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>The main manual was like an encyclopedia of all the substractive synthesis methods known to man. Reading it was as much fun as programming and playing the K2000!

I still have my manuals and a K2000 (not my original one).

I think I bought it for the filter alone. I remember it being the first digital synth that seemed to get the filters right.

I never did like the sounds I got out of it for the most part and it was very painful to program (to me). At the time though, I had to have it.

EvilDragon wrote:PC3 was never supposed to be a successor to the K2600. Other than that, I respect your opinions.

You're right about that. And I had to come back to the thread because I did rather lose my cool in my post for whatever reason. I don't want to bash the PC3. I really do love the thing. Mostly. In spite of a compressed sound on a number of patches, it does sound amazing, very much like a Kronos. It's just that it's the most downright painful synth I've ever had to program! Music instruments shouldn't act like they're full of bugs just because the way the thing works is so arcane and unorthodox. "Unorthodox" works okay for old Porsches, but music instruments shouldn't be structured like and as hard to understand as an old alchemist's grimorum. Wow...

I have a stupid number of instruments, but even so, the PC3 is much too powerful to leave out of my musical equations. When I finally get around to setting up the music room next week, I'll probably be hitting you up for some insight on how to tackle various issues on mine. I have the original 76 note semi-weighted keybed so I doubt you'll know what to do about the touch response, so maybe I'll head on over to Sonikmatter to get some input on that.

Chriskk wrote:Orchestral sounds on the SRX boards are killer IMO, especially harpsichord sounds. I sold my trusty XV-3080 early this year but soon realized I couldn't do without the SRX boards. So, I bought a Juno Stage just for the boards. The JS surprisingly sounds much clearer than the XV and Fantom X.

Wow, that's interesting. I sold my XV-3080 to get my Fantom X, and thought the Fantom sounded a little clearer too. They must use the same or similar DACs.

I want to get something at some point that uses the old SR-JV boards, because a few of them are unique. I'm tempted to get an XP workstation for that sequencer. It's so ridiculously cool!

Synthoid wrote:Sure, there are people who swear by Kurzweil, but that's because they have spent hours and hours struggling with them. They aren't intuitive to most musicians at all. Yes, you see various "stars" using Kurzweil onstage, but I bet someone else programs them!

Not to pile on more on this point, but I wouldn't be surprised. I wanted to get away from doing yet more typical rompler patches with mine and explore the arcane DSP stuff VAST is capable of. The problem is that the DSP functions are seriously on the level of rocket science. Nothing relates to anything we've experienced before in synthesis, so it's completely hit and miss. Mostly miss. And I've been forced to edit stock patches, or those I resorted to buying - the first synth I've bought patches for in almost 20 years. But the complexity of the VAST engine in the PC3 is so beyond what the previous versions are like, you really need a leg up since no one seems capable of making a tutorial seminar for it. This would be a good project for Kurzweil. "VAST Demystified! Mostly."

While this is a Kronos impression thread, I think the contrast with the PC3 and Jupiter-80 are very illuminating for all these synths. As a lover of all things synthetic, and with quite a bit of experience with a wide range of synthesizers, I can sure appreciate what they all bring to the table. I just hope that someday I can feast on what the PC3 offers as easily as I do my new Kronos, when I can grab one.

synthguy wrote:When I finally get around to setting up the music room next week, I'll probably be hitting you up for some insight on how to tackle various issues on mine. I have the original 76 note semi-weighted keybed so I doubt you'll know what to do about the touch response, so maybe I'll head on over to Sonikmatter to get some input on that.

Cool, I'll gladly help with whatever I know. I've played the PC3 too so I know how it feels roughly, but yes, I wouldn't be able to help you first hand because that PC3 is about 300 km away in the hands of a friend of mine.

synthguy wrote:Not to pile on more on this point, but I wouldn't be surprised. I wanted to get away from doing yet more typical rompler patches with mine and explore the arcane DSP stuff VAST is capable of. The problem is that the DSP functions are seriously on the level of rocket science. Nothing relates to anything we've experienced before in synthesis, so it's completely hit and miss. Mostly miss.

When non-linear DSP processing is concerned, then yes, it is a bit of hit and miss (that's why it's NON-linear!). Wave wrapping and shapers are completely unpredictable on non-periodic waveforms - fun times! However, I find most other DSP blocks quite easy to understand, as there really isn't much fuss about it: you got your DSP oscillators, filters, parametric EQ, PWM, mix, xfade, ringmod, etc. Fairly understandable, I'd say. But yeah, SHAPER and WRAP demand the most experimentation of them all.

synthguy wrote:But the complexity of the VAST engine in the PC3 is so beyond what the previous versions are like, you really need a leg up since no one seems capable of making a tutorial seminar for it. This would be a good project for Kurzweil. "VAST Demystified! Mostly."

