Genesis Tony Banks sounds on Kronos

[mocando]

Hi,

Do you mean this one by any chance?

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?id=1491

Yup, precisely. Just today I finished sampling the Basoon, Hapsicord, Violin and Muted Trumpet that I was missing on my Tony Banks set. Ready to share if you want. Just PM me.

Are working on Cinema Show? I'm convinced the run in F# was done with the English Horn, not the Harpsichord. The Harpsichord was definitely used in Dancing with the Moonlit Knight though. I'm using some samples from this VST as well...too bad it was abandoned by the developer.

Well, the set list is not ready yet. We might do one of the medleys instead. But just in case, I wanted to have all the Pro Soloist presets Tony ever used all sampled and ready to go.

I also prefer the sound of the Quadra for Cinema Show, Follow You Follow Me, Slippermen and I Know What I like over the Pro Soloist. I just found a Quadra VST for Reaktor, and it has a lot of possibilities. Can't wait to get to my rig this weekend and start modeling all Tony's Quadra's sounds.

[mocando]

Martin,

I'm replicating this sound with the Kronos CX-3 engine, so my settings might not apply. I have 888888044, internal rotary bypassed, and two insert effects: the Boss CE-1 chorus and MXR Phase 100 (both of which are the pedals Tony originally used and both are modeled in the Kronos). After the inserts, I have some hall reverb. I also have some EQ applied to the final result.

Which plugin are you using for organ? I find that I always end up tweaking EQ no matter where I have the drawbars set.

Bill

Bill,

I was watching the Mama Tour video on Youtube last night. It brought a lot of fun memories, since I watched that same video on VHS back in the 80s, when a friend of mine, Genesis lover as well, brought it from the US and it was just released. It was a blast.

Now, since there is a camera over Tony, you can see which keyboard he is playing on which part, and you can clearly see he have the ARP Quadra, resting above the CP-70, then on the left, the huge Prophet and above it the Synclavier. And on the back, it was clearly the monster of the Emulator.

Now, for the Organ parts, I thought he was using the synclavier, and it turns out he uses the Prophet. So I was testing a Prophet VST from Arturia, and there is a preset called Pipe Pipe under Organs. Oh my God. You need to hear it. I'll try to make a video this weekend so you can hear the sound. Is simply amazing. I don't even need to put any reverb on it. It has the exact amount of phasing on it. Is just sublime.

I have the V-Collection 5, I will check it out as soon as I get home. My Genesis trib doesn't play much stuff past 1978, so I wouldn't need anything more than the Kronos.

Then maybe you might want to give the ARP Quadra Reaktor ensemble I was talking about in my last reply a good try.

[BillW]

I use this for Quadra sounds:

http://www.synthmagic.co.uk/quadra.html

[mocando]

I use this for Quadra sounds:

http://www.synthmagic.co.uk/quadra.html

Do you use it with Mainstage?

[mocando]

Martin,

I'm replicating this sound with the Kronos CX-3 engine, so my settings might not apply. I have 888888044, internal rotary bypassed, and two insert effects: the Boss CE-1 chorus and MXR Phase 100 (both of which are the pedals Tony originally used and both are modeled in the Kronos). After the inserts, I have some hall reverb. I also have some EQ applied to the final result.

Which plugin are you using for organ? I find that I always end up tweaking EQ no matter where I have the drawbars set.

Bill

Sorry that I forgot to answer your question. I'm using Mainstage Vintage B3 internal plugin, but I also got Air Music Technology B-33 emulation that came free with my M-Audio Code 61 controller, although I don't like it very much, since you can't disable the cabinet.

I just created a patch with the drawbar you mentioned, and sounds great.

Although, I still believe that the organ sound of the Prophet is very close to the Mama Tour, since Tony didn't brought a Hammond, he relied on synth organs, which is one way to do things. I'm personally not looking to play with the exact sound as the original studio version, but emulate as much as possible the live version we want to represent. I love the I know what I like version in When in Rome, and so the Follow You Follow Me, so if you can help me replicate the same organ sound, I'll be very grateful.

For the leads, I'll use my Quadra VST, which I'm beginning to love very much.

UPDATE: I just added a Pedalboard Audio FX to the patch, threw a Heavenly Chorus and Phaser Tripper pedals on it, and is now almost identical.

Wow!!!

Any more tips to completely nail the organ sound?

