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People can read and do a little research. With that knowledge they can test the common faults before taking it home.Ojustaboo wrote:Yep, it's the customers fault
Or how about the preposterous and nonsensical notion that there shouldn't be any 'common faults' to have to research in a flagship keyboard?GregC wrote:... they can test the common faults before taking it home ...Ojustaboo wrote:Yep, it's the customers fault
cello wrote:/GregC wrote:... they can test the common faults before taking it home ...Ojustaboo wrote:Yep, it's the customers fault
GregC wrote:we have talked thoroughly on this on another thread.cello wrote:Or how about the preposterous and nonsensical notion that there shouldn't be any 'common faults' to have to research in a flagship keyboard?GregC wrote: ... they can test the common faults before taking it home ...
Horse has bolted the barn long ago. Corporations, esp Manufacturers have been outsourcing to Asia, using low cost parts and cheap processes. This has been epidemic for 20 years. Consumers, esp US consumers benefit and enjoy low prices/more bang for the buck deals. As we know, Euro consumers still pay high prices with dubious quality. Sort of a lose/lose.
So quality is pretty much a dubious commodity. Manufacturer orders 10,000 parts from low cost Asia co. Everything seems groovy to Korg, yet in reality 500 parts out of 10,000 are carp. In the rush to produce a product and get the jump in the marketplace, the carpy parts are buried into the production process. Korg falls into the same bucket of other electronics co's of inconsistent quality standards.
US consumers mostly seem to get this. Am I really getting a good deal ? Is there a tradeoff/short cut in other areas where I pay a price later ? Lots of available independent research, publicity, quality data on cars, electronics, appliances.
If that were the case for all products, there would be no need for publications like Consumer Reports, which test and review many products (cars, washing machines, TVs, etc...) to find those "common faults." Ever look at the the reliability marks on high end cars (Mercedes, Jaguar, etc...)? It's terrible.cello wrote:Or how about the preposterous and nonsensical notion that there shouldn't be any 'common faults' to have to research in a flagship keyboard?GregC wrote:... they can test the common faults before taking it home ...Ojustaboo wrote:Yep, it's the customers fault
First thing I did when I got my first Kronos home was test for the keybed problem, It seemed perfect, It was only when doing a piano lesson doing a particular arpeggio exercise that the note cutoff came to light.GregC wrote:People can read and do a little research. With that knowledge they can test the common faults before taking it home.Ojustaboo wrote:Yep, it's the customers fault
Sure beats wasting time and money on gas.
The Trades Descriptions Act and the Sale of Goods Act both say that goods have to be as described. Therefore for a product to be called "new" there should have been no transfer to anyone else between the shop and the purchaser. "Even if something is bought and then brought back the next day it is still second-hand," said a spokeswoman for the Department of Trade and Industry.
once again, we are discussing the posters o/p and his Kronos circumstances. Testing at the store would have given him the immediate knowledge to not take that particular unit. As we know, there is abundant info available about defects, small and major.Ojustaboo wrote:First thing I did when I got my first Kronos home was test for the keybed problem, It seemed perfect, It was only when doing a piano lesson doing a particular arpeggio exercise that the note cutoff came to light.GregC wrote:People can read and do a little research. With that knowledge they can test the common faults before taking it home.Ojustaboo wrote:Yep, it's the customers fault
Sure beats wasting time and money on gas.
Once I knew how to produce it I could do it every time.
My second Kronos velocity problem only came to light after a few days, again doing another piano lesson where at first I thought it was me playing the piece wrong.
My KronosX, they offered to let me test it in the shop, I declined saying I'd soon bring it back if it was faulty. The shops only a 30 min drive away and rather than test in store with people roaming around the place, then having to pack it securely, I'd rather it at my house unpacked once, placed on the stand and away I go.
If I had tested it on store, they were going to offer me headphones to play it through.
The X has a few rattly keys and one that makes a boinging noise, they all play fine, its mechanical noises, I would not have noticed these in store with headphones on.
So for me, in all three examples, if I had got the board out in store and tested it, none of the problems would have shown up.
The Op bought a 61, it had something loose inside, he took it back, decided to change to the 73. It's two years since release, why should he suppose he was still at risk from this fault? Would he have noticed it if he had tried it on the store or would he have done like I did when I first got mine home, try every note thoroughly and think it's OK, only discovering the fault a few days later?
