Montage by Yamaha

Sam CA · Post by **Sam CA** » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:03 pm

Jan1 wrote:...
That particular forum member is a troll copying what other people wrote, just check out page 1 of this thread and you will find that he copied Shefu's post.

Good catch Jan!

Post by **Sharp** » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:40 pm

I've deleted that account.

Regards
Sharp.

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:57 pm

someone from Musicplayer says we argue about the Montage

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthread ... as_finally

I didn't notice

rrricky rrrecordo · Post by **rrricky rrrecordo** » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:48 am

GregC wrote:someone from Musicplayer says we argue about the Montage

Tell 'em to scat right Bach from whence they came: www.instagram.com/p/BGbBcRMhGTj/?taken- ... yrrrecordo

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:58 am

rrricky rrrecordo wrote:
GregC wrote:someone from Musicplayer says we argue about the Montage
Tell 'em to scat right Bach from whence they came: www.instagram.com/p/BGbBcRMhGTj/?taken- ... yrrrecordo

you are an excellent promoter

rrricky rrrecordo · Post by **rrricky rrrecordo** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:11 am

GregC wrote: you are an excellent promoter

Promoter of fun I hope. Montage is really just another keyboard that does bring fun to me... like I said before, vintage Casios do the same.

When it stops being fun and games it will be because I am six feet under

vEddY · Post by **vEddY** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:34 pm

Khm. Let me try to offer my train of thought on this one, if I could

http://www.thomann.de/intl/yamaha_monta ... ch_prv_0_1
vs
http://www.thomann.de/intl/korg_pro_kro ... ch_prv_1_1

Pretty much the same price. On Sweetwater.com, it's $4000 (Montage) against $3699 (Kronos 88 ).

Please, if someone could enlighten me as to why Yamaha feels that their board should be equally priced or even more expensive then Kronos. If someone can, I have some cash to spare, I'll gladly buy it. And don't go with generic "they compliment each other" or "this amazing button that Montage has" crap. I'd really like to know the fine details as I've watched a gazillion Montage videos and I still can't figure out what is it that Montage can do that Kronos can't. While at the same time, I can think of a number of things that Kronos can do, while Montage can't.

Not trying to start another flame war here

JPROBERTLA · Post by **JPROBERTLA** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:38 pm

Got to spend another morning with the Mongtage last week and have come to the conclusion that it is not for me. Don't get me wrong, it has some really good basic sounds (except for the organs which are far below the standard of a keyboard in this price range) and interesting complex sounds that are fun to play around with, but the have little use in my situation. I am trying to solve polyphony issues so I will go with a Nord Electro 5D 73 and use it as the sound source for my live parts which are 95% piano, EP and organ. This makes a lot more polyphony available in the Kronos for the sequences and gives me an unweighted keybed to use for organs and synths. Cost a lot less too!

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:57 pm

I sat down with a Montage 8 last weekend for about 3 hours...

Sound was on par with my Kronos. However, many solo orchestral sounds (brass, wood, winds) that are part of the Montage are more dynamic then the stock Kronos sounds... But it seems many of these sounds come from the Tyros5 .. The organ sounds (B3) are far from authentic, yet still dont sound bad, inlike the sound, its just not Hammond but Yamaha that you hear..

The user interface is where this instrument shines, easy access to all major features, works very intuitive, challenges you to dive deep in the soundcreation process much more then its predecessor. There is no other instrument that comes even close to how easy and fluent this digital instrument with touchscreen operates..

The superknob, is just incredible usefull in many many performances.. Easy accesible.. But i have recreated this in a few Korg kronos Combo's... The arps are also great, but not much advanced compared to the Motif as it seems... The motion sequencer also has some uses however its not Karma, tough its much more accesible for programming...

The keyboard is build like a truck (as the weight of it indicates) everything feels and looks like it can withstand even the most drunk roady ever. The keybed might even be better then my Kronos88 (which i have come to adore over the last year)..

When judged by whats inside the box, this is a great instrument, but for me it does not add much to my Kronos/Tyros5 setup... yet now a few days later, it again feels like a missed chance for Yamaha, there is so much much much missing, technollogy allready owned by Yamaha,that could have brought the instrument on par with the Kronos..

jackh · Post by **jackh** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:05 pm

The Montage and the Kronos both feature great sound sets, but they also have significant differences. The Montage has two sound engines, and the Kronos has nine.
I created a few short demos for each engine, and you can visit korg.com to hear a different engine demo every week.
Here are the links for the SGX-2 and EP-1 demos:
https://soundcloud.com/korg/sets/kronos-sgx2-piano
https://soundcloud.com/korg/sets/kronos ... tric-piano

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:59 pm

jackh wrote:The Montage and the Kronos both feature great sound sets, but they also have significant differences. The Montage has two sound engines, and the Kronos has nine.
I created a few short demos for each engine, and you can visit korg.com to hear a different engine demo every week.
Here are the links for the SGX-2 and EP-1 demos:
https://soundcloud.com/korg/sets/kronos-sgx2-piano
https://soundcloud.com/korg/sets/kronos ... tric-piano

The comparison between 2 and 9 engines is superficial, and very "particular".

for example - the filter / DSP capabilities of the Kronos come from the OASYS so that's 12 year old algorithms. Indeed so is HD1 and many of the "engines" you cite.

Montage on the other hand is availing of digital algorithms and technology from today.

Now I'm not trying to be divisive here as I own two OASYS and love them - and as much as I like and use AL-1, PolysixEX and MS20EX and find them exquisite, I have to say that since owning an JP80 and trying an MOX, their filters are FAR better than any of the filters on the OASYS/Kronos.