[BillW]

I use this for Quadra sounds:

http://www.synthmagic.co.uk/quadra.html

Do you use it with Mainstage?

I use samples from it in the Kronos. I did set up a Genesis Mainstage rig but I'm not very happy with it and it can be cumbersome to work with. Plus I don't have a backup for it.

Between the Kronos SGX-1, EP-1, CX-3 and HD-1 engines, I have been able to either program or sample everything I need...plus I have two of them in case something goes wrong.

As for the 2007 tour, I think Tony has said the organs came from the Korg OASYS CX-3 engine (which is what I'm using). I'll have to go back and listen to the sounds from that tour.

[mocando]

I use this for Quadra sounds:

http://www.synthmagic.co.uk/quadra.html

Do you use it with Mainstage?

I use samples from it in the Kronos. I did set up a Genesis Mainstage rig but I'm not very happy with it and it can be cumbersome to work with. Plus I don't have a backup for it.

Between the Kronos SGX-1, EP-1, CX-3 and HD-1 engines, I have been able to either program or sample everything I need...plus I have two of them in case something goes wrong.

Well, I tried the soft synth route once, on PC, and it wasn't very stable, plagued with latency and freezes and unexpected reboots. But now with Mainstage and the latest Macs, is a real option. I'd love to have a Kronos (or 2 much better), but can't afford them. In fact, I can't even afford the Synthmagic ARP Quadra. I have had big expenses lately, (I have a big family), but I found that I can do with Mainstage what I just dreamed I could do earlier with hardware synths. The sampling capability, how can I assign sustain pedals to mute and unmute patches temporarily, so I can use the same keybed for different sounds, is a work of art. I'm very happy with it, and I have plans to make it grow even bigger. Maybe investing in a couple of Mac Minis, and make it a redundant system.
In fact, there are many touring musicians that rely on Mainstage completely, so if they can do it, I can do too. Eddy Jobson from U.K. and David Rosenthal (Billy Joel) just to name a couple.

[Geoff Flynn]

Well, I tried the soft synth route once, on PC, and it wasn't very stable, plagued with latency and freezes and unexpected reboots. But now with Mainstage and the latest Macs, is a real option. I'd love to have a Kronos (or 2 much better), but can't afford them. In fact, I can't even afford the Synthmagic ARP Quadra. I have had big expenses lately, (I have a big family), but I found that I can do with Mainstage what I just dreamed I could do earlier with hardware synths. The sampling capability, how can I assign sustain pedals to mute and unmute patches temporarily, so I can use the same keybed for different sounds, is a work of art. I'm very happy with it, and I have plans to make it grow even bigger. Maybe investing in a couple of Mac Minis, and make it a redundant system.
In fact, there are many touring musicians that rely on Mainstage completely, so if they can do it, I can do too. Eddy Jobson from U.K. and David Rosenthal (Billy Joel) just to name a couple.

I toured with Oasys, Kronos 2 and MainStage 3 recently. I have to say the MacBook Pro (high spec) let me down twice live having been rock solid for the previous 12 months.

First time I'm not sure why, it just crashed and I had to input my username and wait for samples to restore during a song. The following gig was because the power supply into the MacBook had somehow worked loose (presumably some time during/after sound check) so shut itself down and again I had to input username and let samples restore before MainStage would play.

So now I'm a bit wary and wondering whether to use the Mac set up live again.

But overall I agree about MainStage 3 and software. It's a superb option with great capabilities.

[mocando]

I toured with Oasys, Kronos 2 and MainStage 3 recently. I have to say the MacBook Pro (high spec) let me down twice live having been rock solid for the previous 12 months.

First time I'm not sure why, it just crashed and I had to input my username and wait for samples to restore during a song. The following gig was because the power supply into the MacBook had somehow worked loose (presumably some time during/after sound check) so shut itself down and again I had to input username and let samples restore before MainStage would play.

So now I'm a bit wary and wondering whether to use the Mac set up live again.

But overall I agree about MainStage 3 and software. It's a superb option with great capabilities.

The stories I've read about musicians that use Mainstage live, always uses at least a double system. Eddie Jobson uses 3 MBPs, so triple protection for him. David Rosenthal uses a dual MBP system, on which both computers are continuously producing sound, at the same time, and he can switch from one system to the other with a foot switch. Check these videos on how his system is set up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJfdTgOr8tE&t=8s

They are 5 parts, all worth watching.

