I really love this machine. Four voices is sufficient, but if it can have eight, that's just pudding in the pie. Wow. I don't like to compare synthesizers when particular models each have something unique to bring to the table. In this case, I'll approximate and say the nearest I could get to dual MS2000 8 voice is either a Prophet 08 ($2000+) or a PolyEvolver plus a PolyEvolver Rack (which are disappearing quickly) ($4000+). I have a Nova and a Virus C and a DarkStar XP2, but none of them are expandable voice wise, although they have enough voices already for their own sound. The don't have the sequencing power, as mentioned earlier, although the DarkStar comes close. For sound like the MS2000B with more voices I can only think of going the Dave Smith route for a ton more money, which is not feasible at this time. I would not get rid of the MS2000B to get a Poly or Prophet. I'd just wait until I can have both.

Or all of them.

Mystic38 · Post by **Mystic38** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:36 pm

gridsleep wrote:What about the audio channels, though?

you are only chaining digital control information.. not audio. they are in fact, two separate sound generators each with its own stereo output.... the cleanest way IMO (since you are viewing it as one synth) would be to sum them with a mixer or if you take both stereo sets to the daw to merge to one audio stereo track set.

gridsleep · Post by **gridsleep** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:38 pm

Thanks. That's what I figured. I guess since they didn't mention it in the chaining explanation, they must have figured it was obvious. It is still doable and should sound very nice. I get this weird image in my head of two tanks chained together with one remote controlled by the driver and gunner in the other one. But, that's just me. I think the mic boom sticking out of the MS2000B kind of adds to the allusion.

Clay Pedrazzoni · Post by **Clay Pedrazzoni** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:42 am

I've hooked my MS2000R to the MS2000.

Set receive as Even/Odd and all works properly if i play from the MS2K's keyboard as master.

Problems starts when I try to control both by an external keybord.

The only working rig is :
Master Key OUT -> IN MS2K -> MS2K thru -> IN MSKR.

If I connect the MS2K "Thru out" to the MS2KR "input", i can play both, but i can't edit both at same time.

I'd like to control the keys from master keyboard and the parameters of the MSKR from the panel of MS2K.

I've tried also to merge the OUT and the THRU of the MS2K into MS2KR, no way.
I've tried to merge the both Outputs from MS2K and Master keyboard, nope.

Other thing, there' a way to use a "spillover" assignment instead of "even / odd"?
I mean, the master palys the first 4 notes, then assign the exceeding ones to the slave.
This seem to me more clever than the Odd/Even assignments, because depending which chord are you playing, sometimes you haven't 8 voices.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:20 pm

I've always thought that your 'spillover' method would work better. That's how I would design it, from an engineering perspective.

I'd even give a synth with limited polyphony an extra 'polychain out' port or a mode for it, which sends all unplayed notes.
However, that's not the way it's done. I suppose it would require more prcessing whereas this method is more effecient technically but yields less results in actual performance.

as for your problem, you really do just need a MIDI Merge box to join Out and Thru. That's the only way to do it. you can't just literally join MIDI connections with a splitter cable, there will be data collisions at least and other issues.

Clay Pedrazzoni · Post by **Clay Pedrazzoni** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:25 pm

X-Trade wrote: as for your problem, you really do just need a MIDI Merge box to join Out and Thru. That's the only way to do it.

I do Out and Thru merge with my Roland A-880, Isn't enough?
Tell me more about this, please, seems very interesting.