There's quite a bit of useful info and tutorials and tricks on Mastering VAST forum. I see you (or somebody with your alias) are registered there, but with 0 posts. If that's not you, then get registered, you're missing out on a lot!


Cheers, catchya later online, then!

burningbusch wrote:I hope you people who are making judgements on the presets know that 95%+ of the sounds in user banks I-A through I-G use only the original OASYS 314MB "ROM". User-A has a smattering of programs based on the EXis.

On the SSD there are two EXi3 program banks, one EXi3 combi bank plus a bunch of EXi3 samples that aren't loaded.

Just saying, as I'm finding the EXi3 winds/brass to be OUTSTANDING when programmed, especially when using a breath controller.

Busch.

That's really interesting. Though I have to say really dumb on Korg's part as far as showcasing the instrument. I understand they wanted to keep the patches in tact with different pre-loads but come'on, the OASYS was 2005!

I hear that the strings might be a little too "Clean" or "Thin" to some people's ears. Sounds to me like they have a great clarity that allows flexibility for voicings. I thought that demo sounded great. I REALLY liked when the unison strings came in. I've never heard ANY hardware keyboard do THAT! To my ears the Kurzweils are very warm, but to a fault of sounding muddy and dull to me. When I auditioned them, I really never got what all the hype about them was. I thought the Motif wiped the floor up with it! But hey, YMMV.

I'm still patiently waiting for Kronos to be available on the floor to audition at Alto Music in Middletown NY. I'll be sure to check out the EX banks before passing judgement keeping the OASYS banks in mind.

Thanks!

NuSkoolTone wrote:

burningbusch wrote:I hope you people who are making judgements on the presets know that 95%+ of the sounds in user banks I-A through I-G use only the original OASYS 314MB "ROM". User-A has a smattering of programs based on the EXis.

On the SSD there are two EXi3 program banks, one EXi3 combi bank plus a bunch of EXi3 samples that aren't loaded.

Just saying, as I'm finding the EXi3 winds/brass to be OUTSTANDING when programmed, especially when using a breath controller.

Busch.

That's really interesting. Though I have to say really dumb on Korg's part as far as showcasing the instrument. I understand they wanted to keep the patches in tact with different pre-loads but come'on, the OASYS was 2005!

Both INT-A and USER-A showcase new sounds.

The first bank, INT-A, is all EXi Programs (none sample-based save for the SGX-1 pianos), many brand new. INT-B through INT-F are HD-1 Programs using the ROM and EXs1. USER-A is HD-1 Programs, many of them new, using the EXs8 and EXs9 VMT drums, EXs3 brass & woodwinds, EXs4 vintage keys, and EXs5 (mellotron, sfx, etc.), as well as new Wave Sequence sounds.

Hope this helps,

Dan

Yesterday i tried the kronos for the first time, actually even at two different stores. Below some random thoughts that comes to my mind:
To be honest i was abit overwhelmed by the depth of this machine... but geesh did it sound great.

Pianos where great, just need to adjust them to my liking, a little less brightness and voila.

I really found some very nice pads here and there in the machine and with the SST it was a joy to play them. Really liked SST, it just.. worked. And the dynamic voice allocation worked great aswell what I could see, was checking the CPU performance tab and I started bashing away notes with a heavy layered combi and yes it started showing dropped notes but nothing you could actually hear!

When I stumbled upon the mellotron sounds my first that was why would I ever need my nord electro again? They were actually better than i thought, M3's mellotrons were abit of a let down, no variety and they sounded nowhere near the ones i needed.
But i changed my mind when I came across the organ sounds, this is when i started arguing with myself if i would keep my electro after getting kronos . The overall tone of the CX3 I just fine but the thing that did not really convince me was the overdrive (from knob 2). From a preset pach I did not seem to be able to produce those Jon Lord'ish overdrive organs that I can easily produce on my electro. The kronos drive just goes to "5" instead of "10" like the on electro, so no where near to be honest.
Im sure you can create these sounds by adding additional FX but then it's more fiddling, maybe that why i like the electro so much, its so simple and straightforward, the button for drive is just there. But I'ts not fair to compare these two machines directly to be honest either since they have totally different approaches anyway but just can't decide what to do.

Knobs, buttons & faders seemed all fine, I don't really need to mention the round-dial, it just stood out like a sore thumb. The vector joystick was abit of a concern too, it seemed very loose but I read it is supposed to bee like that. But on the second store i tried it in... it was off and i tried pushing it to wort it did not work.

