Curios - and a great pity

[Kevin Nolan]

Dr. Who -

Excellent post. You are probably right in everything you say. Certainly this all makes sense - from a marketing perspective for sure.

But - I will add the following - despite everything you say, while OASYS was a commercial failure, it was a massive technical success. That should be celebrated. After all - it’s the truth – and denying this is simply burying your head in the sand and being less than honest with the Kronos community. There’s no other way of saying it. The CS80 and Prophet 5 were not commercial success stories - yet they have become classic (and certainly the CS80 was niche even in its time). Secondly, Roland's original Fanthom was a disaster, but they stuck with it and whether you love or loath Roland, the Fanthom has been very successful for them. Roland were not in denial of their original failure in this regard; but Korg are – and sadly - with probably their greatest technical achievement in their history.

So I do not see the need for Korg to hide OASYS as they have done; despite its polarizing nature among the community. Korg can never again claim that they took the moral high ground over other companies in being experimental and producing superlative quality - they are in total denial of OASYS and have shunned their achievement for ever more - and if you are to believe there is any historical relevance to synthesizer development - history will record this.

I was shocked at Dan Phillips reference to "in the OASYS days" a few days ago over on the Kronos forum. What he is squarely saying to the new and prospective Kronos community is that OASYS is now ancient history and it and its community did not matter – at least – that’s the way many of us read it. I'm frankly very surprised by the blanked denial of OASYS’s place in synthesizer development by Dan and Korg R&D USA on this front - I certainly couldn't abandon something I was so passionate about so easily for simple current-market-place. It's their loss; not mine or ours - because there is something far more important about all this - that OASYS is a truly significant instrument for making music - and Korg do not acknowledge that! Stunning! They should have taken a far more chilled, ar far more philosophical and a far more holistic approach to OASYS – and her user base – but no – Korg decided – for all the reasons you point out and which are legitimate from a marketing perspective – to abandon and even go into denial on OASYS.

However - I like you have not only moved on from this; it really doesn't matter to me personally - my musical life continues to be transformed by OASYS and I've already preordered a Kronos 88! To me - it's a fantastic extension - all the time spend and expertise developed at OASYS can be extended by Kronos. Now if Korg had only been a bit cleverer and used that sort of approach to promoting Kronos (through liaison with top musicians who HAVE embraced OASYS). So I personally harbour no grudge – I've repeatedly said that Korg own me or any of us nothing. And I think they should be HUGELY applauded for releasing Kronos (though I feel they missed a few tricks even in this through better sequencers already in the M3 and though a simpler more effective Karma engine integration into groove-based composition aka Stylus RMX – Stephen Kay and Korg JUST aren’t biting on that – I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – Karma is awesome but it’s just too difficult – any technology needing that number of pages of documentation needs simplification...). Nevertheless, despite saluting Korg on this true game changer – and it is indeed a game changer because this gargantuan technology is finally available for the masses and that's magnificent IMO – as a separate point, their denial of the existence of OASYS is a sad indictment on the company and their treatment of existing user-bases that is dually noted.

I can only imagine that each and every Korg OASYS development team member must be sick with themselves when they put their head on the pillow at night for having to sell out - for all time - on their one and only true contribution to music technology in history - I know I'd be sick with myself if I had to deny something I put that much effort into, simply as a marketing ploy. It must be truly a disorientating experience for them.

But – I’ve said enough and will shut up on it now – I’m not some nerd splitting hairs - I’m an earnest composer and need to get back to work – but I do believe in the historical relevance of OASYS and find it incredibly sad that Korg have written themselves out of history as having made a brave and unique contribution to music technology through OASYS. If they want to deny that that’s their call; but it’s a mistake IMO – the risk, the attempt and the technical success were enough for history, but clearly not enough for Korg’s president and Korg’s marketing team.

…Back to some serious composing on my OASYS…

Kevin.

