My Kronos impressions

[EvilDragon]

Aha, the EvilDragon review!!!!

Like it's the biggest thing going on in the universe right now, eh? j/k

I haven't noticed that, but maybe you didn't try the MS-20 enough. That is one crazy synth. I LOVE IT! Nasty sounds with minimal effort. Every time I demo it, people are blown away.

Yep, I did try all synth engines. MS-20 does sound a bit more brutal, but when resonance was at max and I was turning the cutoff knob, I really couldn't tell much difference between that and doing the same thing on AL-1 or Polysix.

We have a thread going - maybe the Japanese will be better in a band context.

Possible, but I'll leave that to the people actually gigging with the thing.

It works. It doesn't bother me. Plus there is the data slider, numeric keyboard and up and down buttons.

True, but I like spinning the alpha wheel with confidence. PC3 has it done right. Kronos does not. In my test session, there were a number of instances where I needed to do two "clicks" (if you can call that a click, I can't) to get it to register the increment/decrement. Who knows why, but it happened.

Not if they are encoders like in my CS6X. These suckers failed me and I curse them every time I have to navigate using them.

I mean more like encoders on a Nord Lead 3, or a Behringer BCR2000, or a Waldorf Blofeld. Those things rock!

One thing that isn't mentioned much is the finish. It looks like it will scratch so easily. The PC3 got it right with that TOUGH finish. BTW: my plastic side on my PC3 cracked so it isn't that tough either.

You got that right!

BTW: wood sides on my PC3K8 are really a nice touch!

Oh one more thing - black. Hmmm I have hardly used mine and last night I noticed all the dust on it. That black shows dust like no other keyboard….

Sadly, yes. I've just cleaned the dust on my boards today.

>and I'm talking about the $2600 preorder price some of you got it for.

I got it for way less than that and BTW I feel it was totally worth it. I paid $400 more than I did for my PC361 and it was worth it.

Lucky bastard!

I already said, all Kurzweil needs to do is:

Improve the samples
Create new UIs over VAST
Maybe now improve their version of SST - believe me the Kronos is better right now.

All of that will be done.

IMPROVE their design. Cables with heavy ferrite, unsecured and then flimsy connector result in an unreliable keyboard.

Can't say anything about that, mine seems done very neatly when I looked inside. I'm actually quite sad you had all those issues, as I told you already.

That being said, they are taking YEARS to release a simple ROM bard expansion…. I have little faith in them releasing a new board a reachable price point - soon.

They slowed down ROM board production to focus more on the next big thing. They have much less resources and people than Korg (and then again Korg is still the smallest of the big 3), so longer waits are to be expected, I guess. I hope they'll rise to power they deserve and they had in due time.

[EvilDragon]

Here's some simple things I did running through those terrible string combis on the Kronos. All played in realtime.

Kronos Strings

Yeah. I totally don't like how they sound at all. There's something missing in the whole thing. Sorry.

[Synthoid]

>and I'm talking about the $2600 preorder price some of you got it for.

I got it for way less than that and BTW I feel it was totally worth it. I paid $400 more than I did for my PC361 and it was worth it.

Care to share with the forum where you received such a low price?

[burningbusch]

Here's some simple things I did running through those terrible string combis on the Kronos. All played in realtime.

Kronos Strings

Yeah. I totally don't like how they sound at all. There's something missing in the whole thing. Sorry.

Yeah, they don't have that sampled in 1995 sound. I have string libraries from East West, VSL, LASS, Garritan and Miroslav and NONE sound like Kurzweil. Sorry.

Busch.

[EvilDragon]

Actually strings from PC3 are 10 years newer than that. But whatever. They still sound better. To me, IMHO, YMMV, whatever.

[aron]

I got my Kronos from Full Compass (I believe I posted that before). I got a price better than I asked for both times. The other time was my PC361. Their customer service is the best I have ever gotten. I highly recommend them.

[CfNorENa]

Well at least I'm not making the stuff up, since I actually went out and tested Kronos, first hand? Say what you want, but I was prepared to go out, try Kronos, and stand there in awe at how amazing it sounds. Instead, I was left feeling so-so (mainly disappointed with certain samples and CX-3), and my GAS went away because there was lots of unexpectedly bad sounding stuff, IMO. So there.

Pretty much my experience, too. I had three lengthy sessions with the Kronos, and couldn't shake the feeling that I preferred the sound of the Motif XF that was right next to it. And I WANT to shake the feeling, because I have only ever had Korg workstations, and the idea of trying to learn that miserable Motif OS makes me want to cringe.

Don't know what to do. I may end up going with the Kronos over the Motif, just because I'm so familiar with "the Korg way," and because I know how deep the machine is (i.e., I want to be careful about NOT judging the thing solely on presets). The main sounds I need out of a workstation are piano and orchestral sounds (and maybe some ethnic sounds, too). I'd consider the PC3X, given how inexpensive it is, but I wonder if I could survive with that UI and sequencer...

[GregC]

Well at least I'm not making the stuff up, since I actually went out and tested Kronos, first hand? Say what you want, but I was prepared to go out, try Kronos, and stand there in awe at how amazing it sounds. Instead, I was left feeling so-so (mainly disappointed with certain samples and CX-3), and my GAS went away because there was lots of unexpectedly bad sounding stuff, IMO. So there.

