Most important (virtual) analogue sounds to you?

[Kevin Nolan]

Actually - you make a good point regarding the Access Virus. It has been so successful because of both the strength of the synth engine AND the strength of the presets.


As much as I love AL-1 (and it is a real favorite of mine) - it has suffered a little from being a tad too 'vanilla' sounding, not _quite_ as strong or characterful as say an Access Virus or Nord Lead and tricky to program. Many have cited a lack of punch in the bass end, while the filters have not over enthused either.

If there was an upgrade Korg might consider to enhance Kronos even more and perhaps win over more synthesists is in updating AL-1 with new oscillator and filter choices built on classics - such as new sawtooth choices based on the P5 , JP, Moog and CS, provide a JP8000 type multisaw, offer the classic filter options of the King Korg; and create a new killer program set.

But of course that would then potentially undermine the King Korg market!

[QuiRobinez]

As much as I love AL-1 (and it is a real favorite of mine) - it has suffered a little from being a tad too 'vanilla' sounding, not _quite_ as strong or characterful as say an Access Virus or Nord Lead and tricky to program. Many have cited a lack of punch in the bass end, while the filters have not over enthused either.

personally i love it when a Virtual Analog has it's own sound. The Access Virus is really strong in the mid EQ areas, i find a virus ti lacking punch in the low area and that's what i like about the virus ti, it blends perfectly in my productions. Now when i compare the TI sound to my Radias Module then it's the opposite, the radias is soooo strong in the low end, i really like the low end of the radias and that's why i still have that module in the studio.

The sound of the AL-1 is difficult to describe, i still find it hard to program, normally i know upfront how a sound will turn out when i modify the parameters but in the case of the AL-1 it always sounds different than what i expect. For me that's a good thing, it shows that there is a lot of potential in the AL-1 that is different than other VA synths. So i'm still trying things out with the AL-1 to master it completely but there is still a lot to discover. Of course i have programmed numerous sounds for the AL-1 and they all sound great, but every patch has turned out differently than i had in mind. So i still see a lot of potential for the AL-1 in addition to the VA's i already have.

If there was an upgrade Korg might consider to enhance Kronos even more and perhaps win over more synthesists is in updating AL-1 with new oscillator and filter choices built on classics - such as new sawtooth choices based on the P5 , JP, Moog and CS, provide a JP8000 type multisaw, offer the classic filter options of the King Korg; and create a new killer program set.

i agree, especially the filter section would be great if they added those classic filters.

For the sawtooth choices i have a very positive experience by using my own samples for that in the HD-1 module. I've sampled raw waveforms from my JP8080 and Virus TI and created programs for them and they do sound really different then the standard korg sounds. SanderXpander also described this when he used his own samples and i have the same experience. You can drastically change the sound experience by using raw samples of other synths. Since you can create your own streaming libraries this is really a strong point of the kronos.

Now the filter section could be expanded, but i still believe that it should be possible to modify the behaviour of the filter through the AMS mixer. I've learned a similar trick from a webcast from Eric Persing for Omnisphere where the omnisphere filter was changed to behave like a different filter. That worked really good, so i'm curious if i could achieve something similar in the kronos.

So after more then two years i still have a lot to learn from the kronos, i love that, there isn't a synth in my studio that i needed that long to learn how to program. The kronos gives me that possibility

[cynkh]

Well, look what happened with the MS-20. People obviously demanded it and it resurrected via software and OASYS, then Kronos and iOS and now as a full-fledged standalone analog synth. Maybe features from King Korg will end up filtering (no pun intended ) into Kronos or a subsequent workstation.

I also find the filters to be a bit "flimsy" sounding but the ability to layer in programs, the inclusion of filters in the effects section and the ability to daisy chain EXi's in Combi mode give the Kronos an edge on the Virus. It's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison but with some creative engineering you can really fatten up the AL-1 (or even daisy chain into/out of MS-20EX) without ever having to use external processing...

Just food for thought... Cheers!

Actually - you make a good point regarding the Access Virus. It has been so successful because of both the strength of the synth engine AND the strength of the presets.