[Dr. Who]

Dr. Who -

Excellent post. You are probably right in everything you say. Certainly this all makes sense - from a marketing perspective for sure.

But - I will add the following - despite everything you say, while OASYS was a commercial failure, it was a massive technical success.

However - I like you have not only moved on from this; it really doesn't matter to me personally - my musical life continues to be transformed by OASYS and I've already preordered a Kronos 88! To me - it's a fantastic extension - all the time spend and expertise developed at OASYS can be extended by Kronos.

HUGELY applauded for releasing Kronos (though I feel they missed a few tricks even in this through better sequencers already in the M3 and though a simpler more effective Karma engine integration into groove-based composition aka Stylus RMX – Stephen Kay and Korg JUST aren’t biting on that – I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – Karma is awesome but it’s just too difficult – any technology needing that number of pages of documentation needs simplification...).

Nevertheless, despite saluting Korg on this true game changer – and it is indeed a game changer because this gargantuan technology is finally available for the masses and that's magnificent IMO – as a separate point, their denial of the existence of OASYS is a sad indictment on the company and their treatment of existing user-bases that is dually noted.

But – I’ve said enough and will shut up on it now – I’m not some nerd splitting hairs - I’m an earnest composer and need to get back to work –
…Back to some serious composing on my OASYS…

Kevin.

Kevin,

I love how you say, Dr. Who I agree with everything you say, you're right but you are also very wrong. Ha!

I'm just having a go, not offended at all. Trust me I know what you are saying. I think we are both pretty aligned here. OASYS a Massive Technical success??? You betcha! We've basically been playing Korg's new big thing for 2011 and (tracking with it) for years now. We've been the lucky few.

Yeah we disagree as to why no mention of the O and the Kronos lineage, but the Greek god Kronos ate his children I just see it simper that if they metnion OASYS there will probably be some negative questions. By not mentionign OASYS extensively, they have to expect they will anger OASYS owners by playing it safe and not mentioning the O. Rememebr the O sold 3000 units so max people upset at korg is close to the 3000 range. It the safer marketing strategy. We can agree to disagree on that one point. No harm no foul.

Kinda scary how much I totally agree with everything else you've written. I'm still torn whether or not to get an 88 key and part with my O. The SSD is really really tempting and having support for a new instrument is a great thing indeed. But dang the O looks so darn cool! Good thing I wasn't in charge of OASYS marketing. In the end I will most likely end up with a Kronos.

I think you and I are in the minority in regards to Karma. So many people rave about it and it's depth. I think it's cool to play with from time to time but way too complicated to get certain things out of it. You really don't have control over what you're doing just the starting point. Sure it can inspire with some crazy arp textures but how many major artists are releasing tracks with Karma all over it. Maybe some are but I ahven't noticed. I have noticed horrible Roland SH201 arps in Timbaland songs ugh... All due respect to Mr. Kay (he is pretty darn brilliant) but most Karma songs I hear sound very "workstationish." We'll both probably get drug over the coals, but I'd love to see Karma go and something more usuable like Stylus RMX implemented. I think most that think this is a horrible idea haven't used Stylus RMX. If you have more control you can increase workflow and also inspire much more easily. Sadly there are some other lacking features with the Kronos such as the effects section, still can't do what a TI does. If you like how a patch sounds when in sequencer mode you get that patch with effects in multi mode too with zero work involved... not on a Korg. Copy and paste and with multiple patches you have to look for workarounds. But still the Kronos is a huge leap fwd and i am happy for Korg.

And so yes... let's get back to work... Last night I did some trailer work. I used my Big O but only as a controller for VSL! Sad really The worlds most expensive 88 key weighted controller keyboard...

[EXer]

...
KRONOS is like the ANTI-OASYS.

I seem to recall a similar Hate for the Triton,simply because it was a big seller,most people slate it
...
And much of that factor to buy a Kronos is simply because they always wanted an Oasys but slagged it off because of its price tag it was out of reach for most,now those exact same people will gloat at the fact they have the same machine as the Oasys for a fraction of the price and proclaim to the gods how great it is...

