Montage8 vs Kronos 88 - The Decision

[kronoSphere]

Hello NETWORK1
What you show in your post is the modx sequencer. What about the Montage sequencer ???

[leonh]

They are very basic sequencers that why Yamaha gives you Cubase for free on its own Montage or Modx is no match for Kronos sequencer.

[NETWORK1]

Hello NETWORK1
What you show in your post is the modx sequencer. What about the Montage sequencer ???

oh im sorry , your right
i didnt read the post correctly,
hes intrested in the old Montage 8, not the New modx8 replacement-upgrade

so iv no idea whats in the Original-montage 8.
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They are very basic sequencers that why Yamaha gives you Cubase for free on its own
Montage or Modx is no match for Kronos sequencer.

i PERSONALLY ,find the kronos 16 trax sequencer, belongs in a museum
it slows me down to much.

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If he just wants a digital weighted piano and wont really be composing or mastering,
then maby hes looking in the wrong direction entirely

https://youtu.be/q951k0LcggQ?t=482







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[GregC]

They are very basic sequencers that why Yamaha gives you Cubase for free on its own Montage or Modx is no match for Kronos sequencer.

exactly right. The bare bones sequencer in the Montage/MODX is a scratch pad.

No comparison to the Kronos sequencer. And if folks don't like the Kronos SEQ, thats their call. I use it all the time and the work flow is excellent for writing multi track songs.

[GregC]

I found out something today on a Montage Forum from someone who has both the Kronos and the Montage. There was a discussion regarding Polyphony, which is extremely important for me since I want to be able to have multiple instruments sequenced, while at the same time I also play numerous multiple layer sounds, splits, vocoder, etc.

What they said was that they wished their Kronos had more Polyphony, which I thought was odd, because I had read about all the 9 engines on the Kronos and all the Polyphony that each engine had. Knowing that the Montage only has 2 engines, but the polyphony can be added together, I had assumed that the Kronos could do the same. This person said it was just the opposite and that you can't add polyphony from all the engines the Kronos, and that when playing numerous voices('parts') from the two engines on the Montage, there is more polyphony than the Kronos.
They weren't talking about the polyphony of just playing one instrument from one engine, but rather, multiple instruments from possibly several engines.
Is this true about the Kronos' polyphony?

I will try to get your post back on topic. K2 polyphony is an important consideration.

What you are reading on other forums sounds about right.

I can summarize it. The polyphony on the K2 is limitation, sort of a speed limit.

Not that many owners bump into it here. I do. Given my griping here on polyphony, only a handful of owners have direct experience exceeding
polyphony.

Some of the K2 engines are resource hungry. Using 4 of them at once plus
heavy FX in the SEQ, for a multi track song, with orchestration will expose the polyphony problem.

There are some workarounds, but they slow down my work flow.

Bigger picture, keyboardists have mostly sought out more polyphony- which is partly why some own 2 or more keyboards.

I don't believe polyphony limits on the K2 should be deal breaker. Its something to be aware of. You might never experience it.

[Lightbringer]

I haven’t run into issues hitting the polyphony limit yet, at least that I’ve noticed, since the Kronos also seems to manage it pretty well. Then again I haven’t sequenced a full 16 midi tracks yet either.

Would be interesting to how many do actually hit it, and how often it’s a problem.

[vertig0spin]

I can summarize it. The polyphony on the K2 is limitation, sort of a speed limit.

Some of the K2 engines are resource hungry. Using 4 of them at once plus
heavy FX in the SEQ, for a multi track song, with orchestration will expose the polyphony problem.

I don't believe polyphony limits on the K2 should be deal breaker. Its something to be aware of. You might never experience it.

Thanks for the summarization!

[voip]

When the situation arises, the Kronos deals with voice stealing extremely effectively, and hitting the polyphony limits is rarely noticeable. In addition, the user has the ability to prioritise timbres, giving a degree of control to how the algorithm is implemented.

[stevewahl]

If a store that carries both is so far away, have you considered trying to find an individual owner closer to you that would let you try it out locally? Works for either board, may lead to the start of a new friendship!

If you are able to try locally, I envision three possibilities: I suppose you could "fall in love" with whatever you try locally, such that you just know you'll be happy with it, regardless of what the other has to offer. Or, you could find that the way it works or sounds grates on you so much that you rule it out as a contender. The third would be you're still not convinced; in which case, you still should get somewhere that you can try both in the same space eventually, but you'll be better prepared to properly explore the things that matter to you with the limited time you have there.

I'm probably the opposite of you, in that I chose the 61 key on purpose, and am nearly always playing together with someone else playing a real piano, so I use the piano sounds hardly at all.

I haven't seen a whole lot of discussion in this thread on who you are and what you plan to do with it. I imagine that the way you interact with each one, how it feels to you, should probably be the deciding factor at this point. You've written about a whole lot of technical stuff, but in the end, I get the feeling you're looking for something more portable than a grand, that still feels like one when you play it, and in the end you're going to have to feel it yourself to know which one is right.

[leonh]

To summarise in any scenario baring the personal preferences which are very important Kronos is always better than Montage let alone MODX simple as that fell free to disagree in emotional way but technically that is it.


Previous gear Yamaha DX11,Yamaha DX7,Yamaha EX5R, Yamaha QY 700,Yamaha MOXF6,and Yamaha Montage 6 so I don't think.I am biased .