More to the point, its one thing consumer reports mentioning major problems developing in cars, electronics or whatever, its another them being present at time of purchase and the company and retail stores appearing not to care.
Every original board under the top secret serial number where the problem was eradicated at point of manufacture, sent out from Korg, should be tested for the note cutoff problem by someone that knows how to produce it.
Korg should have contacted all their resellers to explain the problem some people have had and tell them that if a customer returns the board with that problem, they are to return them to Korg and not resell them..
Any authorised reseller shop selling new equipment, unless they have a year old inventory (in which case I think Korg should ask for them back to test), should not now be selling new Kronoses with this problem.
And anyone selling B stock should clearly have this labelled. I know Korg UK refurbished a load that were sold as B stock by music retailers and again in those cases, the problem should have been checked for.
There really is NO excuse for people to still be going through this.
In the UK (and I suspect the EU) a company isn't allowed to sell a returned product as new, even if its bought back the following day unopened. A major UK electronics retailer was prosecuted for this a few years ago.
The Trades Descriptions Act and the Sale of Goods Act both say that goods have to be as described. Therefore for a product to be called "new" there should have been no transfer to anyone else between the shop and the purchaser. "Even if something is bought and then brought back the next day it is still second-hand," said a spokeswoman for the Department of Trade and Industry.
An engineer came to my house to replace a part in my £400 washing machine as it was a known fault discovered after manufacturing. I guarantee (the way it was sold in all UK white goods outlets etc) many more of those washing machines were sold than Kronoses have been.jeebustrain wrote:If that were the case for all products, there would be no need for publications like Consumer Reports, which test and review many products (cars, washing machines, TVs, etc...) to find those "common faults." Ever look at the the reliability marks on high end cars (Mercedes, Jaguar, etc...)? It's terrible.cello wrote:Or how about the preposterous and nonsensical notion that there shouldn't be any 'common faults' to have to research in a flagship keyboard?GregC wrote: ... they can test the common faults before taking it home ...
Not just me, still its their choice, in a few years when they're either bankrupt or out of the workstation market altogether due to their loss of reputation, it will be their own fault.GregC wrote: And stating what " Korg should do " must be getting tiresome. If they agreed with you, they would have done so.
I hope you don't move your board around, a loose screw could fry your motherboard etcBillW wrote:I bought one in December and there is something metal rattling around in it as well. I haven't opened it, but I'm sure it's a screw. Even though I'm very happy with the keyboard overall, this is probably Korg's worst moment. In 30 years of owning keyboards, this is by far the worst engineering job I've ever seen.
So yes I've been "researching". Last week I was down in NYC, stopped in Guitar Center and played the 61 for the first time and liked it. I've played the 88 up in the Albany Guitar Center. I've been going back and forth on the 61 vs. 73/88 . I just put doors on our dining room which will become a new music room / den, but sizewise having two boards there would be a squeeze. I could do 61 over my 88, but then there would be no place to put sheet music. Prices online I've seen have been $3300(73) vs $2800(61) for the original Kronos. I have seen the 61 for less in a Sam Ash and Guitar Center (Paramus NJ), but that was for the floor model with no original packaging.michelkeijzers wrote:I would also check it at the store itself if you had to drive that far.
Also, a bit strange you bought a 61 and within a day you decided to buy a 73. Isn't that part of the 'research'?
Hope you will be happy with a good one. Most are as can be read in the topics.
). Yes - I should've demanded to take it out of the box, plug it in and try it there - but it was already late and I figured what are the odds of getting two bad boards in a row? I'm pretty sure they would've had no problem with me opening it there - so far no complaints at all with Alto. I am so happy I didn't get one off EBay or mail order!Unfortunately, I have to on a regular basis. I usually shake it around a little so that the screw is in the bottom of the case. I will eventually get it fixed under warranty, but that can sometimes take 2-3 months in the shop.Ojustaboo wrote:I hope you don't move your board around, a loose screw could fry your motherboard etcBillW wrote:I bought one in December and there is something metal rattling around in it as well. I haven't opened it, but I'm sure it's a screw. Even though I'm very happy with the keyboard overall, this is probably Korg's worst moment. In 30 years of owning keyboards, this is by far the worst engineering job I've ever seen.
