Roland= no the rack is not dead! integra 7

[sani]

(do you have a roland synth you are speaking about?,do you use and play live and studio with a roland last generation synth to feel good and bad points about it?)

Sure. Do you really think that I'm so stupid to offend a company without using their products???
The Fantom G and the JP80 are my current instruments from Roland. A couple more from them I used in the past. And yes, I also used a lot of Korg instruments and from Yamaha. Even some Kurzweils.
So, I have pretty much big base on which I can compare.

Don't be so arrogant and pretentious...we have so many things to learn and share,stop looking yourself like a synth god in your mirror and come back man.
You're only a simple user in a forum,like me..

Excuse me, one post ago you were talking about people who don't understand the Roland philosophy and suddenly you are asking me to come back from my god status and other "make love not war" bulls.it?
Sorry, I'm not a simple user. I'm neither a god, but I won't be moderate here and modest just to play well with somebody else.
I'm using my keyboards very extensively and I consider myself as able to objectively judge what the company did good and what they did wrong.

I'm not a roland enginner,but i think you must create your synth company to prove to roland how you are more intelligent than roland enginner.

Don't take it personally, but that is simply stupid. I don't need to produce a keyboard to be able to judge one. Steve Jobs was not a programmer. Neither an engineer. Well, you know the rest.
And you don't need to produce a movie to be able to judge a movie to like or dislike it.

Well,i absolutly consider your point of view about what you hate with roland even if we can disagree...why not.
But i absolutly don't care about your arrogant child lessons about how to use and learn a roland instrument,and i'm often playing with great musicians wich i have so many things to learn..
I don't need you for that

I have no idea what you are talking about. I never hold any lessons to anybody. I was complainig about Roland and some which are obviously implemented by brain dead engineers. People who don't have the slighest clue what is going on on stage or what people do with their keyboards.

What do you have to disagree with me if I always argument those negative points?
Let's take one example where I call the Roland engineers brain dead:

They don't have a multisample format. Every multisample you create in one of their workstation is not portable to a newer one.
You spend days, weeks, months on your own sounds and samples on a - let's say - fantom s, and after years you want/have to move onto a newer one, you choose fantom x and you can't port your samples over because there is no data format! And guess what, if you recreate all your work from scratch, and you buy a fantom g, it is the same. You'll have to do it for the third time!!!
Do you get it or not? What do you have to disagree with me here?
Sorry, I know that I sound very arrogant here, but I hate it when people with obviously no experience try to defend something they don't use. And then you are teaching others about Roland philosophy. You know what their philosophy is? So, please, explain to me why didn't they create a sample file format so that their fellow users could transfer their multisamples across different keyboard models, or exchange them with their friends, or buy/produce/sell their own sample packs.
Just try to explain what is the philosophy behind that, and I'll gladly make an apology on every forum where I participate.

Maybe another example, since you are a jp80 user just like me.
What to say about the way how you select the registrations?
What is the point in having next/previous buttons to jump across 8 (1) registration sets? Why do I have to press a button eight times before I get into the desired registration set? And then again 8 new presses to come back to the first one? Have you ever tried that while playing live on stage? Maybe in a band where one song follows immediately after the other one, but your registrations are not saved consecutively?

Compare that to korg, kurzweil, yamaha. They all have a multisample file format, some of them for more than 20 years. And they all without any exception need less button presses to select their sounds.

So, let's bring it to an end:
When I complain, I complain based on my very intensive experience with the instrument. And I back up my complain with more then one example or argument. I'm not teaching. Use your keyboard in the way you like. But don't call me arrogant because I think that Roland engineers are brain dead in implementing some of very important features.

Oh,another thing:
I d'like to know what is your best(general purpose)expander actually on the market other than this integra 7?
What is better and most powerful?(even if it's not a perfect product if you want i'm ok)
Ha yes...your computer?

(You remind me on some user here who are now jp80 users and bash this forum and the kronos all their day long on the almost dead roland clan forum)

Let's get at least a little bit serious here.
So, there is no other general purpose expander actually on market and because of that the integra is excused from being criticized????

Before you accuse me of teaching again,
I'm expressing my own opinion here.