In my case, as I said, I'd love to have a Kronos, and do everything I can with Mainstage with just that board, but I can't afford it. And I can't do what I do with budget synths, and even a Krome is more expensive than a couple Mac minis, so from the money standpoint, I think I'll stay with Mainstage. I'll do invest eventually in a Mac mini, just to dedicate it to performance, with a second mac Mini later in the year, as a backup. I'm not getting paid to play, so is just a hobby right now. Once I start making money, I can think on upgrades.

As for stability, there are a few things you can do to avoid problems. Can't say about the power supply that got loose, you have to keep checking that the LED on the MagSafe connector is lit, is the only assurance that you won't run out of juice in the middle of the gig, like it happened to you.
And in regards of the system itself, you should disable notifications and updates. Never connect to the internet, I also try to avoid wifi as much as I can. I'll be soon using an iPad mini connected through the lightning cable, to display the Mac screen using AirDisplay or Duet. I have a bracket that hooks to my keyboard stand, and that way I don't need to have the Mac visible. I can tug it out on a table or someplace safe, so nobody will trip and hit it. I've always worried about that. The only cable running from and to my Mac and my keyboard rig is an USB cable connected to a powered USB hub. From there, everything (power, data and MIDI) runs through USB.

[Schmooster]

Fully agree with what you say. I may be biased towards players like Banks and Rick Wright who are not virtuosos in the way that Wakeman and Emmerson were (and I love their playing as well) as I am (as a very late starter) no child prodigy.

But their is something about the keys in Genesis and Floyd that attracts me more than the technical proficiency seen in ELP and Yes. Hard to say what it is, but if I had to pick a top ten band list, Genesis and Floyd will always be at the top due to the interplay of the musicians. They might not have been the best, but what they did worked better and was possibly more cohesive.

As you say, Banks has a very unique approach.

Hi Derek,
If you listen to Rick Wright's (RIP) solo releases, I personally struggle to find ANY of his keyboard influence at all - like you say he was no virtuoso, in fact his playing style is relatively basic - but what he did have that others lack, is the ability to instinctively know 'when enough is enough', and he was very experimental (as were all of Floyd) - and to be honest I think his 'main' instrument was guitar - I recall reading that he played keys for Floyd "....if there was a piano available..' lol. It's a shame he had such weak vocals in my opinion, I think he had some great ideas but maybe struggled to express them?? Can I say that without getting flamed? We're ALL great keyboardists with great ideas - we just cant get them out of our heads into music as well as a lot of lucky people who are no 'better' but part of something that is - geez I really do talk utter feckin shite.......

[Geoff Flynn]

The stories I've read about musicians that use Mainstage live, always uses at least a double system. Eddie Jobson uses 3 MBPs, so triple protection for him. David Rosenthal uses a dual MBP system, on which both computers are continuously producing sound, at the same time, and he can switch from one system to the other with a foot switch. Check these videos on how his system is set up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJfdTgOr8tE&t=8s

They are 5 parts, all worth watching.

In my case, as I said, I'd love to have a Kronos, and do everything I can with Mainstage with just that board, but I can't afford it. And I can't do what I do with budget synths, and even a Krome is more expensive than a couple Mac minis, so from the money standpoint, I think I'll stay with Mainstage. I'll do invest eventually in a Mac mini, just to dedicate it to performance, with a second mac Mini later in the year, as a backup. I'm not getting paid to play, so is just a hobby right now. Once I start making money, I can think on upgrades.

As for stability, there are a few things you can do to avoid problems. Can't say about the power supply that got loose, you have to keep checking that the LED on the MagSafe connector is lit, is the only assurance that you won't run out of juice in the middle of the gig, like it happened to you.
And in regards of the system itself, you should disable notifications and updates. Never connect to the internet, I also try to avoid wifi as much as I can. I'll be soon using an iPad mini connected through the lightning cable, to display the Mac screen using AirDisplay or Duet. I have a bracket that hooks to my keyboard stand, and that way I don't need to have the Mac visible. I can tug it out on a table or someplace safe, so nobody will trip and hit it. I've always worried about that. The only cable running from and to my Mac and my keyboard rig is an USB cable connected to a powered USB hub. From there, everything (power, data and MIDI) runs through USB.

