Kronos (hardware) vs Komplete8 (software)

Discussion relating to the Korg Kronos Workstation.

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Bruce Lychee
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Post by Bruce Lychee »

Mystic38 wrote:omnisphere is probably the one VST that intrigues me most..
Bruce Lychee wrote:
mjames4208 wrote:i was going to purchase omnisphere, but now i think i'll just purchase komplete 8 ultilmate.
Lol. I did the exact opposite.

This will be my first real venture into VSTs. I ordered Omnisphere, Logic, a MacBook and the Novation SL MK2. I normally travel with my Virus and a PC based laptop, but my PC has given me nothing but headaches and the Virus can be a pain to bring around at times. I recently tried using my iPad but it isn't ideal. I'm hoping the new setup will make for a better rig for the road.
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CfNorENa
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Post by CfNorENa »

Bruce Lychee wrote:I ordered Omnisphere, Logic, a MacBook and the Novation SL MK2.
Hot damn, Bruce! You're on fire! Kronos 88 AND Jupiter 80 AND all of this! I want to come to your house to play. 8)
Korg gear: Kronos 73.
Other gear: Oberheim SEM | SCI Prophet 5 | Roland MKS-70 | Waldorf Microwave XTk
Bruce Lychee
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Post by Bruce Lychee »

CfNorENa wrote:
Bruce Lychee wrote:I ordered Omnisphere, Logic, a MacBook and the Novation SL MK2.
Hot damn, Bruce! You're on fire! Kronos 88 AND Jupiter 80 AND all of this! I want to come to your house to play. 8)
Do not speak of the Jupiter.

SF area members are welcome to drop me a pm if they want to check out this stuff first hand.
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Dany
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Post by Dany »

In my own experience, you get the best results, while producing in the studio, if you use high-end hardware like OASYS (or of course Kronos) combined with high-end software offered by NI, Arturia and Spectrasonics, running on a perfectly tuned computer system.

For example: to achieve a real mind-blowing sound of a Brass Section in a mix, I tailor, resp. fine tune the Brass Section sound in the mix by blending several Brass sounds from the OASYS in a Combination, with some Brass sounds from NI-Kontakt or Arturia-Brass, etc. Because even though most software solutions will surpass the realism for acoustic emulations, compared to OASYS (and yet Kronos), they often miss the character and personal expression or sometimes just some overtones or a special sound shine, that you are looking for your mix, which are only offered plentiful by hardware like OASYS/Kronos...

I couldn't live without both worlds in the studio. On the other hand for live applications, I think the hardware solutions are still sufficient and preferable. The only computer that I dare to use in a live context is an OpenLabs.Miko-LXD, which is totally reliable and stabil, has ultra low latency (4ms), has an astonishing sound quality and has much more power, than a perfectly tuned home-made PC or Mac solution with the same technical data in comparison. (And I have the comparison in front of me...)

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rrricky rrrecordo
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Post by rrricky rrrecordo »

Bruce Lychee wrote:This will be my first real venture into VSTs. I ordered Omnisphere, Logic, a MacBook and the Novation SL MK2. I normally travel with my Virus and a PC based laptop, but my PC has given me nothing but headaches and the Virus can be a pain to bring around at times. I recently tried using my iPad but it isn't ideal. I'm hoping the new setup will make for a better rig for the road.
You will love both Logic and Omnisphere!

As for the iPad, I'm finding that it's a great alternative to using my MacBook live. There are some brilliant and unique synths in the app store - I've bought almost all of them. They're mostly quite inexpensive, sound great, and they're easy to set up to work with my Motif XS... XS USB out into iPad (using the iPad camera kit) and audio out from the iPad into the XS inputs and that's it. The touchscreen on the iPad becomes a superb control surface for tweaking the synths while I play them from the keyboard. It's a beautiful thing! Even the apps that don't yet utilize Core MIDI are very useful live, just by playing them from the touchscreen, as some have interesting UIs. I can get unique sounds and textures with apps like SynthTronica, MorphWiz, SampleWiz, SynthX, SoundPrism, Curtis etc that would be difficult or impossible to achieve simply by playing the keys on the XS.

A great way to supercharge Kronos too, of course!