Good way:

Korg released the Triton with two expansion slots in 2000. Soon afterwards, they released expansion boards for the triton. I'm not sure, but there were about seven titles.
In 2004 Korg released their last Triton, called Triton Extreme and it had ALL expansions available immediately to the user without the need to load something into some virtual slots. So, Korg was able to give the user all those expansions at once. Korg even quadrupled the available user memory from some 512 programs/combinations to almost 2000 in that Extreme. All user rewritable.

Bad way:
Roland released the XV5080 in 2000. They created some srx expansions before 2000 and especially those sr-jv expansions which sounds are transferred to some srx titles.
Twelve years later they are about to release an expander with the same number of slots, forcing you to choose 4 expansions from about twenty? WTF???

A comparison on the computer side. I'll give you the standard cheapest Apple imac model from 2000 and from 2012:

2000: iMac with a 1.6 single core G5 processor, 256 Mb Ram (expandable to 2Gb), 160 Gb HD

2012: iMac with 2.5 quad core Intel processor, 4000 Mb Ram (expandable to 16000 Mb), 500 Gb


Do you get the math?

[davids]

@sani

I doubt it's the engineers who are making these decisions, as they likely just get shuffled from project to project and don't have any influence. More likely the beancounters.

But again, further to my earlier post, whenever you're building a product, you have to manage costs, risks, and schedule.

If you want to design and manufacture a synth module in Japan, where the yen is up 40% against the USD and by 66% against the Euro in the last 5 years somehow meet a $2,000 USD price point, you are going to have to compromise on something.

Here it looks like Roland compromised on the memory architecture, likely by re-using the memory architecture from an earlier product, rather than designing a new one.

[kanout]

sani wrote:

Once you learn your Roland instrument and how it functions, come back and I'll gladly explain you again (even if I already did with more than one example) where Roland keyboards fail miserably in the most basic functions.
.

Well, I'm one who call Roland engineers occasionally as being brain dead. You are either a roland engineer or a big fanboy and take it personally, or you don't have any experience with roland instruments.

I was complainig about Roland and some which are obviously implemented by brain dead engineers. People who don't have the slighest clue what is going on on stage or what people do with their keyboards.

If you think it's a kind way to share with people who have a different point of view,i have a diverse feeling.

The Fantom G and the JP80 are my current instruments from Roland. A couple more from them I used in the past. And yes, I also used a lot of Korg instruments and from Yamaha. Even some Kurzweils.
So, I have pretty much big base on which I can compare.

Well...to be honest i have a problem to understand why you own(with your fantom G and jupiter 80) 2 of the last big high class level synth from roland no-brain enginners..

Maybe you have in your collection ten of the last big synths from the market even if you don't like them?

That's the point where we are different:
I have 3 pro synth for diverse use and situations(tyros 4,jupiter 80 and nord stage 2)and my little brain can't assume more.
Congrats sani

What do you have to disagree with me if I always argument those negative points?
Let's take one example where I call the Roland engineers brain dead:

They don't have a multisample format. Every multisample you create in one of their workstation is not portable to a newer one.

I totally agree with these argument my friend...
Motifs and kronos are better for that.

Maybe it's because roland philosophy absolutly don't care about sampling...(see the jupiter 80 and 50,and the integra 7)

I personaly can't explain this choice,it's like that.
But speaking about no-brain enginners is too much i think.

Maybe another example, since you are a jp80 user just like me.
What to say about the way how you select the registrations?
What is the point in having next/previous buttons to jump across 8 (1) registration sets? Why do I have to press a button eight times before I get into the desired registration set? And then again 8 new presses to come back to the first one? Have you ever tried that while playing live on stage? Maybe in a band where one song follows immediately after the other one, but your registrations are not saved consecutively?

As a jupiter user like me,why do you want to press the button 8 times to tell me that?
I personnaly don't care about that.
Do you want to access to the opposite(8 times push button)in live situation?
If you think about this way to do,maybe it's too much brain man

No,seriously..it was a joke isn't it?

The jupiter 80 provide 8 banks of 32(directly pushable with real buttons A,B,C.D and 1 to 8.

You can chain live 32 quick and ergonomic recalls for 8 songs...or if you divide 32 songs with 8 ergonomic recalls(with real buttons or tactical screen,you have the choice.)