May I just add my 2 cents as a prospective Kronos buyer?

Personnally, I happen to hate some people, but I don't hate a keyboard, neither do I hate a make nor praise another one...

I'm a Yamaha EX5 user (please read on before killing me!), that I bought new when the Trinity was discontinued and when the Triton was released.

10+ years ago, I chose the EX5 over the Triton: I listened carefully to the programs with the effects turned off, and *my* conclusion was that the Triton shone thanks to its effects and to its combis (dare I say the Triton is a fake on a Korg forum?), but that the synthesis engines of the EX5 were better (that's my opinion). I also believe that the Trinity had a better synth engine than the Triton, at least it had better or more versatile filters. If I had had the money at that time, I would have bought a Trinity V3 Pro X besides my EX5...

I have extended my keyboard setup with other gear that complement my EX5 with other types of syntheses: a K5000 (additive), a FS1R (FM and Formant Shaping), and VAs. As you can understand, I'm a synth enthusiast and a synth programmer more than a preset user.

I have been keeping an eye on the workstation market to replace my aging EX5 since many years, but nothing seemed to suit me: to my opinion, the Fantoms were nothing else than an extended JV engine, the Tritons evolved by receving a larger ROM but otherwise remained the same, the Motifs were basically a cut down EX5 (as far as the synthesis engine(s) are concerned) with an extended ROM and tons of presets, and then came the Oasys.

I carefully read the specs and I tested one with my ears wide open. My conclusion was: this is a musical instrument for me.

Unfortunately, I could not afford it. And even if I could afford it, I would not have been convinced that its price was justified, the more so that you had to give extra cash for EXis that were not standard...

But I never 'hated' it, nor did I say it is a bad keyboard...

The M3 never appealed to me, because it didn't have the looks that, to my opinion, a high end Korg workstation should have, i.e. the classicity and the intemporality of a Trinity...

Now, the Oasys has just been re-released in a cut down (as far as the hardware is concerned) and an improved (as far as the software and data storage are concerned) version, under the name 'Kronos' and at a more affordable price, and that's very good news, at least for me...

I would like to say a word to Oasys owners: don't regret anything. When you bought an Oasys, you just bought a (damn good) keyboard that had given features at the moment you bought it, you did not buy a long term relationship with its maker. Enjoy your Oasys, make music with it, don't care about what Korg has done or has not done...

Kronos is not an anti-Oasys, it's just a product that relies on an investment that Korg has made before.

[peter m. mahr]

Well put.

Peter

[EX5 owner as well, long time ago]

[Akos Janca]

I would like to say a word to Oasys owners: don't regret anything. When you bought an Oasys, you just bought a (damn good) keyboard that had given features at the moment you bought it...

That's true.

...you did not buy a long term relationship with its maker.

(To be fair, in my case yes, because) when I bought OASYS I didn't really care much about the extensions, it was already so good in itself! (Remember that feeling guys?) Then I saw the "years to come" sentence - which means a long relationship I think - and the extras and additions coming, and I was even happier. (I still have some hope now.) But if software development is also finished then that "years to come" lasted for approx. 4 years.

Enjoy your Oasys, make music with it, don't care about what Korg has done or has not done...

I like this.

[SoulBe]

Enjoy your Oasys, make music with it, don't care about what Korg has done or has not done...

Hi and welcome to the forum.

That´s true and even if OASYS developments have ended and even if there might be no spare parts for repairing an broken O sometimes at last we know that the sound engines and our soundscreations will survive in Kronos ....... That btw would be the only reason for me by now to consider buying a Kronos, if my O is broken and cannot be repaired.

best regards
SoulBe

[Charlie]

@EXer: welcome to our forum + thanx for this good comment ... you analyzed it quite well!