Recommendations for best B3 and horn section libraries?

ChrisDuncan · Post by **ChrisDuncan** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:52 pm

I had mentioned in the KApro pricing thread that I happened to be considering both a B3 purchase as well as something for the standard rock / blues horn section with trumpets, trombones and saxes.

I realized since I was looking for opinions on the best libraries for these applications it made sense to get the conversation out of the KApro specific thread.

At the sale price of $50 for the B3 and $100 for the horn section, the KApro offerings are attractive in terms of budget, but I don't want to make a knee jerk purchase based on price alone, since we live with these libs for a long time.

With that in mind, what are the favorites around here for these two types of libs, including the general price they go for, and how do the KApro offerings compare?

KK · Post by KK » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:09 pm

Different people, different tastes - I recommend you install the demos on your Kronos and see for yourself. To listen to MP3/wave example files don't tell much. When you try libraries in demo version, you can listen to the sounds as they are, without them being masked in whatever arrangement/piece and also another important aspect is you can see how they were programmed, which buttons do what to change certain parameters, etc. And it's easy to uninstall demos if you don't like them, otherwise if you buy you just authorize the demo with the code.

Personally, for Hammond stuff, I am satisfied with the CX-3 engine. It's easy to create good custom CX-3 programs from scratch or editing the factory ones into other ones. I also like some of the HD-1 organ samples for certain contexts.

ChrisDuncan · Post by **ChrisDuncan** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:21 pm

KK wrote:Different people, different tastes - I recommend you install the demos on your Kronos and see for yourself.

Probably because I've been a software developer for so many years, I always twitch at the thought of installing demo versions. Uninstalls gone wrong have been the source of many a headache over the years.

KK wrote: Personally, for Hammond stuff, I am satisfied with the CX-3 engine. It's easy to create good custom CX-3 programs from scratch or editing the factory ones into other ones. I also like some of the HD-1 organ samples for certain contexts.

That was another thing I was wondering about. Greg made a comment in another thread that he wasn't sure there was a need for third party libs in some cases as he felt you could get just as good a sound from the stock engines. It sounds like you're of the same mind in terms of the Hammond stuff.

I did play around a bit with the drawbars on one of the stock patches to good effect and was wondering about that very thing. What would a third party lib do for a B3 that the CX-3 engine doesn't? Are they actually using the same engine, and if so, is what I'm buying someone's time and effort to program the patches (which can certainly be worthwhile) rather than getting a different kind of engine under the hood?

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:41 pm

ChrisDuncan wrote:
KK wrote:Different people, different tastes - I recommend you install the demos on your Kronos and see for yourself.
Probably because I've been a software developer for so many years, I always twitch at the thought of installing demo versions. Uninstalls gone wrong have been the source of many a headache over the years.

KK wrote: Personally, for Hammond stuff, I am satisfied with the CX-3 engine. It's easy to create good custom CX-3 programs from scratch or editing the factory ones into other ones. I also like some of the HD-1 organ samples for certain contexts.
That was another thing I was wondering about. Greg made a comment in another thread that he wasn't sure there was a need for third party libs in some cases as he felt you could get just as good a sound from the stock engines. It sounds like you're of the same mind in terms of the Hammond stuff.

I did play around a bit with the drawbars on one of the stock patches to good effect and was wondering about that very thing. What would a third party lib do for a B3 that the CX-3 engine doesn't? Are they actually using the same engine, and if so, is what I'm buying someone's time and effort to program the patches (which can certainly be worthwhile) rather than getting a different kind of engine under the hood?

・EXs16 Funk and Soul Brass
EXs16 delivers crisp and powerful solo and ensemble brass sounds ideal for funk, soul, and pop.

yeah, that was my experience. I thought the EXs16 was included on the K2. Or maybe Korg made it free and you had to request it.

The EXs 16 was included with Korgs " New Sound Pack ". This was 2-3 years ago. It was part of a collection.

Either way, this 'collection ' got it done for my song purposes for horns and brass.

Now if you are doing orchestra ensembles, and want bigger more varied horn/brass sections, yeah, a 3rd party is a choice.

I say this, often . Its better to define your requirements. Then analyze what you have and go from there. This is cost cautious approach.

In addition, once you sink greater 3rd party investment in your K, the Korg sponsored 3rd party Exs are not automatically ' moveable ' to another K.

This fact has stepped me from buying bunches of expensive 3rd party libs.
Korg might make an exception on transferring 3rd parties. There 'policy' has varied over time.

To each his own, of course. I look long term when I have Benjamins to spend.

KK · Post by KK » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:56 pm

ChrisDuncan wrote:Probably because I've been a software developer for so many years, I always twitch at the thought of installing demo versions. Uninstalls gone wrong have been the source of many a headache over the years.

I understand what you mean and it's true for software. The difference here though is that a Kronos sound library has no effect on the unit's OS. The only thing which can go wrong is that you inadvertently replace an existing bank with the new library one. So always perform a save all in disk mode before installing a demo. This way, any mistake can be erased by reinstalling the PCG saved before installation. No OS or system consequence, as opposed to installing something in Windows on a PC, for example. Also, you can always choose where you install the new library bank. The procedure is often given in a PDF with the library/demo.