Is it no-brain ergonomy?
Do you playing live recalling instantly the preset 219 after being on the preset 37 in 2 seconds?

So funny sani.
Do you think serious live players don't organize their user preset memory for serious live music?

Imagine chick correa on a motif live"oh,i'm on this bank A,where is the lead i want..on bank C?oh no....G,oh excuse me i have to stop my music to find my sound sorry.."

Well,i honestly don't think you have good arguments here..

I personnaly often play live,and i have special config for that,all well organized..7 of the 8 registrations banks for the set list,and 1 registration bank of 32 general purpose sounds(my best of) for improvise..
And a usb key and in some seconds,youp..another set is loaded.
Just an exemple..everybody can find ideas..

If you have a better solution,tell me i'm interested!
This problem is the same with all the keyboards:
You have to use your brain(you love that no?) to analyse the keyboard config architecture you use,and take the best for you.

That's far better than looking for some problems every serious live player don't care.

I'm really happy with a jupiter 80 config live,even with a motif(i played live with so many times)and even with korg(i did it so many times too..)
None of these keyboards is bad to configure live i think.

And if you think that,what about:
-an acoustic piano?(only one preset arghhhh)
-a original minimoog?(no recall)

Or maybe you are in the net forum world with some people sometimes who explain they have 30 years experience in high class level live music(with a 80's 32 presets synth with ancestral ergonomy 20 years ago for example)and they are finding(a 32 direct access 8 times,256 total registrations )jupiter 80 selection mode bad because they need 50367 registrations in direct acces live?
(or they are playing the preset 8549,and they need to play the preset 72348 in 2 seconds?)
(arghh this jupiter is a piece of crap..no 459235 recalls..)
Or maybe you nedd 459 minimoog on the same time on stage?

Well it's sooooo sooooo funny!
So,tell me how you played live in the 80's(or in the 70's if you did it..)


To speak about the integra 7:
I disagree about your point of view for 4 slots srx limitations.
You have 12 srx,but a 4 srx slot limitation per project.
I totally understand if you think it's a limitation,but it's not the same than having only 4 srx in the box..
(and we don't speak about all the supernatural sounds you doesn't mention side by side of the 4 srx slots..)

Ok,nothing is perfect sani,but i think you are excessive.
I seems to me you are looking for bad things to say with this expander..maybe i'm wrong but that's what i feel.
The integra 7 is a good product with so many things to offer,the first problem is the future price...we'll see.

Oh last thing:
I apreciate your computer comparaison about memory differences between hardware and software.
But you know i can think everyday about that because i'm doing some multimedia pieces of music with an octoprocessor macpro,16 gig ram,and 4 hard disk inside.
So i can compare myself the difference,but you know what?
I have no problem with these difference when i'm using hardware..
I don't say i'm in the truth..it's like that.
But i can consider here again your point of view..why not!

But thanks again,like you said i get the math.

[KONNECTORAS]

Guys, come on!!!

The price is just, GREAT!!!!!!

[SanderXpander]

I would much rather have all 12 SRX, with 4 available at all times, than 4 SRX in total that I had to buy separately. I don't disagree that it would have been a good and relatively simple improvement to have had more slots. But when you offer people more stuff and they can't get to it all at the same time, you always get complaints. The Kronos offers a bigger sample base and memory (with disk streaming) than any synth previously on the market, yet some of the first comments were about having too little RAM to load all the included sounds, and even too few memory locations for all the programs (14x128 not being enough). They upped the RAM to 3GB and added 7x128 program banks and still people were complaining there was not enough, why not 4GB, 7 more banks, etc..
This is simply the nature of the user.

That said, I'm happy that Korg at least seems to really try to incorporate feasible user requests. I can't really argue the same for Roland.

[kanout]

True,we always want more...and we'll never be happy.
I'ts like a race.

Remember 20 years ago people were so happy with a 128 GM voices sound canvas...
Now in a integra 7(wich is soon the only one like that in the market!thousands of sounds and not as much..)

About user request,i agree with you about the kronos evolutions(wich i found in the 2.0 very good like streaming)but i'm so sad to loose reliability(wich is the first thing for me)with korg product
(i don't want to initiate a new war,it's the experience i had with a kronos and 2 sv1 so it's a fact for me!)