The only thing I miss when not using the Mac live now is Pianoteq, but I have K-Sounds Virtual C7 loaded into the XS for gigs, and it beats the stock XS pianos into the ground, and really sits nicely in the mix.

I love what the iPad does for my live setup, and I see it as the way forward for me. Can't wait for iPad 3!

Make sure you download OMNI TR for your iPad when you get Omnisphere up and running. It's incredible!
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Post by RonF »

rrricky rrrecordo wrote: Make sure you download OMNI TR for your iPad when you get Omnisphere up and running. It's incredible!
Indeed....OMNI TR takes Omnisphere to a new level...and really gives it a hardware feel.

If your're into iPad.....I strongly suggest you look at getting an Alesis I/O Dock. It literally transforms your iPad into a pro level hardware audio device. For one thing....it power's (AC) your iPad while having BOTH pro audio I/O and Midi I/O. The Camera Connection Kit cannot do this at all. Once you plug your iPad into the I/O Dock...you suddenly realize how powerful this is. Example....route Kronos outputs 3/4 out to the Alesis I/O input. Send the Alesis I/O output back to our Kronos inputs....now load up the Moog Filtatron on your iPad. Route a program on Kronos out 3/4......and prepare to be amazed. Suddenly....the iPad just became a fully functional super Moogerfooger. Or....use GarageBand for iPad as a 16 track (stereo) DAW with outstanding visual touch screen editing capabilities, and integrated midi sequencing (if only Apple would provide an update to allow for external midi control!!!...suddenly Kronos sequencer would have serious "touch screen" competition). Use StepPolyArp on iPad to sequence MS-20....or for a mind blow....sequence Poly 6 along side its internal Arpeggiator.....very poly-rhythmic. With the I/O dock...all of this is hardwired, just like a hardware synth or effect....but you can change the functionality of the device in seconds by loading a new IOS program. Without I/O Dock....iPad was a musical toy for me. With it....its suddenly a bona-fide audio component. :)
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAK ... LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.
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Post by EJ2 »

I have to give a big thumbs' up for the comments about Omnisphere, iPad, OMNI TR, iPad apps, and Alesis iDock Pro. Just incredible stuff.
Cheers,
Jim (aka EJ2) Karma-Lab Associate Combi Developer


CATALYST v 2 Blast of Inspiration for KRONOS & OASYS: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/catalyst2.html
CATALYST v 1 Combi Explosion for KRONOS, OASYS, M3, & K-M50: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/catalyst1.html
CHEMISTRY 3, a Groove Injection for Your Karma: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/chem3.html
SoundCloud MP3 Demoshttps://soundcloud.com/ej2-sc
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EJ2
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Post by EJ2 »

I have to give a big thumbs' up for the comments about Omnisphere, iPad, OMNI TR, iPad apps, and Alesis iDock Pro. Just incredible stuff.
Cheers,
Jim (aka EJ2) Karma-Lab Associate Combi Developer


CATALYST v 2 Blast of Inspiration for KRONOS & OASYS: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/catalyst2.html
CATALYST v 1 Combi Explosion for KRONOS, OASYS, M3, & K-M50: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/catalyst1.html
CHEMISTRY 3, a Groove Injection for Your Karma: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/chem3.html
SoundCloud MP3 Demoshttps://soundcloud.com/ej2-sc
Bruce Lychee
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Post by Bruce Lychee »

Yes. I also have the iodock. Great little affordable piece.

I'll definitely check out the Omni app. Thanks.
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Post by Dany »

Yes, Omnisphere is indeed THE synth revolution. I run it on my OpenLabs-Miko-LXD which transforms Omnisphere into an incredible, reliable and stabil hardware synth with touch screen and the haptic experience of a good old anaolgue synth with plenty of controllers. It is of course a quite expensive solution.

But we just have to wait some years and we will be able to run Omnisphere directly just on an iPad6 (or whatever similar product) of the future. The Alesis I/O Dock for the iPad leads the path to the future we can expect in the coming years...(with maybe a Vintage-OASYS-App for the iPadX of the future?)