As much as I love AL-1 (and it is a real favorite of mine) - it has suffered a little from being a tad too 'vanilla' sounding, not _quite_ as strong or characterful as say an Access Virus or Nord Lead and tricky to program. Many have cited a lack of punch in the bass end, while the filters have not over enthused either.

If there was an upgrade Korg might consider to enhance Kronos even more and perhaps win over more synthesists is in updating AL-1 with new oscillator and filter choices built on classics - such as new sawtooth choices based on the P5 , JP, Moog and CS, provide a JP8000 type multisaw, offer the classic filter options of the King Korg; and create a new killer program set.

But of course that would then potentially undermine the King Korg market!

[MortenJ]

Actually - you make a good point regarding the Access Virus. It has been so successful because of both the strength of the synth engine AND the strength of the presets.


As much as I love AL-1 (and it is a real favorite of mine) - it has suffered a little from being a tad too 'vanilla' sounding, not _quite_ as strong or characterful as say an Access Virus or Nord Lead and tricky to program. Many have cited a lack of punch in the bass end, while the filters have not over enthused either.

If there was an upgrade Korg might consider to enhance Kronos even more and perhaps win over more synthesists is in updating AL-1 with new oscillator and filter choices built on classics - such as new sawtooth choices based on the P5 , JP, Moog and CS, provide a JP8000 type multisaw, offer the classic filter options of the King Korg; and create a new killer program set.

But of course that would then potentially undermine the King Korg market!

also the vintage phaser,Chorus and Flanger that is in EP-1 MDS could be great for AL-1 also ,they are also in kingkorg

[levioter]

Kevin,
good question that you are asking there !!
I am a fan of great vintage big sounds like Minimmog D, CS80, Oberheim, Prophet 5, etc ...
I think AL-1 could do a lot of them but with really spending a lot of time to program the details.
The filter in AL-1 is really powerful but is really difficult to program.
For instance what is improtant is to tweak the filter modulation: keyboard track by the way is of a great consequence on the sound it could make a huge difference. If it is not well tuned you may have a really dull sound in the bass registry.
So I think that a more simple interface to program to AL-1 OSC and Filter could be a nice addition. May be also different types of filters (moogish ones or OB ones (lol))

Good thread anyway ! I am really curious to see all the remarks from the folks here !

Cheers

[synthguy]

I've been meaning to post in this thread for a while. Like others have said, AL-1 is a rather different VA. A little digital sounding, a little analog, a little vintage, a little not... it's both a chameleon and it's own creature, and like Qui Rob said, I've grown to like that character it has. And like others have said, you have to spend a little more time on it to get what you want out of it, and then you may still not get there. But that "somewhere else" is always good.

Like Kevin, I've been trying to coax vintage analog sounds out of it for my own vintage patch set, and have been surprised at how well it does that with some tedious programming. One guy I gave them to remarked that my Moog patches were some of the best he'd ever heard! That really surprised me, but then I give my patches as much hands-on tweakability with the limited controls the Kronos has available, and I think I've found the sweet spots with oscillator tuning and what not.

Because AL-1 is so different, I think it has some of the best capacity to cover those Moog, ARP, Oberheim, Roland, Prophet, Yamaha CS-80 sounds and so on. While KORG rests on their laurels with Kronos and Krome for a while, I think it would be good for Jack Hotop and the programming team to come up with a few banks of vintage analog and digital emulations like I asked for a few months ago. But in the meantime, the offerings I and the others come up with here should make for some great soundmaking and sharing. It may be a month or two until I can continue with my work in that regard, with my dumb government job and a friend's album project I'm producing, but I hope that this thread proves to be a landmark the creative types can gather around and be inspired to do their own sounds.

[Ahnyxrik]

I have to say there is a demand for this, my Youtube page gets tons of hits on my Uber Analog project everyday. I would love to have Korg make a VA version of all the classic vintage analog emulations so we didn't have to load samples in. I still love the original samples from the real synths because the VA engines still do not have the "feel" or "character" the samples do. BUT the samples can only go so far... If someone can make it as close as possible, including how Roland adds the "Analog feel" option on their old workstations- I.E. analog drift, detune & quirks may make the vibe feel more analog. This excites me because someone WILL make this collection! So far the downloads of Kronos VA emulations have been nice & the pads have lots of emotion. But still not the real Analog "vibe".