Pretty much my experience, too. I had three lengthy sessions with the Kronos, and couldn't shake the feeling that I preferred the sound of the Motif XF that was right next to it. And I WANT to shake the feeling, because I have only ever had Korg workstations, and the idea of trying to learn that miserable Motif OS makes me want to cringe.

Don't know what to do. I may end up going with the Kronos over the Motif, just because I'm so familiar with "the Korg way," and because I know how deep the machine is (i.e., I want to be careful about NOT judging the thing solely on presets). The main sounds I need out of a workstation are piano and orchestral sounds (and maybe some ethnic sounds, too). I'd consider the PC3X, given how inexpensive it is, but I wonder if I could survive with that UI and sequencer...

I owned the XS76 and had no problem letting it go. UI is huge , IMO. Makes
no sense to have a 99 cent UI and a $100,000 sound engine.

I can understand how important orchestra is. If you can't easily roll your own on Kronos, maybe Karo will come thru with great orchestra samples.
It would be worth the wait.

[burningbusch]

I hope you people who are making judgements on the presets know that 95%+ of the sounds in user banks I-A through I-G use only the original OASYS 314MB "ROM". User-A has a smattering of programs based on the EXis.

On the SSD there are two EXi3 program banks, one EXi3 combi bank plus a bunch of EXi3 samples that aren't loaded.

Just saying, as I'm finding the EXi3 winds/brass to be OUTSTANDING when programmed, especially when using a breath controller.

Busch.

[GregC]

I hope you people who are making judgements on the presets know that 95%+ of the sounds in user banks I-A through I-G use the original OASYS 314MB "ROM". User-A has a smattering of programs based on the EXis.

On the SSD there are two EXi3 program banks, one EXi3 combi bank plus a bunch of EXi3 samples that aren't loaded.

Just saying, as I'm finding the EXi3 winds/brass to be OUTSTANDING when programmed, especially when using a breath controller.

Busch.

Busch, you are doing a great job giving folks the facts.

Could you guide me on getting a quality breath controller( plus any applicable midi device) ?

The prospect of shopping for a used breath controller is making me pause.

[CfNorENa]

I hope you people who are making judgements on the presets know that 95%+ of the sounds in user banks I-A through I-G use only the original OASYS 314MB "ROM". User-A has a smattering of programs based on the EXis.

On the SSD there are two EXi3 program banks, one EXi3 combi bank plus a bunch of EXi3 samples that aren't loaded.

Just saying, as I'm finding the EXi3 winds/brass to be OUTSTANDING when programmed, especially when using a breath controller.

Busch.

Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely do some more exploring.

@GregC: good call on the importance of the UI and the potential KARO soundsets.

Believe me, I WANT to want the Kronos!

[madbeatzyo111]

(when you subtract the brute-forced 9 GB they used for pianos (which proves they cannot really make a nice and optimized sample set, in fact)...

I've read and seen a lot of reviews on the Kronos, but this is the first time I've seen criticism of Korg for putting the best piano sound on the market into their keyboard I suppose you would prefer instead a highly compressed sample set that uses pychoacoustic trickery to make it sound real?

[Bruce Lychee]

(when you subtract the brute-forced 9 GB they used for pianos (which proves they cannot really make a nice and optimized sample set, in fact)...

I've read and seen a lot of reviews on the Kronos, but this is the first time I've seen criticism of Korg for putting the best piano sound on the market into their keyboard I suppose you would prefer instead a highly compressed sample set that uses pychoacoustic trickery to make it sound real?

Whatever they are doing with the pianos, they are doing something right because they are arguably the best sounding pianos available. It is one of the very few digital piano sounds I enjoy playing.

[danatkorg]

One thing that I noticed, though, and I don't really like it, is that the resonance sweeps sounded virtually the same when bumped to the max, no matter which engine I was using. And no, it's not the monitoring system, the friend who was there next to me noticed the same thing. I was expecting more difference between the filters, but right now, I feel quite confused.

Here are some quick demos of the MS-20, PolysixEX, and AL-1 filters at full resonance. For the AL-1 I did four versions: 2-pole and 4-pole lowpass filters, each with the two different settings of Resonance Bass (Tight and Full). Envelope settings are identical for all examples; to keep the MS-20 and PolysixEX consistent, I used the standard EG3 instead of their respective modeled envelopes. I adjusted the levels to be roughly the same at the start of the sweep; the levels after that vary depending on the filter type.

AL-1_LPF_2-Pole_Full
AL-1_LPF_2-Pole_Tight
AL-1_LPF_4-Pole_Full
AL-1_LPF_4-Pole_Tight
MS-20EX
PolysixEX

Listen for yourself. The differences I notice are:
* AL-1 is cleaner than the vintage models
* Resonance is more prominent in 2-pole than 4-pole
* AL-1 Resonance Bass settings change the way the resonance sounds lower frequencies, at the end of the sweep. Tight has a settling effect and then mostly disappears; Full is smooth and really booms at the end.
* PolysixEX bass characteristics are halfway between the AL-1's Tight and Full; resonance is more dominant as part of the tone in comparison to the AL-1; a touch of pleasant grit
* MS-20 speaks for itself

Hope this helps,

- Dan

[aron]

>Could you guide me on getting a quality breath controller( plus any applicable midi device) ?


The breath controller is dying. I am going to build my own. Yamaha cancelled it recently. I'm bummed.