If you think about some high class expander user request from some people,roland did it.
I think it's a good thing.
The supernatural generation evolve..

There are different periods where different manufacturers are on top for technical innovation.
We'll see,maybe in 6 years it will be the opposite betwen korg,roland or yamaha.

And don't forget yamaha is able to produce a very big high class synth,build like a tank with a very fat sound.
They can do it.
So we'll see the next.

[jimknopf]

Kanout,

concerning the Integra7, I was originally thinking of a positive thing, as you can read above. Then I read a completely misleading Roland(!) description, giving the impression that all Integra sound banks share 4 slots - which would have been an utterly idiotic concept.

After seeing the Inegra diagram, it seems to be something in between: neither really smart nor altogether idiotic. a level of halfbaked which may be tolerable for some at that price, getting lots of nice sound choices, though with very limited layering chances due to limited polyphony. Everybody can judge that for themselves and decide to buy or not to buy.

Roland has been my main gear up to the Fantom X and Fantom G, including the fine, but also badly supported A70 masterkeyboard, and I still own my old Juno G. The fundamental difference I see between Roland and Korg after these years of use - much like Sani - is
a) the ability to listen to your users and prove to react positively in a substantial way. Nobody is perfect, but Roland Japan is the most autistic, uncommunicative company in the whole keyboard/synth business from my view, while other companies DO communicate more and better and react in a way showing results which users can grasp.
b) the ability to develop concepts which are brought to a certain degree of maturity and consequence - as opposed to delivering halfbaked products with lots of inconsistent features, and then leaving them for new products, without having delivered convincing updates for the previous ones.

I don't have the time - and don't want to invest it after hours and hours of futile discussing of Roland gear issues - to provide a point by point list of such differences, as I experienced them - but I DID and I DO experience BIG differences between Roland and Korg - with most of the positive experiences on the Korg side. I'm a happy Kronos user since a year now, using a very mature OS and incredible sound possibilities including engines for different purposes, a rich controller field, extremely comfortable sampling on high quality streaming level, and elementary sequencing of midi and audio.

Roland has to do a lot to even come close to this kind of gear experience, despite super-natural and other nice sounds.
The one thing Korg has to get done is a higher standard of hardware quality management. I would never deny that, after all I hear, though I have no problems at all with an early (serial No. 72) Kronos 73.

I'm just on vacation and have nothing with me than the Kronos. I am neither missing sounds nor recording possibilities, and while playing and recording I miss nothing like the Integra - or any other synth or module. For a Kronos user, they are no necessity at all - just nice possible additions.

[kanout]

Jimknopf:
I totally understand and consider your point of view.

The problem is only what we personaly feel and personaly need.
We evolve in diverses orientations.

When i had my kronos,i realized(for exemple)everything i could do with it,i could better and more efficient with my computer.
(i've recorded with high class korg digital studio D32X in the past,i loved it but when i tried to record audio in the kronos it was the big delusion for me as a big korg digital studio user..just a negative exemple i can find)

I found some other negative points,but i don't think korg engineers ar no-brain for 2 reasons:
-the kronos has so much to offer and i consider this
-it's my personal feeling and i can share with opposite opinions(i am not the reference)

About roland support,i know the fantom G had some problems(for exemple)...roland did nothing more.
Yes if you are looking for some problems,you can find it.
But look another exemple:
Korg PA3X users experiment serious shame problems with the os...more important than some roland problems.
Is Korg a bad company for that?
I don't think so.

Well we can write thousand of pages about that,i agree we can share so many exemple with diverses manufacturer.
For what?
Musicians are making different choices.
There are some truth:
Korg has the most powerful synth on the market(and success)but on the other side reliability is less than roland and yam.
Etc Etc
People can find the integra 7 bad,ok it's not important,just gear.

But you are intelligent and you already know the integra 7 will be intersesting for many musicians who are looking for a big expander.

But i don't think we have to be excessive to try to find little problems to explain some manufacturer engineers don't have brain,etc etc..
I personnaly don't have problems with roland products and philosophy actually,i don't think i'm stupid.
All is ok with my jupiter 80,like you feel with your kronos.
You find what you need,i did the salme with a different synth etc etc..

