Kronos (hardware) vs Komplete8 (software)

[Sina172]

...

[Bruce Lychee]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I think 2.3 Macbook with 4g ram and 512 gb SSD. Sound right?

Perfect! And you're welcome.

What size are you getting?

Sina

15' but I have to think abut the SSD as there seem to be long term issues with SSD rewrites?

[Mystic38]

Enjoying this thread.... Just glad that Komplete is not made by Roland

I dont think i will be joining the ranks for Komplete.. Who will ever browse all those patches and learn all those instruments and still find time to make music?.. I think i already have to many sound sources.

I am however another Maschine user...about 2 weeks in... It's a blast and while it won't fully replace a DAW, it does become a great beat/segment/idea scratchpad .. It's amazing what you can do with a single sample

[jeamsler]

Regarding the midi latency issue mentioned before, the kronos does indeed have about 8ms initial note on latency. I've been testing synths in this way for a long time and can say though the result is not steller it is not awful either. Hardware synths can vary quite a bit in latency though they have been better in the last 10 years or so. The Kronos falls at the lower end of what has been acceptable for inital latency. A Korg Wavestation or Yamaha S80 are much better. The upside is that the Kronos can spit out 8 notes extremely fast by hardware standards with essentially the latency equal to that inherent in midi. The ear is not terribly sensitive to absolute latency. Acoustic instruments can have alot of latency. Also don't believe what your sound card panel etc. is telling you about latency. They are almost always wrong by a significant amount usually erring on the low side. You may think you're listening to 7ms latency but it is probably more like 25ms. The more important number is how consistent is this latency. In this the Kronos is middle of the pack. Probably on the upper side of the middle I'd say. Not a deal breaker but if you are concerned you should certainly play it before buying (duh). By the way if you want to get a sense of how sensitive you are to note on latency, there is a control when in program mode on the common page that adds delay to note ons. Try it with a piano patch and vary it and see if you can tell the difference between stock Kronos latency and adding more.

With regard to vsti, I've not tested a computer setup that is better than even middle of the road hardware in terms of variance in latency. Which is to say that the average latency might be low but it can vary widely over time. Some setups are better but they all seem to have this characteristic. If you want hardware performance from vsti then the best is Muse Receptor. The Receptor has latency variance of the best hardware, unbelievably good. The Receptor has its own issues but in terms of performance it is the best when playing vsti.

[BasariStudios]

I wonder how many MacBooks and how many MacPros Sina has.

[rkuli]

I think I will probably upgrade. I have Komplete 2 (from wayyyy back) which I can upgrade for a discounted price although I think the discounted upgrade price becomes the standard/default price 9 months or so from now.

RK

[cachete1966]

I think this...

If you cant feel the latency when you play.....

I dont care how many is !!

If the latency dont let me play... Well OK, this is a real problem!!

Too many hardware synth that all love... Have too much latency !! Over 8 msec...!

I read ( i dont remember where).... In the 80s & 90s. The typical latency was 13 to 15msec.

When appears the softsynth... The people began to measure this parameter...

But.. 8msec from direct ssd streaming play... Is not bad.

And again...

If you can feel or hear when you play.... The latency can be 6, 8, 12, 16......
And this is not import!!

Dont search the 5th leg in a cat..!

Overall....

Thanks for all response to this topics.

For me....

Softsynth + hardsynth. .... ( in this order) for use in post production, arrangers, and prer productions....!!
For compose with the heart... A real piano or a very good keyboard with a inspirating sound...!
To live play..... A hardsynth...!! With sample... ( to sample some sound from the studio )

[master logic]

The Receptor has its own issues but in terms of performance it is the best when playing vsti.

Can you elaborate a little on the Receptor's issues?

[Kevin Nolan]

I'm an OASYS owner (and future Kronos owner later in the year).

I also just upgraded my computer to a 17" MBP, quad i7 2.3GHz with 512 SSD HD and 8GB Ram. I own Komplete 7 and just preordered Komplete 8 Ultimate.

I also own all of the Arturia, Spetrasonics, Eastwest and other libraries.

The OASYS / Kronos solution to synthesis is, in my opinion, actually superior because fo the following reasons:

- Latency (although my current computer is jaw droppingly fast) - but still would not compete with even the OASYS at voice counts of 170+

- Longevity. With a software only solution; you are always vulnerable to the existence of the product and the company. If NI goes out of business, Komplete can only last a few more OS upgrades - and any creativity on your system will need to be mixed down by then, never to be returned to for remixing. This is a serious issue for me. If in 10 years I want to return to a composition done on a softsynth now gone, I'm stranded. Given that our creative output is everything to us - this is a big risk. Already NI have shown they are more than capable of cancelling products - they just cancelled Kore and previously cancelled softsynths like Pro 52.