To be fair I've always been pretty careful. The only time the MBP has ever been connected to the internet is to download music software. It doesn't even have email capability on it. Only MainStage 3 and a few soft synths are ever running on my MBP. The power cord caught me by surprise. Schoolboy error. Never happened before and would never happen again.

Not sure about doubling or tripling up on MBP. Sounds like an expensive way to add a few extra sounds to my set list. My current thinking is to ditch MBP entirely for live use and just buy another Kronos.....would look great and and much easier to set up.

But as I said I love Mainstage 3 with some choice soft synths. Tend to use that more than anything when messing about at home.

[mocando]

To be fair I've always been pretty careful. The only time the MBP has ever been connected to the internet is to download music software. It doesn't even have email capability on it. Only MainStage 3 and a few soft synths are ever running on my MBP. The power cord caught me by surprise. Schoolboy error. Never happened before and would never happen again.

Not sure about doubling or tripling up on MBP. Sounds like an expensive way to add a few extra sounds to my set list. My current thinking is to ditch MBP entirely for live use and just buy another Kronos.....would look great and and much easier to set up.

But as I said I love Mainstage 3 with some choice soft synths. Tend to use that more than anything when messing about at home.

Agree, the Kronos is both practical and simpler. Although expensive, I'm afraid.

My plan is to add a couple mac minis to the setup, and also ditch the MBP for live use, since is my main work and home computer, so don't really want to keep using it for music. Although it can be a backup any day.

2011 Mac minis are around 350$ each, used of course, but all I care is the processor. Memory and SSD drives are cheap, so for around 400$, I can have a very compact and streamlined system, and just adding another 400$, I can have redundancy, for around the same price of a new Krome. And as I mentioned, the functionality I cat get, is no match for anything but a Kronos.

[mocando]

I use samples from it in the Kronos. I did set up a Genesis Mainstage rig but I'm not very happy with it and it can be cumbersome to work with. Plus I don't have a backup for it.

Between the Kronos SGX-1, EP-1, CX-3 and HD-1 engines, I have been able to either program or sample everything I need...plus I have two of them in case something goes wrong.

As for the 2007 tour, I think Tony has said the organs came from the Korg OASYS CX-3 engine (which is what I'm using). I'll have to go back and listen to the sounds from that tour.

Hey Bill. Another question: In Second Home By The Sea, when Tony finishes the solo, there comes a short guitar solo accompanied by some brassy and stringy sounding chords from Tony, before the arpeggios and Phil starts to sing again. I can see on the 1986 tour videos that he is using the Prophet for that. I wonder, what have you used in that part?

[BillW]

I use samples from it in the Kronos. I did set up a Genesis Mainstage rig but I'm not very happy with it and it can be cumbersome to work with. Plus I don't have a backup for it.

Between the Kronos SGX-1, EP-1, CX-3 and HD-1 engines, I have been able to either program or sample everything I need...plus I have two of them in case something goes wrong.

As for the 2007 tour, I think Tony has said the organs came from the Korg OASYS CX-3 engine (which is what I'm using). I'll have to go back and listen to the sounds from that tour.

Hey Bill. Another question: In Second Home By The Sea, when Tony finishes the solo, there comes a short guitar solo accompanied by some brassy and stringy sounding chords from Tony, before the arpeggios and Phil starts to sing again. I can see on the 1986 tour videos that he is using the Prophet for that. I wonder, what have you used in that part?

We haven't played that one in a couple of years. I'll have to boot up my Kronos to see what those sounds are...probably some brassy synth thing for the LH chords. However, there's a descending run in the RH using a Synclavier sound that plays Bb/Ab/Gb/E repeatedly. I use real Synclavier samples for that part as the sound is very distinct. If you have the Arturia V-Collection (with the Synclavier V), I can tell you where to get the right patches for it.

[mocando]

We haven't played that one in a couple of years. I'll have to boot up my Kronos to see what those sounds are...probably some brassy synth thing for the LH chords. However, there's a descending run in the RH using a Synclavier sound that plays Bb/Ab/Gb/E repeatedly. I use real Synclavier samples for that part as the sound is very distinct. If you have the Arturia V-Collection (with the Synclavier V), I can tell you where to get the right patches for it.

Yup, I'm using the Synclavier V. I downloaded most of the patches for Home By The Sea from the Arturia forum, someone replicated them very closely to the originals, but I'm missing that repeating descending sound. Is funny, since I just realized about it last night when I was watching Tony play live in 86 and 92.