[sani]

Well...to be honest i have a problem to understand why you own(with your fantom G and jupiter 80) 2 of the last big high class level synth from roland no-brain enginners..

You know, that's especially funny. People ask you whether you own a synth XYZ or not. Once you tell them that you own it and you know what you are talking about, they start asking why you own it if you don't like it.
Well, I like how the Roland sounds. That's an important part. I highly dislike how those braindead engineers implement quite a lot of features. And I'm not alone. You may say whatever you want, the JP80 is lightyears away from being a bestseller. Take a look at RolandClan. An almost empty space with the same 10 guys and some newbies. No comparison to korg forums or motifator.

As a jupiter user like me,why do you want to press the button 8 times to tell me that?
I personnaly don't care about that.
Do you want to access to the opposite(8 times push button)in live situation?
If you think about this way to do,maybe it's too much brain man

Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about. You have song A on Set 1/Bank A/Number 7. Your next song is song X on Set 8/Bank C/Number 5.
How many times do you have to press the "NEXT" button until you get to Set 8 from Set 1. They are even so stupid to not allow you to jump from Set 8 to Set 1 by just pressing "NEXT". You have to press "Previous" seven times instead. I'm so often in a situation where I don't know what the next song will be until the singer tells me. And he/she requires that the next song starts immediately after the previous one. And I have to push buttons ten times to get from A to B. That's brain dead in it's highest form.

No,seriously..it was a joke isn't it?

Once again:
how many presses does it take on a Korg, Kurzweil, Yamaha, to jump from one bank to another? If you ask me: ONE.

The jupiter 80 provide 8 banks of 32(directly pushable with real buttons A,B,C.D and 1 to 8.

You can chain live 32 quick and ergonomic recalls for 8 songs...or if you divide 32 songs with 8 ergonomic recalls(with real buttons or tactical screen,you have the choice.)

And once again:
you either get it or you don't. The question is simply how many button presses I have to take to come from A to B. Roland is the worst here because it can take even 10 presses until you get to your desired location. What do you not understand about that?
Besides that, it's an ergonomic disaster to put the buttons bellow the keyboard. When I play, I don't see the buttons, they are covered by my hand. It's a product from a laboratory engineer with zero stage experience.

Is it no-brain ergonomy?
Do you playing live recalling instantly the preset 219 after being on the preset 37 in 2 seconds?

On Korg or Kurzweil you have a numeric keypad. What's the problem in pressing 3 and 7 followed by "Enter"????
Please explain? The most simple and effective way. Even on the Fantom G I was able to dial in directly a number while playing the previous song. On the last chord, while holding it, I press the Enter button and the knew sound is selected. I can immediately continue to play the next song. On the JP80 my hands cover the buttons. I have to take my hands away to see those buttons bellow the keyboard.

So funny sani.
Do you think serious live players don't organize their user preset memory for serious live music?

Imagine chick correa on a motif live"oh,i'm on this bank A,where is the lead i want..on bank C?oh no....G,oh excuse me i have to stop my music to find my sound sorry.."

Well,i honestly don't think you have good arguments here..

Excuse me, you don't know what you are talking about because you can't imagine that other people may work in a different way than you.
First, why do you think that one registration/combination/setup/performance relates to ONE song???
I often have more than one registration for one song. I often program one registration for the chorus of the song, another one for the verse, maybe another one for the solo or the bridge or the coda and so on. Verdict: one song often has more than one registration. So, a concert where we play 30 songs relates to some 150-200 registrations on my keyboard. I call the first one, and then I press my foot switch to select the next one needed for that song. And 150-200 registrations means that I use not one Registration set with 32 memory locations, but far, far more.
Organizing?
There is nothing to organize. I program new songs as we learn/rehearse new songs. But list of songs as I program them in my keyboard is not the setlist when we play live. So, I often have to jump from one memory location to another in a completely different registration set.

I personnaly often play live,and i have special config for that,all well organized..7 of the 8 registrations banks for the set list,and 1 registration bank of 32 general purpose sounds(my best of) for improvise..

Fine for you. That's you. I use between 150 and 200 registrations. Let's forget for a moment that Roland is the only company which has a problem with memory locations. 256 registrations they offer. That's on par with a Korg 01/W from 1991. And I even understand that. Because Roland uses a brain dead stupid way to select registrations on the jp80, having for example 512 registrations would require to press the NEXT button 16 times (!!!) to get from one reg. set to the last one. That happens when brain dead people try to reinvent the wheel. Just use the numeric keypad or find a better, not worse way.