[Devnor]

Montage has some tricks up its sleeve. Computer integration is best of anything else and it can accept an audio input to drive tempo. For a Motif user, they can take their programs and load them into the new board. If you add a laptop suddenly all the limitations over the sequencer, the number of sound engines and midi channels goes away. This is how Montage was intended to be used. It doesn't have to do everything. The Kronos does basically everything but often in a klumsy and difficult way.

[jimknopf]

Despite the well done Computer integration the Montage isn't remotely on a par with the Kronos from my view, because the Kronos has so many other important advantages over the Montage,
- like user sampling beating anything the Montage offers hands down,
then much better overall sound coverage:
- much more sample space due to sample streaming generally (for factory sounds and additional libraries)
dedicated engines for all main purposes:
- the Montage has neither a B3 clone on board
- nor 3 great VA engines with different character
- nor dedicated Piano and EP engines with their special options
- the Kreonos offers better setlist handling
- has a bigger screen for editing
- better masterkeyboard functionality
- and on top of all that both midi and audio recording on board: no additional notebook needed for fast idea recording, or for using backing tracks during a performance, not talking of other small advantages.

As I said, the Montage is a nice (though overpriced) synth. But it is not even a close match compared with the vast sound possibilitues and versatile flexibility of a musical power tool like the Kronos IMO.

[vertig0spin]

If a store that carries both is so far away, have you considered trying to find an individual owner closer to you that would let you try it out locally? Works for either board, may lead to the start of a new friendship!

No, but I will look into that. I don't know where to start really. Halifax & Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada is where I live...on the Atlantic Ocean. I don't know many musicians, but I think the place to start is to go to the main music store in Halifax and ask the people who work there for contacts that may have the Kronos and ones that may have the Montage, or ones that have both would be perfect, but highly unlikely. Although I'd be more interested in someone who has the Kronos at this point if no one has both, because I've tried the Montage8 and I tried the MODX8 (frustrating synth for playing piano!!).

I'm probably the opposite of you, in that I chose the 61 key on purpose, and am nearly always playing together with someone else playing a real piano, so I use the piano sounds hardly at all.

I don't know if we're that different...maybe we are, but I've only ever had 61 key synths. My first was a Korg Polysix and then I added a second one (Roland SH-101). Several years later I sold those two keyboards for the Yamaha DX7II-FD and have had it for nearly 30 years now. So I am well versed in the 61 key synth. If money was no object I would defintely way to have a 61 keys Kronos or Montage or both, as a second or third keyboard! But the reality for me is that money is an object, and I have to buy something that kinda feeds my soul at this point. Before my Polysix, SH101 or DX7, I learned on upright pianos and the odd time had chances to play grand pianos at the local university. I want an 88 key synth that feels and sounds like an acoustic piano, but also does all the synth stuff that I love and enjoy also. The last several years, I have been basically using VST Instrument Plugins in Protools triggered by my DX7. It sounds awesome, but never felt right with the 61 key synth keyboard when playing the awesome grand piano sounds; such as my Synthogy Ivory C7 Grand(favorite by far) and NI's Bechstein & Bosendorfer pianos. Therefore I need an awesome weighted keybed synth now for my new keyboard, so I can get back to my roots of playing piano. Yet still have the synth sounds. I can always use my DX7II to trigger the Kronos or Montage synth sounds via MIDI to get that feel if I need to!

I haven't seen a whole lot of discussion in this thread on who you are and what you plan to do with it. I imagine that the way you interact with each one, how it feels to you, should probably be the deciding factor at this point. You've written about a whole lot of technical stuff, but in the end, I get the feeling you're looking for something more portable than a grand, that still feels like one when you play it, and in the end you're going to have to feel it yourself to know which one is right.

Excellent observation. I didn't realize I wasn't sharing what my plans were, but this is the perfect opportunity.
I want a workstation/synth that I will likely be taxing the Polyphony on! I want 8 of the sequence tracks to be for drums, bass, possibly other instruments (guitar or synths/pianos/organs/pads/etc.), and I want a shite load of polyphony for playing numerous layered sounds, splits, vocoders, solo instruments, etc., from various engines!

Basically, a full 5 or 6 piece band from one keyboard. I even have plans to reserve (for some songs) some higher keys in a split with some awesome voice/choir sounds that will be trigger via vocoder/second headset mic, so that when I sing and hit the harmony notes on the keyboard, I will have all the harmony I need right from the keyboard, while also playing Pianos/strings/layers/etc. with my left hand.

Anyway, that is just some of what I plan to do. And mostly what I described is what I plan for live gigs, but I also have big plans for writing songs/piano pieces/etc., in the studio, as well as recording using the new workstation/synth, into Protools!

[jimknopf]

But you are aware of the limits of two hands playing, while you trigger the looper with one foot, the piano sustain pedal with the other, and open cutoff on your VA synth via your expression pedal with the third foot, not dropping the blues harp in your teeth in the meantime?

[GregC]

Montage has some tricks up its sleeve. Computer integration is best of anything else and it can accept an audio input to drive tempo. For a Motif user, they can take their programs and load them into the new board. If you add a laptop suddenly all the limitations over the sequencer, the number of sound engines and midi channels goes away. This is how Montage was intended to be used. It doesn't have to do everything. The Kronos does basically everything but often in a klumsy and difficult way.

How many independent midi channels and independent midi instruments does Montage send over to a sequencer like Cubase, etc, ?