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rrricky rrrecordo
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Post by rrricky rrrecordo »

I just go with the cam kit so I can attach the iPad to an iKlip and position it just above the mod wheels. I'm not sure how I'd position the Alesis dock. I originally tried propping the iPad up on a tier of my Apex stand, but the position was kinda awkward, hence the iKlip. Much better for me. Maybe I could snuggle the Alesis into a snare drum stand, and have it peeking out from under the mod wheels... hmm... worth looking into. Thanks, Ron!
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Post by RonF »

My biggest problem with the camera connection kit is the inability to power the iPad whilst using it. This makes it feel like a temporary installation to me. I don't want to have to keep swapping connectors. The I/O Dock allows for a permanent installation, including pro level I/O plus both DIN Midi plus USB midi, all at once...while being powered. It turns it into another hardware Synth/DAW/Effect/whatever..... Its really not much bigger than the iPad length and width.....height however is about an inch and a half high at the back....sloping into a wedge. It fits nicely on top of my JP80, in fact, on the right side where there is a suitable space. It surprised me that it was more compact than I expected, and its wedge shape makes it very accessible.
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAK ... LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.
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rrricky rrrecordo
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Post by rrricky rrrecordo »

No space on my XS6. I haven't had the iPad battery drop below 50% during a show yet.

However, I just now set my iPad into one of my Pearl S900 snare stands, and it's got the death grip! Easy to position just beside the mod wheels, and it's rock solid. Looks like I'm gonna have to get me one of them Alesis thingies after all!
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RonF wrote:
rrricky rrrecordo wrote: Make sure you download OMNI TR for your iPad when you get Omnisphere up and running. It's incredible!
Indeed....OMNI TR takes Omnisphere to a new level...and really gives it a hardware feel.

If your're into iPad.....I strongly suggest you look at getting an Alesis I/O Dock. It literally transforms your iPad into a pro level hardware audio device. For one thing....it power's (AC) your iPad while having BOTH pro audio I/O and Midi I/O. The Camera Connection Kit cannot do this at all. Once you plug your iPad into the I/O Dock...you suddenly realize how powerful this is. Example....route Kronos outputs 3/4 out to the Alesis I/O input. Send the Alesis I/O output back to our Kronos inputs....now load up the Moog Filtatron on your iPad. Route a program on Kronos out 3/4......and prepare to be amazed. Suddenly....the iPad just became a fully functional super Moogerfooger. Or....use GarageBand for iPad as a 16 track (stereo) DAW with outstanding visual touch screen editing capabilities, and integrated midi sequencing (if only Apple would provide an update to allow for external midi control!!!...suddenly Kronos sequencer would have serious "touch screen" competition). Use StepPolyArp on iPad to sequence MS-20....or for a mind blow....sequence Poly 6 along side its internal Arpeggiator.....very poly-rhythmic. With the I/O dock...all of this is hardwired, just like a hardware synth or effect....but you can change the functionality of the device in seconds by loading a new IOS program. Without I/O Dock....iPad was a musical toy for me. With it....its suddenly a bona-fide audio component. :)

I agree with you very much - except for one point - the iPad on its own is definitely NOT a musical toy - that's how I use it and it has revolutionised the way I manage and deal with music. I've posted a list of uses below which I posted before but which I feel is worth mentioning here.

A few questions for you:
- Does the Alesis I/O Dock allow for MIDI sync with external devices - for exampel the iMS20 or iElectribe syncing to the Kronos sequencer or with Logic Pro?

- Can the combination of iPad + Garageband + Alesis I/O Dock act as a mini-DAW - most especially for MIDI sequencing? For example - could you play the Kronos keyboard, have what's played be recorded into a MIDI track in Garageband, and have that track then play another synth also hooked up via MIDI?