I've never installed the KaPro demo you mention but it's mentioned it includes samples, so obviously some of its programs/combis work in HD-1. The CX-3 is instead an EXi, so no samples. Possibly the KaPro combines both (HD-1 samples and the CX-3 engine) in certain combis, etc. In other words, HD-1 sampled B3s don't offer drawbar controls as opposed to the CX-3, etc. Both types can sound very good, but offer different things/controls. By testing the demos, you will find out if you like how they are programmed.

Update : Just checked their PDF for kicks and found that it's cleverly done with samples of each individual drawbar, etc. Another aspect to think of also is that HD-1 mode is limited to 140 voices instead of CX-3 at 200.

yeskeys · Post by **yeskeys** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:11 pm

Personally I found that the Organimation library had the best organ programming and sound. They chew up a lot of IFX slots however. I was able to trim one down to just using 3 IFX and it sounds pretty damn good, if you like a more organic distortion and not the stock distortion effects. Of course these are the same effects, just programmed in the right order and with the right parameters/values.

Stoffel · Post by **Stoffel** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:33 pm

Imo Organimation is the best library for organ patches if you don't want to integrate the Neo Instuments Ventilator. Have used it for a long time. Shurely the Vent is lightyears away from the internal possibilities but it is not inexpensive and you have to patch it external. But the overdrive...!

yeskeys · Post by **yeskeys** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:40 pm

Please note that the Organimation library uses the CX3 engine. I just listened to the audio demos for the KAPro Legend EXs's, which are sample based. The audio demos sound great, especially the "Hush" demo.

I would love to get my hands on the Ventilator and try it out. But I think I've spent too much money lately and since I'm out of the band scene now I can't justify it.

I'm going to install the demo for KAPro's Legend and check it out. The sale pricing is good!

Stoffel · Post by **Stoffel** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:14 pm

Go to your dealer and try out the Ventilator. You dont't know what you are missing!

ChrisDuncan · Post by **ChrisDuncan** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:42 pm

Thanks, guys.

Listening to the Organimation demos now, they sound great, as do the samples from the KApro Legend. Tough call. My gut feeling is that since Organimation uses the CX-3 engine and the KApro does something clever with samples, the latter might be an interesting addition since I already have the CX-3 engine.

Regarding the horns, I realized I was listening to the EXs16, which is Korg, rather than the EXs116, which is the Kapro. They both sound pretty good. The Korg sounds a bit warmer and the KApro a bit more shrill, that's about all I've noticed thus far.

I did bump into this reviewer, however, who wasn't fond of the saxaphones.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... highlight=

Honestly, between the two Hammond libs and the two horn libs I get the feeling they'd all do an excellent job.

My only concern is the saxes. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:43 am

ChrisDuncan wrote:Thanks, guys.

Regarding the horns, I realized I was listening to the EXs16, which is Korg, rather than the EXs116, which is the Kapro. They both sound pretty good. The Korg sounds a bit warmer and the KApro a bit more shrill, that's about all I've noticed thus far.

My only concern is the saxes. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

some crossover , or maybe its me. EXs18 is the Korg brass sample that I use.

For sax, the Sounds of the Planet Sax is outstanding. Catch a sale. Its worth it.
I bet this is surprising, I have an original that features the SOP Sax Exs.

FB Music · Post by **FB Music** » Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:53 am

Stoffel wrote:Imo Organimation is the best library for organ patches if you don't want to integrate the Neo Instuments Ventilator. Have used it for a long time. Shurely the Vent is lightyears away from the internal possibilities but it is not inexpensive and you have to patch it external. But the overdrive...!

Mini Vent 2! Same sound as it’s big brother but a lot cheaper. You won’t get all the hands on control though.

Purgatory · Post by **Purgatory** » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:05 am

Saxophone is an easy one this one :-

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... p?t=115234

Brass :- EXS-116 Power Brass

http://shop.korg.com/Kronos/EXS-116

Organs can't really help you there, happy with whats on the Kronos as default not really an instrument I play or like a lot, but do have my kicks for it for certain songs I like that use it.

Also remember the demo versions are the full versions just you don't have the authorization code to turn off the demo mode that makes the sounds cut in and out all the time.

So remember when you want to purchase any of them do not uninstall them just pay for them and use the code to activate them.

Also demo versions are easy to remove and don't mess with anything else, just install them to banks you don't use as a test. ALSO remember to backup everything before installing any library so easy to return to your previous state.

AntonySharmman · Post by **AntonySharmman** » Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:07 pm

ChrisDuncan also have a look there http://wavesart.eu/KronosEXs

Stoffel · Post by **Stoffel** » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:56 pm

FB Music wrote:
Stoffel wrote:Imo Organimation is the best library for organ patches if you don't want to integrate the Neo Instuments Ventilator. Have used it for a long time. Shurely the Vent is lightyears away from the internal possibilities but it is not inexpensive and you have to patch it external. But the overdrive...!
Mini Vent 2! Same sound as it’s big brother but a lot cheaper. You won’t get all the hands on control though.

The Ventilator 2 is placed on the right side of my kronos 2 88 and is automatically inserted by recalling special programmed cx3 combis. Kronos out 3 -> Ventilator -> kronos IN 2. Overdrive is programmed and volume normalized to joystick x. The speed is switched momantary by a simple sustain switch. The Mini Vent 2 is not able to do such a switch mode nor has it a connector for a footswitch. Also Ventilator 2 has more and finer graded control parameters, stereo in and has 5 knobs. I love knobs!

But if you can abandon these options you are very right.