So contrary to common belief - where hardware is seen as more troublesome, I believe in the long run that modern hardware is a far better solution than software, for longevity sake.

- User interface. I cannot stand the idea that I can look at an Arturia CS80V on the screen and cannot get at its controls other than via a mouse (or some tacky controller). And even though the OASYS is quite similar in this regard, the integration of the touch screen, physical controllers (including the keyboard, ribbon, joysticks) - and even the various options for data entry - make it a far quicker, far more intuitive sound creation and performance experience. Only when all softsynths offer iPad multitouch control will they compete on this level.


While for sample packages software is the only earnest way to go, in my view for stage pianos, organs and the very, VERY best of Virtual Synthesis, the Kronos (and OASYS), as a package, offer THE ideal solution.

Don't get me wrong - I think NI Komplete is excellent and offers enormous possibilities I don't feel I can do without; but I have to acknowledge how much more sophisticated, capable, responsive (and safer for the long run) the likes of the Kronos and OASYS still are. I believe there's plenty of life in and future for these types of instruments - for pianos, organs and synthesis in particular. And I especially like the idea that I can return to my OASYS in 10 years and recall exactly what I’ve done today – that guarantee is not there for the likes of Komplete and I’m very wary about committing my ideas to composition environments that will not last. I know this will not be an issue to many of you - but it is for me becuase I'm building several large scale projects simultaneously over several years and need longevity. I was just about to dive into Kore when all of a sudden it was cancelled - that gives me the werby-jerbies way beyond the cancellation of any hardware.

Kevin.

[mjames4208]

i was going to purchase omnisphere, but now i think i'll just purchase komplete 8 ultilmate.

[Bruce Lychee]

i was going to purchase omnisphere, but now i think i'll just purchase komplete 8 ultilmate.

Lol. I did the exact opposite.

[jeamsler]

>If you cant feel the latency when you play.....
>I dont care how many is !!

Absolutely agree. One reason why I use a receptor. Playing a piano vsti through computer always felt like the rhythm was getting away from me. Very unsure feel for me. Playing a real piano is the opposite and so is playing a receptor with piano vsti for me. But that has to do with whether the latency varies over time. An acoustic instrument may have a high latency but you can adapt to it as long as it remains relatively constant and predictable. VSTis' on computers are not so predictable. For others they don't seem to notice the difference. So to each what works for you.

>Too many hardware synth that all love... Have too much latency !! Over 8 msec...!
>I read ( i dont remember where).... In the 80s & 90s. The typical latency was 13 to 15msec.

That is simply not true. It really depends on what you are measuring. Are you talking about the first note on or how long it takes to play a bunch of simultaneous notes? Two different situations really. Lots of synths from the 90s and even 80s had decent first note on latency of 3-6ms. In fact the majority of big name synths did. Now how long did it take to play 8 notes at once, that was another question.

>But.. 8msec from direct ssd streaming play... Is not bad.

Well ok but it is not great either. It is a tradeoff between having enough time to do the computations necessary to produce a sound and getting the latency down to an acceptable level. Other Korg synths for example have initial note on latency of half that or better, so I don't think Korg is using 8ms as a target but it is the best compromise given the hardware and price.

[jeamsler]

The Receptor has its own issues but in terms of performance it is the best when playing vsti.

Can you elaborate a little on the Receptor's issues?

The receptor is a module with little front panel control. If you want to do any editing on it you have to attach a monitor, kb, mouse. You can for the most part edit the system and vsts this way but it is not as user friendly as say a hardware synth. All vsti do not work on a Receptor. For some this is a huge issue because they have some favorites, so if you are thinking about buying one you need to check whether the particular vsts you like can work on it. The company is not very user friendly for lack of a better term. They are slow to bring out plugins converted to receptor format and installation of plugins can be less than smooth. They have also made promises or insinuate promises that they have later reneged on. Some features can be hit or miss as to whether they work well for you such as the remote software; some people have no problems others do. To me these are the main issues.

[master logic]

Thank you!

[Mystic38]

omnisphere is probably the one VST that intrigues me most..

i was going to purchase omnisphere, but now i think i'll just purchase komplete 8 ultilmate.

Lol. I did the exact opposite.