RT Knob only works for 1 of 2 PROG EXi modules in COMBI?

[decreebass]

Got a problem that’s driving me crazy.

I have a PROG with two EXi modules. (PolySixEX & AL-1, if it matters).

While I’m in the PROG, I can use RT Knob 1 to control the cutoff frequency of both EXis. It sounds great, as the AL-1 generates noise to compliment the PolySix, and it goes from pure wooly bass to aggressive fat, noisy synth.

But, as soon as I add that PROG to a COMBI and try to use that same knob, it now only controls the cutoff of the AL-1 and doesn’t affect the PolySix at all.

How can I make this knob behave the way it behaves in the PROG, controlling both EXis? Is this a setting I’m missing in the PROG or the COMBI? Which setting? Thanks in advance!

[HardSync]

Well that's odd, because the Real Time knobs 1 - 4 are hardwired to EXis and knob 1 should respond accordingly to modify the cutoff for both, as you already well know. So... assuming you are in RT knobs mode and not Tone Adj, then the thing I would check first is the Force Osc Mode setting on the P2 Timbre Parameters / Osc tab and ensure that is set to BTH. The theory being that the you might not be able to hear the noise on the AL-1 program when the filter cutoff is low, so if the Force OSC mode is set to OSC1 or OSC2, then only one of those EXis is actually playing.

It's a guess though. If you are accidentally in Tone Adj mode, then knob 1 will control the cutoff for the PolySix but not the cutoff for AL-1, which might explain the issue.

If that isn't the issue, then if you add that program to a blank, INIT combi, what happens then? Do the RT knobs work as expected? Or if you add that program to a different unused timbre number slot in your original existing combi, what happens? When doing this, keep in mind that if you are modifying an existing combi there could be other settings that undesirably alter the way a program will sound, for example the MIDI Filter tabs where you can disconnect RT knobs, etc. But in that case, it would affect the entire program, not just one of the EXis used in a program.

[decreebass]

@hardsync - thank you! That's the best reply I've gotten out of the half dozen places I've posted this question! Or, at least, it's given me a few new avenues of troubleshooting that I can work with.

I'll mess with it tonight and see what I come up with. For reference, it didn't matter if I was in RT mode, TONE ADJUST MODE, or neither. The PolySixEX was completely ignored by that knob once the PROG is added to a COMBI.

It's possible I may have somehow de-linked the control. I'm going to rebuild that PROG entirely (wasn't really anything too special) and see if I get the same result when adding it to a COMBI again. I have the weekend free, so I'm gonna really dive into this machine.

[HardSync]

You're welcome. I hope you get it sorted out. Sorry for getting it backwards as to which EXi wasn't working. Don't know why I misread it as the AL-1 not working with RT 1 when it was the PolySix, or maybe I just got confused when I was comparing the Tone Adj controls. Either way, the idea to troubleshoot it is the same. Let us know how you get on.

[decreebass]

You're welcome. I hope you get it sorted out. Sorry for getting it backwards as to which EXi wasn't working. Don't know why I misread it as the AL-1 not working with RT 1 when it was the PolySix, or maybe I just got confused when I was comparing the Tone Adj controls. Either way, the idea to troubleshoot it is the same. Let us know how you get on.

I think I discovered the problem. I was mistaken. Even on the PROG itself, the PolySixEX doesn't quite get fully affected by the cutoff. I ended up going with an AL-1 PROG. Basically, I need a sound that has thick, rich synth when cutoff is fully open, but with the ability to get it dark and wooly/bassy (almost like you're hearing a party next door) and be able to slowly increase the cutoff until it's "in your face".

So I guess the cutoff WAS working on the PolySixEX, but it just wasn't doing what I wanted it to do. I could have sworn it was working at some point, but I was probably mistaken from the get-go.

[HardSync]

Fair enough if you can get it done with another AL-1. As for why you recall it sounding differently, well maybe another RT knob was accidentally moved which altered the character of the sound and you weren't aware? That's happened to all of us at some point. I like to blame the cat when that happens, and sometimes it really is the cat's fault.

Based on what you said, though, it sounds like something is scaling the cutoff on the PolySix. Maybe an unexpected AMS routing, or perhaps it's just the VCF's EG intensity isn't high enough, or even something like the filter key tracking. I want to believe it is something simple, and fortunately the PolySix doesn't have a ton of parameters to worry about. Perhaps this is a mystery to solve some other day when you have time. :)

[decreebass]

Fair enough if you can get it done with another AL-1. As for why you recall it sounding differently, well maybe another RT knob was accidentally moved which altered the character of the sound and you weren't aware? That's happened to all of us at some point. I like to blame the cat when that happens, and sometimes it really is the cat's fault.

Based on what you said, though, it sounds like something is scaling the cutoff on the PolySix. Maybe an unexpected AMS routing, or perhaps it's just the VCF's EG intensity isn't high enough, or even something like the filter key tracking. I want to believe it is something simple, and fortunately the PolySix doesn't have a ton of parameters to worry about. Perhaps this is a mystery to solve some other day when you have time.

Funny you should mention that. For the last couple years, I haven't used my Kronos 61 as much, becasue something just felt "off" about it, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what. I decided to compare it to my 88 and, sure enough, something was off. My cat is constantly walking all over my equipment in the studio and she must have changed something huge and then later I must have saved it. All it took was reloading one of the factory PCGs and I was good to go again

[HardSync]

See, you presume it was your cat just walking all over it, but it could have been your cat was making deliberate changes.

Cats love synths. They may not have thumbs, but they're great at moving knobs and sliders deliberately, not to mention pressing down on buttons and keys, and sometimes running off with knob caps they've worked loose and freed from captivity. I've walked into my keyboard room to find cats sleeping on keybeds or on the top panels -- just zonked out, completely dead to the world, happy as can be. Sometimes they have left me a soft fuzzy toy ball on the keybed -- they were just taunting me, I know.

Several times, I've made the mistake of leaving my gear on and volume up when going to bed only to be awoken by the clangorous and booming joy of a cat dancing on the keys at 4 a.m. (One of their favorite pieces of gear to do that on is a BeatStep Pro -- cats love those pads! Very comfortable on the paws.). That is of course my fault and I've learned my lesson. I can't even open up a box of new synth gear without a cat first sitting on the unopened box, in anticipation. Fortunately, the empty box provides them about 5 minutes of entertainment.

Oh, the cat hair found inside the keyboard when you open it up to repair something? Could make a whole cat of that. So now I make it a point to vac my keybed every so often. Maybe it helps. One time I found the desiccated tail of a small lizard. I don't even want to know how that got in there.

I do get a chuckle when I see ads for used gear that come from both a smoke-free and pet-free studio. Because cats. Dogs can't be bothered, really.