One thing that bothered me with the hardware interface was the placement of the Reset controlls button, WHY would you place it on the right side of the faders! Now im unable to reset controlls with one hand like on the M3 since there it was placed to the left.
Second thing is that why are they not filtering the GM banks to the back when in category mode... it makes no sense to have them in the middle, you did on the M3..


But overall i was really happy with the machine, it sounded great and I was familiar with the OS even if it was X amount of times deeper than my M3. Tried the RH3 on the M3 in the store aswell and was surprised how playable they were, Kronos 88 would be the ultimate, but I will end up getting the 61 (for the weight) pared with 88-key controller.

Thanks for the review Jon.
Actually I found the organs quite good myself but I don't care much about (too much) overdrive, so that explains the difference.

About the dial: I heard from a shop owner that some part is missing and after 'installing' it, the knob works fine. I didn't see it in the repaired state tough.

I also noted the stolen notes (and couldn't hear them).

The overdrive weakness of the Kronos CX3 is something Korg should definitely adress in a future update. You can't use the present overdrive with anything beyond some very low and smooth settings. With stronger settings it sounds harsh, scratchy and digital and is missing all the tube warmth and soft distortion of a real overdrive.

This is an unnecessary letdown for the otherwise really fine Kronos B3 clone IMO.

I also checked the IFX alternative (Overdrive/Leslie): it is slighly better concerning the overdrive, with a weaker Leslie, so you won't get too far with this alternative either. I found no settings to solve the problem.

The by far best solution would be a reprogrammed CX3 overdrive.

By the way: it is similar with the EPiano EXi: I always take IFX amp modeling here, because the internal EXi drive settings just don't produce convincing drive/overdrive. I guess once the programmers find convincing drive for one, it should work fine in a similar way for the other as well.

I had my Kronos 61 for around 8 weeks now, and it has grown on me to a point of no return. This is truly one excellent instrument, limited by my abilities and not it’s features.

In the beginning I was a little taken back, the piano sound were not what I expected, and the combi’s were overwhelming and not inspiring.

After about the first 2 weeks I started to come to terms with the performance aspects of the instrument, I adjusted the velocity sensitivity to my liking and got the Korg padKontrol working. The piano sound (Germany Grand) started to grow on me, or should I say I learned how to play it. All of a sudden I found myself playing the piano Programs without any other accompliment, for hours on end.

After about 4 weeks I came to terms with many of the Combi’s and learned how to play with KARMA. I think the Kronos has more low end (frequency) content than my other keyboards and I’ve grown accustom to it, as it was a distraction in the beginning.

Here I sit, playing away on week 8, convinced that this is one powerful keyboard. It will take me a while to learn how to program all nine engines. I found myself using the other keyboards simply as additional solo additional to the Kronos, like using the Motif XF to supply guitar sounds, while the Kronos supplies 90% of the sound.

I’ve recorded two songs into the sequencer with no issues what-so-ever. I’ve even done a little light editing, very easily done.

The manuals (Operations and Parameter) are second to none, even with the handful of typo’s I’ve discovered. I find myself reading through them more than the new Sweetwater catalog!

My only complaint now is the font size, I have to wear my reader glasses when doing anything more than selecting Programs or Combi’s.

All in All, I am extremely pleased with the Kronos. I am glad I bought it sight unseen, just like the M3, who is starting to gather a little dust. I can’t wait to play this keyboard out live with other musicians.

Very much enjoying the kronos for the 2 days I have had it. My first complaint though is in regards to that damn touch screen. I regularly find myself having to tap 5 times to get to a program parameter...or to get the popup list for a parameters attributes.
Couple things about my complaint:
1) all of the functionality that I would need very quickly in terms of a live performance are big enough buttons where the above is not an issue. It is more when creating sounds and stuff.

2) I will certainly be looking into getting a stylus for my work at home..but its just another thing I have to keep track of, which I'm horrible at doing.


The sounds thusfar have been great. With my Triton, I typically kept most programs and combis the same with very little tweaking. For some reason, the layout of the screens and stuff has given me a boost of confidence and I have actually changed and tweaked nearly every preset patch that I plan on using live. Very comfortable around the main interfaces thus far.
(Have done pretty much nothing with Karma other than turned it on a few times).
Still have a lot to go in terms of exploring sounds too.

The keybed was a bit different than I was used to, but after only 2 days I'm already starting to love it. Feel like I can move faster on it than on my triton.

My next step will likely be to get some of the tweaks mentioned in this forum for certain sounds (especially the CX3 stuff).

Loving it so far though.