Kronos 88 and RH3 keyboard faulty

runningman67 · Post by **runningman67** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:40 am

Six weeks into my Kronos.

Previous to my Kronos I owned a Korg SP250. Never had any problems in over 5 years of playing. It shares the RH3 keybed. Although I do think the action is slightly bouncier on the Kronos.

I have experienced one morning of virtually unplayability on the piano patches only and I mean the 'headline piano's, German Grand, Japanese Grand etc.......

I couldn't replicate the problem with any other patch including Elec piano.

This morning my Kronos is playing perfectly. It doesn't matter which part of the key i touch, or how delicate I play. It is working perfectly. The pedal, expression, perfect.

On that 'bad' day, I felt that and I mean felt, intuition, that there was some kind of glitch with the responce of the cut off notes, to my damper/sustain pedal. As if there was a conflict.

I know others have ruled this out but, thats what I felt as I tried to get the Kronos to respond 'normally'.

I think it is software. There is so much bundled into the Kronos that there are glitches, conflicts, hidden and not so hidden on the board. Hence the delay in releasing OS 1.5.

It may react differently as we play differently, tweak differently, different temperatures.

Originally we all thought that OS 1.5 was a simple upgrade to enhance the Kronos and keep the love affair going until the next one. OS 1.5 is a massive undertaking. I would be suprised if we get it this year. Korg will not release it until it is as perfect as possible.

I know this doesn't address the clunking issue, my keybed is perfect. Height and spacing is perfect. I have just shared my experience of my Kronos 73 serial number 893..........

xtatty · Post by **xtatty** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:31 pm

Today, i connected my StudioLogic SL-880 Pro Midi Controller, witch has hammer action keys, with the Kronos.
I played using it's keys and the Kronos sound generator.

Everything worked like a charm. No cut off notes and no choppy notes (like in the video below) when i played staccato.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tRQIIflon8

So now i'm 99.9% certain that it is a hardware problem with the RH3.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:50 pm

xtatty wrote:Today, i connected my StudioLogic SL-880 Pro Midi Controller, witch has hammer action keys, with the Kronos.
I played using it's keys and the Kronos sound generator.

Everything worked like a charm. No cut off notes and no choppy notes (like in the video below) when i played staccato.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tRQIIflon8

So now i'm 99.9% certain that it is a hardware problem with the RH3.

Reading/handling/calculating/converting the sensor values of the physical keys is also embedded in software, so it still could be a software problem.

runningman67 · Post by **runningman67** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:55 pm

michelkeijzers wrote:
xtatty wrote:Today, i connected my StudioLogic SL-880 Pro Midi Controller, witch has hammer action keys, with the Kronos.
I played using it's keys and the Kronos sound generator.

Everything worked like a charm. No cut off notes and no choppy notes (like in the video below) when i played staccato.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tRQIIflon8

So now i'm 99.9% certain that it is a hardware problem with the RH3.
Reading/handling/calculating/converting the sensor values of the physical keys is also embedded in software, so it still could be a software problem.

If it was hardware, why so intermittent ? Hardware is either working or broken?

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:05 pm

runningman67 wrote:Originally we all thought that OS 1.5 was a simple upgrade to enhance the Kronos and keep the love affair going until the next one. OS 1.5 is a massive undertaking. I would be suprised if we get it this year. Korg will not release it until it is as perfect as possible.

I think I read on here that new K's are shipping with 1.5.

nitecrawler · Post by **nitecrawler** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:05 pm

It sounds like hardware to me as well.

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:07 pm

runningman67 wrote:If it was hardware, why so intermittent ? Hardware is either working or broken?

Several reasons:

1. Fault Tolerances
2. Poor adjustment/alignment in the manufacturing process
3. Playing technique

We've seen videos of the RH3 PHYSICALLY double striking. The DAW reflects this as well.

-Mc

EXer · Post by **EXer** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:57 pm

McHale wrote:Do you expect it to play perfectly if you play at the very very top of the key, touching the case above it? I certainly wouldn't.

Yes, the RH3 keybed is faulty.

When played with an incorrect technique it does nothing more than cutting notes.

That's a shame!

I say that when played with an incorrect technique a keyboard should output a high voltage on the keys to punish the bad player!

:3devil:

PianoManChuck · Post by **PianoManChuck** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:04 pm

Technique is an academic issue and irrelevant to this problem. What's next, improper fingering?

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:46 pm

PianoManChuck wrote:Technique is an academic issue and irrelevant to this problem. What's next, improper fingering?

True, maybe with some playing techniques the current problem is easier to reproduce. Besides improper fingering people could come up with:
- finger temperature
- sticky fingers (I will not detail about the cause)
- accidentally dropping chewing gum under the keys
- width of fingers
- number of red blood cells in the top of the finger while playing keys

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:49 pm

EXer wrote:When played with an incorrect technique it does nothing more than cutting notes.

That's a shame!

I say that when played with an incorrect technique a keyboard should output a high voltage on the keys to punish the bad player!

If you are pushing on the WRONG side of of the key from where the momentary switch is located, it is NOT going to give you the solid contact like pressing directly above the switch.

But to show exactly what's causing the problem, watch this video:

http://youtu.be/nTSb8C8E4Tw?t=1m1s

Almost right at the 1:02 mark you see him press down on the key and the key bounces when it makes contact. No question, this is a hardware problem with the RH3, not just the KRONOS.

p.s. The weights are not colored on a real RH3 keybed. They are just colored on the display unit to show the different weights.

p.s.s If someone has one of those RH3 display demos, I'll buy it.

runningman67 · Post by **runningman67** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:06 pm

Do SP250 owners have a problem with the RH3?
I never did, never ever! It was a joy.

Sina172 · Post by **Sina172** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:16 pm

runningman67 wrote:Do SP250 owners have a problem with the RH3?
I never did, never ever! It was a joy.

My KRONOS 88 is nothing BUT a joy and it has NO issues whatsoever....Two of my friends who have the KRONOS have no issues, either...

If the issue makes up for less than 2% of all KRONOS 73/88 users, then you guys must be in the minority......and I really feel for you guys....

Nonetheless, I have no doubts that Korg will fix the issue, whether its hardware OR software....

Sina

jick · Post by **jick** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:11 pm

PianoManChuck wrote:Technique is an academic issue and irrelevant to this problem. What's next, improper fingering?

+1, Playing technique has nothing to do with this. I don't get this kind of issues on my Motif XS8 or any other weighted synth whatsoever.

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:49 pm

jick wrote:Playing technique has nothing to do with this. I don't get this kind of issues on my Motif XS8 or any other weighted synth whatsoever.

It very well could. Finger pressure NOT above the momentary switch will not have the same results as having finger pressure directly over the momentary switch. Placing your fingers at the wrong side of the keys will not yield the same type of pressure nor at the same angle. Take a look at the above videos where the fulcrum is located. Where you apply pressure most certainly can have a direct effect on the issue. Other keybeds are NOT RH3 and are designed differently. We're dealing with very small, momentary switches that do behave differently based on where pressure is applied. Very little pressure at an angle can EASILY result in a doublestrike simply because it's shorting out to make a connection.