Finally - though I've only started to use it - I find Omnishpere very superficial. Yes it sounds 'massive' like an instant "Inception soundtrack" synth engine - but honestly - I found many if not most of its presets unusable in any sort of practical situation - it's all too much ear-candy, too much gargantuan and gigantic processed-to-hell stuff, and the underlying samples about average. Simply put, there's nothing left for me to do or explore - I may as well put on a Hanz Zimmer Soundtrack for all the interactivity I feel I can have with Omnisphere. I'm quite surprised at how unusable it is. I'd say if you're a composer of games or teen-horror movies you'll love it, but beyond that it's incredibly unusable. I also found Omni TR to be trite and at best novel, but certainly not a serious synthesis control environment which, for example. iMS20 is; and with its Kaoss controllers propvides serious performance capabilities in a way Omni TR doesn't seem to offer. My two pennys worth on Omnisphere. I suppose I'm one of those who has to create or at least interact with the sound I'm using to create music, and Omnisphere leaves me out in the cold. Quite disappointing actually. I had bough the software before I had a computer to run it on properly - and only recently have been using it and as said - for me - it went down like a lead baloon.

Anyway, I'd be grateful for any answers you can provide on the capabilities of iPad with Garageband and Alesis IO Dock - mostespecially with respect to MIDI control of external hardware and MIDI sync with other devices.

thanks,
Kevin.

________________________________

iPad Uses:

For anyone interested - here is how I use iPad in my musical life:

- Control surface for DAWs - AC Core- Control Faders for Logic; and excellet transport control especially useful if you are sitting away from your computer as I so often am across the room at a vintage synth.

- Built in apps such as synths, like this exciting new MS20, as well as a plethora of drum machines, electribe, Jordan Rudess synth (like a mini Haken Continuum).... the list is endless and some of these synths sound incredibly impressive. The nLog synth for example sounds like a minimoog - its stronger than the Roland GIAI in tone, for example.

- iPad DAWs - there are numerous variants and many of them are very capable. Best of all is the ability to use an iPad step sequencer and use it for sketching, coming up with small sequences and so on.

- New iPad music apps that have no analogue to previous instruments. In other words - true iPad apps that provide new ways of music creation.

- Brilliant DJ music making tools. Though I've never been into DJ'ing, some of the iPad DJ tools are amazing and so cheap so I've bought one or two and am learning a whole bunch of stuff about DJ'ing, realtime control and manipulation of sound that I otherwise wouldn't have forked out the hundreds of dollars/euro for.

- Music notation. There are packages for entering music notation. They are fairly basic but this will only get better and they can be exported as MIDI files into other DAWs and scoring packages.

- Music utilities. for example an app called Backline Calc that does all types of conversions - frames rates to beats/bars to time, tempo... and so on and so on... invaluable for film/tv composing. Of course there are a huge number of these - even the free metronomes and tuners are incredible

- Music study. Now here is where the iPad had really made a massive difference to me. At the moment I'm thick in study of orchestral music and so with classical CDs loaded onto the iPod and dozens of orchestral scores loaded as PFD documents (free from IMSLP copyright free score web site), I can study the score by listening and viewing the score all in one succinct package - it's revolutionary. In fact there is even an app called ‘forscore’ that does the page turning (on selected scores) for you!

And - the new app AVID Scortch is fantastic for studying and analysing scores - it plays the score (and can handle ensemble scores) so it is nothing short of revolutionary for studying and analysing scores.

- As a store of all pdf documents for all my synths and software documentation. For example, sitting on my iPad is the 6000+ pages of all of Apple's music applications software, all the PDFs for my OASYS and so on....

- Apps that provide chord progressions and so on...

- Tuner

- Metronome

Admittedly these are with iPhone too:

- "FIRE" stereo fielod recorder - absolutley excellent portable recorder

- iPad MS20 and iElectribe + Monotribe + Korg SyncControl (fantastic!!)
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jimknopf
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Post by jimknopf »

Kevin, I'm very interested in an eletronic notation solution. That would be my main reason to buy an iPad or iPad2, even though my computer hardware is Windows 7 based and not Mac based.

Is Avid scortch restricted to Sibelius file format, or is there a way to use notation pdfs (perhaps after some kind of conversion) with it? Or is forscore the better choice for that?


Concerning the hardware vs software thing, it has become quite clear in this thread, that the question is rather, how and to which degree something as powerful as a Kronos can be embedded into hardware/software-solutions of all kinds, and then not just in connection with Komplete 8, but with all kinds of plugins (from Omnishere to East West libraries) and helpful tools (like the apps described above).

The Kronos plugin would definitely be welcome for this kind of discussion. :lol:
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5
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