And a usb key and in some seconds,youp..another set is loaded.
Just an exemple..everybody can find ideas..

Excuse me, can you name one professional keyboard player who has to load sets in the middle of the show??? What's the name of the looser or the shitty keyboard he uses? If I have to reload something in the middle of the show, I'd rather use a keyboard without those needs or learn a new instrument.

If you have a better solution,tell me i'm interested!
This problem is the same with all the keyboards:
You have to use your brain(you love that no?) to analyse the keyboard config architecture you use,and take the best for you.

Of course I have. Take Kurzweil as an example. Over 2000 user rewritable memory locations, all accessible by the numeric pad. You press 1, 2 or 3 numbers, followed by Enter. You are on number 23. You need 57. Press 5 and 7, followed by Enter. That's it. Roland used that on the XP keyboards, Roland had dedicated buttons for the bank and the numbers for the whole D series and even on the Fantom G they had the numeric pad. f*ck*ng easy and f*ck*ng logical. And on the JP80 they come whit this brain dead idiotic thing. On the JP50 it's even worse. There is no next/previous button. You use the left/right cursor buttons to change the registration sets. So, after stupid, there is even more stupid.

That's far better than looking for some problems every serious live player don't care.

No. You don't know what the live player cares about. Because you can't imagine that somebody uses an instrument completely different than you.

I'm really happy with a jupiter 80 config live,even with a motif(i played live with so many times)and even with korg(i did it so many times too..)
None of these keyboards is bad to configure live i think.

Korg has a consequent way how to access patches. You press a bank button if you need to change the bank and you press a number followed by enter. That's almost the same since M1. Why? Because it simply works. Roland instead tries always some stupid things which turned to be bad. Excuse me, but I have to take my hands completely off from the keyboard to access the buttons. That's stupid. On the Fantom G there is even a favorite mode where you need two hands to change a patch because one hand needs to press and hold a shift button while the other one presses an other button.
Do you know any other professional keyboard where you need two hands to change a patch?
Jesus, how many arguments more do you need?

[/quote]

[sani]

Well...to be honest i have a problem to understand why you own(with your fantom G and jupiter 80) 2 of the last big high class level synth from roland no-brain enginners..

You know, that's especially funny. People ask you whether you own a synth XYZ or not. Once you tell them that you own it and you know what you are talking about, they start asking why you own it if you don't like it.
Well, I like how the Roland sounds. That's an important part. I highly dislike how those braindead engineers implement quite a lot of features. And I'm not alone. You may say whatever you want, the JP80 is lightyears away from being a bestseller. Take a look at RolandClan. An almost empty space with the same 10 guys and some newbies. No comparison to korg forums or motifator.

As a jupiter user like me,why do you want to press the button 8 times to tell me that?
I personnaly don't care about that.
Do you want to access to the opposite(8 times push button)in live situation?
If you think about this way to do,maybe it's too much brain man

Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about. You have song A on Set 1/Bank A/Number 7. Your next song is song X on Set 8/Bank C/Number 5.
How many times do you have to press the "NEXT" button until you get to Set 8 from Set 1. They are even so stupid to not allow you to jump from Set 8 to Set 1 by just pressing "NEXT". You have to press "Previous" seven times instead. I'm so often in a situation where I don't know what the next song will be until the singer tells me. And he/she requires that the next song starts immediately after the previous one. And I have to push buttons ten times to get from A to B. That's brain dead in it's highest form.

No,seriously..it was a joke isn't it?

Once again:
how many presses does it take on a Korg, Kurzweil, Yamaha, to jump from one bank to another? If you ask me: ONE.

The jupiter 80 provide 8 banks of 32(directly pushable with real buttons A,B,C.D and 1 to 8.

You can chain live 32 quick and ergonomic recalls for 8 songs...or if you divide 32 songs with 8 ergonomic recalls(with real buttons or tactical screen,you have the choice.)