[jimknopf]

I completely agree concerning the high demand: every keyboarder with a bit of horizon really wants as much as possible of the very wide classical arsenal of analog synths, and then some other stuff for actual electronica.

We talk of hundreds of basic classical analog sounds here, most of which have already found their way into the preset libraries of modern softsynths. And after some years, when everybody was only seeking new technical capabilities and the power of modular systems in a softsynth, nowadays the request for these classical sounds with character is back, and is actually the most sought after feature of a synth besides some electronica synth effects.

In software the "classical character" approach is meanwhile covered on high level and with many(!) presets by
- Arturias models of classical synths (plus the Origin),
- the OPX-II project
- UHEs Diva
- Steinbergs Retrologue
- NIs Monark
- and even Wave has just provided their first one with "Element" (Jordan Rudess endorsing it)

All these synths (most developed by very well known companies for good reason!) do model the classical analog sounds, and some of them are brand new, to cover the big request. I'm not even talking about the rapidly growing number real analog monosynths at the same time recently.

So from my view delivering presets of that kind for the Kronos VAs and the KK should range extremely high on the Korg priority list!

It seems, besides sounds with characteristic effects, preset sounds with character are what keyboarders want more than anything else at the moment. Even Roland tried to deliver that with their big classical preset package for the JP80/50. They just forgot to add a librarian for real use. The number of "classical character" Korg presets for the Kronos is still quite small, and the KK has had a good start with it's sigificantly less than 200 (the rest are sampled keys presets), but in fact needs nothing more urgent, than significantly more of that kind.

I really hope Korg sets the priorities right and doesn't leave preset development mainly to third party developers. They have all the goodies in the Kronos and KK, so they should really make more use of these possibilities by cooperation with professional programmers. Additional presets do not have to be free: it could be a good deal for both sides, one saving time (users), and the other delivering and earning money.

This aside, any effort of those among the users above who develop sound sets in the meantime, is of course very much appreciated! I just wanted to stress the big picture, which clearly moves into the direction we talk about.

[synthguy]

So far the downloads of Kronos VA emulations have been nice & the pads have lots of emotion. But still not the real Analog "vibe".

I'm not sure what can be done about that real analog vibe. The precisely built emulations get extremely close often times, and people still complain about Arturia's softsynths, which get you about 95% or so of the original sound. That last 5% of reality is very hard to capture in a digital instrument. Then again, you can't discount the placebo effect, as a number of keyboard players have been fooled when playing a VA controlled by an analog synth. Clonewheels are the same, as some Hammond players love them, and others think they're cheap knock offs. Even hybrids can't escape this criticism, as the new Prophet-12 is considered by some synthesists as "too digital," even though only the oscillators, envelopes and delays are digital, the rest being pure analog.

Personally, I don't care so much whether that last 5% or 20% or whatever of the sound isn't quite there, as long as I can make a killer patch with whatever synth I'm programming. Sometimes I fight to make a sound as juicy and analog as I can, but usually I find a happy spot that pleases me, no matter how authentic or VA it sounds. I like the fact that the AL-1 synth has its own character, even though that means it's not as much a chameleon as I'd like it to be sometimes. PolysixEX and MS-20EX are always on hand for variety and their own style of juice. And it also adds some desirability to Roland's Jupiters, the KK and the upcoming P-12, all of which I'm hoping to acquire this year.

In the meantime, I'm looking forward to everything people manage to produce with this monster, because it clearly has millions of patches lurking in its synth engines just waiting to be discovered.

[jeremykeys]

I have a very old MiniKorg. Serial number 287. I'd love to see an accurate emulation of that beasty! I do realize that we are never going to see the minikorg control panel on the Kronos screen ever but to me that is just not right. I think that there should be some way to introduce new synth engines into the Kronos.

On another note. I love the Al-1 but I'm an old guy. I WANT knobs. I love the Polysix and MS-20 emulations. Why can't there be a better GUI for us people that want to tweak on the fly? That's what analogue is all about.