Again - don't get me wrong AL-1, Poly6 and MS2O are capable - but - they are getting a tad dated in their sonic depth and breath. They could do with an update in my opinion - as per the JP80 update in this regard - as in - offering other, better, more current filter models. But that's never going to happen. So Pianos aside, Kronos is repackaged 12 year old synth technology! Montage on the other hand has a declared developmental path ahead of it which Kronos likely doesn't at this stage.

Also - some of the 'engines' you cite are sample based engines - and in similar vein the Montage Bosonderfer Grand Piano is an equivalent "Engine" to SGX; while FM-X, not used in FM mode, offers an 8 oscillator per voice Virtual Analogue capability. So you could regard that as four engines

But it's not a count of engines competition in any case; and again I'll say that it is only a lost opportunity for those of you wanting a workstation - but so is the Moog Voyager a lost opportunity - as a workstation. Montage isn't designed to be a workstation!

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:08 pm

Kevin Nolan wrote:
jackh wrote:The Montage and the Kronos both feature great sound sets, but they also have significant differences. The Montage has two sound engines, and the Kronos has nine.
I created a few short demos for each engine, and you can visit korg.com to hear a different engine demo every week.
Here are the links for the SGX-2 and EP-1 demos:
https://soundcloud.com/korg/sets/kronos-sgx2-piano
https://soundcloud.com/korg/sets/kronos ... tric-piano

The comparison between 2 and 9 engines is superficial, and very "particular".

for example - the filter / DSP capabilities of the Kronos come from the OASYS so that's 12 year old algorithms. Indeed so is HD1 and many of the "engines" you cite.

Montage on the other hand is availing of digital algorithms and technology from today.

Not arguing. I don't follow the assumption that 'new algorithms' are better than older algorithms

How so ? Is it audible ?

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:28 pm

Absolutely!There are a myriad of ways through which digital algorithms and their implementation are improving. We're nowhere near perfection in this regard, and every new generation of algorithms and DSP implementation improve things.

Everything from bit-depth of processing to actual algorithm design, implementation thought better and faster DSPs and DACs - it's all improving all of the time - significantly! Surely you know this? Compare the filters from the Motif ES to the MOX - there's no comparison. Consider NI Monark or, as said the JP80 filters - these all contain 'slightly better' digital filters than on OASYS / Kronos.

OASYS / Kronos are good - but they are becoming dated, by comparison.

I'm not saying OASYS / Kronos are bad. They are excellent - but there's just a 'nudge' of an improvement in this arena in recent years on many other platforms.

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:42 pm

Kevin Nolan wrote:Absolutely!There are a myriad of ways through which digital algorithms and their implementation are improving. We're nowhere near perfection in this regard, and every new generation of algorithms and DSP implementation improve things.

Everything from bit-depth of processing to actual algorithm design, implementation thought better and faster DSPs and DACs - it's all improving all of the time - significantly! Surely you know this? Compare the filters from the Motif ES to the MOX - there's no comparison. Consider NI Monark or, as said the JP80 filters - these all contain 'slightly better' digital filters than on OASYS / Kronos.

OASYS / Kronos are good - but they are becoming dated, by comparison.

I'm not saying OASYS / Kronos are bad. They are excellent - but there's just a 'nudge' of an improvement in this arena in recent years on many other platforms.

I would expect 'efficiency ' . You have a discerning ear and it appear you have owned these various instruments. I had the XS some yrs ago but nothing to ' bench mark' against.

I am locked into the Kronos for the past 5 yrs and I would not buy a new roland just because it has newer better filters, for example. Thats a 'corner case', IMO.

But the discussion is really about Korgs next great keyboard( Kronos successor). We have had this numerous times on the forum.

jackh · Post by **jackh** » Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:43 am

Hey there Kevin,
I love reading your posts, and I think you know how I've put my heart and soul into the OASYS, and into the Kronos sounds and development.
The nine engines in the Kronos have distinct personalities. They provide versatility, and I believe that's a good thing.
The filter / DSP capabilities of the Kronos were originally introduced in the OASYS, and I'm pretty sure that there are 12 year old algorithms (and older ones) that are still being used in many old, and new instruments today.
I love the OASYS, but the Kronos HD-1 engine has access to a bigger PCM ROM that can reference many more sounds from Korg and 3rd party libraries, as well as from it's HDD.
I'm quite fond of Chord, Unison (share) with Number Of Voices, Spread and Detune.
There are more KARMA GE patterns available (including Wavesequencing Patterns), and it has a Drum Track, which can also be used for melody lines & patterns by converting an RPPR patterns into a drum track patterns, and then assigning any program for playback.
The JP80 and MOX filters are very nice, but I also like the character and versatility of the Multi Mode Filter in the AL-1, STR-1 and MOD-7 engines. I've also used Effect 019 Stereo Multi Mode Filter from time to time.
I do realize that it's all subject to what you're trying to achieve musically.
Filters, faster DSP & DACs are all very important, but they're only part of the story. I really like the option of being able to select from 10 different curves for each envelope segment when I need to. Good implementation also has it benefits.
I tried copying a few single AL-1, Poly6 and MS2O programs to EXi2 using the Copy Oscillator function today, and then turned on the Vector Envelope. This was a quick and easy way of producing some very cool rhythmic and X-faded sounds. Combining and mangling sounds from two different engines is a lot of fun.
I think Korg has tried to acknowledge the past, present and future with the Kronos.
The ability to load OASYS .PCGs, .KSCs and .SNG files, DX-7 programs from sysex is a good nod to the past.
Free OS updates, adding the additional AA-GG program banks, improving the CX-3 & SGX-2 engines, make me feel good about the present and future.
Apples/oranges?

All the best,
-Jack-

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