And once again:
you either get it or you don't. The question is simply how many button presses I have to take to come from A to B. Roland is the worst here because it can take even 10 presses until you get to your desired location. What do you not understand about that?
Besides that, it's an ergonomic disaster to put the buttons bellow the keyboard. When I play, I don't see the buttons, they are covered by my hand. It's a product from a laboratory engineer with zero stage experience.

Is it no-brain ergonomy?
Do you playing live recalling instantly the preset 219 after being on the preset 37 in 2 seconds?

On Korg or Kurzweil you have a numeric keypad. What's the problem in pressing 3 and 7 followed by "Enter"????
Please explain? The most simple and effective way. Even on the Fantom G I was able to dial in directly a number while playing the previous song. On the last chord, while holding it, I press the Enter button and the knew sound is selected. I can immediately continue to play the next song. On the JP80 my hands cover the buttons. I have to take my hands away to see those buttons bellow the keyboard.

So funny sani.
Do you think serious live players don't organize their user preset memory for serious live music?

Imagine chick correa on a motif live"oh,i'm on this bank A,where is the lead i want..on bank C?oh no....G,oh excuse me i have to stop my music to find my sound sorry.."

Well,i honestly don't think you have good arguments here..

Excuse me, you don't know what you are talking about because you can't imagine that other people may work in a different way than you.
First, why do you think that one registration/combination/setup/performance relates to ONE song???
I often have more than one registration for one song. I often program one registration for the chorus of the song, another one for the verse, maybe another one for the solo or the bridge or the coda and so on. Verdict: one song often has more than one registration. So, a concert where we play 30 songs relates to some 150-200 registrations on my keyboard. I call the first one, and then I press my foot switch to select the next one needed for that song. And 150-200 registrations means that I use not one Registration set with 32 memory locations, but far, far more.
Organizing?
There is nothing to organize. I program new songs as we learn/rehearse new songs. But list of songs as I program them in my keyboard is not the setlist when we play live. So, I often have to jump from one memory location to another in a completely different registration set.

I personnaly often play live,and i have special config for that,all well organized..7 of the 8 registrations banks for the set list,and 1 registration bank of 32 general purpose sounds(my best of) for improvise..

Fine for you. That's you. I use between 150 and 200 registrations. Let's forget for a moment that Roland is the only company which has a problem with memory locations. 256 registrations they offer. That's on par with a Korg 01/W from 1991. And I even understand that. Because Roland uses a brain dead stupid way to select registrations on the jp80, having for example 512 registrations would require to press the NEXT button 16 times (!!!) to get from one reg. set to the last one. That happens when brain dead people try to reinvent the wheel. Just use the numeric keypad or find a better, not worse way.

And a usb key and in some seconds,youp..another set is loaded.
Just an exemple..everybody can find ideas..

Excuse me, can you name one professional keyboard player who has to load sets in the middle of the show??? What's the name of the looser or the shitty keyboard he uses? If I have to reload something in the middle of the show, I'd rather use a keyboard without those needs or learn a new instrument.

If you have a better solution,tell me i'm interested!
This problem is the same with all the keyboards:
You have to use your brain(you love that no?) to analyse the keyboard config architecture you use,and take the best for you.

Of course I have. Take Kurzweil as an example. Over 2000 user rewritable memory locations, all accessible by the numeric pad. You press 1, 2 or 3 numbers, followed by Enter. You are on number 23. You need 57. Press 5 and 7, followed by Enter. That's it. Roland used that on the XP keyboards, Roland had dedicated buttons for the bank and the numbers for the whole D series and even on the Fantom G they had the numeric pad. f*ck*ng easy and f*ck*ng logical. And on the JP80 they come whit this brain dead idiotic thing. On the JP50 it's even worse. There is no next/previous button. You use the left/right cursor buttons to change the registration sets. So, after stupid, there is even more stupid.

That's far better than looking for some problems every serious live player don't care.

No. You don't know what the live player cares about. Because you can't imagine that somebody uses an instrument completely different than you.

I'm really happy with a jupiter 80 config live,even with a motif(i played live with so many times)and even with korg(i did it so many times too..)
None of these keyboards is bad to configure live i think.

Korg has a consequent way how to access patches. You press a bank button if you need to change the bank and you press a number followed by enter. That's almost the same since M1. Why? Because it simply works. Roland instead tries always some stupid things which turned to be bad. Excuse me, but I have to take my hands completely off from the keyboard to access the buttons. That's stupid. On the Fantom G there is even a favorite mode where you need two hands to change a patch because one hand needs to press and hold a shift button while the other one presses an other button.
Do you know any other professional keyboard where you need two hands to change a patch?
Jesus, how many arguments more do you need?

[/quote]

[Pepperpotty]

Kanout and Sani,

This is me officially banging your heads together! I don't wan't to hear you arguing any more. You've already taken up enough of this thread as it is.

[kanout]

Sani:
Don't prove a nord stage 2 for live music.(i've got one)
This is one of the most sold live machine in the keyboard world and not better for selecting sounds than the jupiter 80.

Pepperpotty:
Ok,i understood i can write thousand of pages for nothing about that with sani and it's not the place i agree.

Sorry for that i will stop now.

[Kahnn]

My observation:
(-) No sampling.
(-) Only 4 virtual slots emty -which are to be filled from either SuperNATURAL sound sets or the 12 SRX'es. Unfortunately, the statement '+6000 patches' include, say, those 8 unused SRX boards.
(-) What about ARX boards!? If intended to sell them seperate, why no ARX slots???
(+) 'Behavior Modeling' -which means AP Synthesis. Voila!
(-) Price.
(-) Since each of the 16 parts can have its own MFX and EQ, why only one midi-in? There should be at least 2, preferably 4.
(+) Motional Surround.
(-) Insufficient or no user bank(s). But you can overwrite the existing patches / performances -which seems lame to me.

[jimknopf]

Same disillusioning result here after re-checking the Integra-7 facts.

I have to add one more minus to the addition:
[-] no comparable support by a good user forum bursting with activity, skillful users and free gifts from them (Kronos forum: free user librarian, user tutorials, user sounds, etc.). In the Roland clan you better should not have too many critical questions or even dare to question some funny Roland synth design.

While checking the Integra-7 facts, I had the first look since quite a while at the Roland Clan. I already knew from my last visit some months ago, that the Clan in the JP80 board had turned into a dead zone with a dozen or so active (or rather less active) users. Their own explanation for the minimum exchange is that pressing some keys on their JP80s is working like a charm, and therefore no further talking necessary.

It looks like they got nice greetings recently, from the only Roland official looking for them about once a year. His message was, that his status at Roland changed, and he now wanted to show up more active (he said the same in his other position, when I still was there as Fantom G owner - and soon off he was, after leaving some unqualified comment about the toy quality of other companies' products and slandering critical users as agents from other companies). Nothing from him since then, but it might well be that he will chime in twice a year instead of once in the future, and that will certainly stir things up a lot towards the positive.

While all this looked as charming as some months ago, what I saw now, was even worse: one critical thread from a technically skillful user about the incredibly lousy masterkeyboard functionality of the JP-80 (far below any modern synth standard of today) was sufficient to turn the dead zone into a place looking like a frenzy of about 80% utterly clueless, agressive Roland-Zombies, posting silly answers against what they perceived as blashemy, instead of dealing with the problem and looking into the face of some ugly JP80 facts.

So no, I can not, and not at all, imagine ever buying such a half baked Roland product again (the Integra 7, despite some interesting specs, is definitely one more). But what I can imagine even less, is EVER dealing again with this kind of people lurking in that dead zone (wanting to be a Roland support forum). Weird folk, and rather a place for lost souls than a place helping users through constantly halfbaked Roland synth design.

[kanout]

So roland clan is dead,ok if you want...
So 80 per cent of their user are stupid,ok

And roland clan is full of troll,ok.if you want..

But what's absolutly funny,is the fact 3 or 4 korg forum users like you(always the same)are always taking the occasion to troll about roland and roland clan,with an ironic ,and a kind of innocent posture.
So you're more intelligent because you bought a kronos man..ok!
well done.

I don't know where 's the best attitude.

But like here,roland clan is a site made by a good guy who gave a lot.
And this has nothing to do with the integra 7..

The web needs korg forum,but needs roland clan too.
And music needs korg but roland too.
Just try to use your intelligence to respect a little more some roland user,korg isn't your father's company.
Not for me or you,just for the pleasure to share and gear passion.
This is just gear,not more.