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burningbusch wrote:Time span between Motif has been 3.5 years. The XF was announced Aug 2010, so 2.5 years would be quite earlier for them.

Busch.

After all I heard from various sources, the Kronos made it impossible for them to keep their old update span. They will definitely visit Winter Namm 2013 with a new workstation. And I wouldn't be surprised to find some Kronos features in that workstation.

Kronos 3.0 OS including full featured sequencer, drum grid and 2 x free library from Korg ?

jimknopf wrote:

burningbusch wrote:Time span between Motif has been 3.5 years. The XF was announced Aug 2010, so 2.5 years would be quite earlier for them.

Busch.

After all I heard from various sources, the Kronos made it impossible for them to keep their old update span. They will definitely visit Winter Namm 2013 with a new workstation. And I wouldn't be surprised to find some Kronos features in that workstation.

I dream of a VL-Technology revolution, but with Yamaha, it's near impossible to get your hopes up any more. The day they stopped developing VL was the day I gave up on Yamaha. My VL-70m and WX-5 are priceless to me.

Regards
Sharp.

An OS update for the Kronos which includes an updated sequencer would be really nice. Maybe Yamaha will come out with something new at NAMM but that remains to be seen

Well Yamaha will probably have Karma in the new workstation...if indeed, they do bring out a synth. If VL was added that would create big problems for Korg...and possibly the others.

Billy

billysynth1 wrote:Well Yamaha will probably have Karma in the new workstation...if indeed, they do bring out a synth. If VL was added that would create big problems for Korg...and possibly the others.

Billy

Yes.. may be... but they will mess it up in some otherway.... you know it always happens..

billysynth1 wrote:If VL was added that would create big problems for Korg...and possibly the others.

Doubt it, Korg is already filling up that market share. Looks like the "big problems" has already begun, but the other way around.

Yeah, "big problems" would require Yamaha to produce a wondersynth with the overwhelming impact of something like the OASYS. As good as the EX5 was, it didn't do that, while for some reason the Triton did take over the market.

Prior to the OASYS showing up, the Jupiter-80 might have been that awesome synth. But KORG made a supersynth into an affordable supersynth, so Yamaha will have to do something pretty special if they want to wow people. And just to clarify, I think the JP-80 is a supersynth, and to me as desirable as a Kronos. And, I think the Motif XF is a fantastic rompler. But making the best rompler in the world isn't good enough to do more than place it in last place for me as far as "I want that." And it seems to be true for many vocal keyboardists. The last thing the Keyboard world wants to see from Yamaha - or anyone - is another rompler.

I'm more inclined to wonder what the next Monotron is going to be?
As for Yamaha and Roland, Unless they have something that does everything a Kronos can do plus a ton more for a lot less money, they're out of the picture. Yamaha seems stuck with the Tyros to me and Roland's Jupiters aren't anything that I want. Until the V Synth comes down drastically in price I'm sticking with Korg.

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If Roland packed a few of its V-technologys into a SuperSynth with the PHA-111 keybed, good quality hardware/controllers and a nice largish touch screen I'd buy it in a heart beat.

It would have to include V-Piano, V-Synth GT/Expanded, Jupiter 80. ARX software: Drums or V-Drums, Brass, Electric Pianos. It would also have to come with all the software and sounds of the Integra-7. Although I'm not into sequencing or DAWs i believe Roland own Sonar? Pop that in too. Oh, and Vocoder too.

Ok, some of you will say, yeah sure, how much will it cost...Why would it be difficult for all the above not to be included in a SuperSynth? Its just software...all they need to do is integrate it. They already have the code, so its not like they need to spend millions on hiring people to develop it. Its already developed...they just need to integrate it...is this hard?? You buy an ipad you can fill it up with software synths etc, but its just not integrated.

Come on man...parts and labour are cheap nowadays out in the Asian countries. Surely such a keyboard can be manufactured?

Regards
Billy

Heider, I have no idea why you think that a well done new Yamaha workstation would mean a lot to Kronos owners. I for one couldn't care less, because the Kronos does most of what I want and need, and Yamaha is simply too late now to play any role in my gear plans for the next few years.

The rest is personal taste, and I'm no fan of their overall kind of sound anyway. They offer a kind of "middle of the road" sound for my ears: typical well done pop sound, smooth, but without much character (but nice acoustic instrument sampling). Their new synth will probably offer that kind of sound on a higher level, without changing the basic sound character. And I doubt they will offer something comparable to the Kronos engine concept: they will rather bring their sampling concept to the next level.

Not much to worry or bother for Kronos users, unless you want a bit of gear from everyone and everything.

billysynth1 wrote:-
If Roland packed a few of its V-technologys into a SuperSynth with the PHA-111 keybed, good quality hardware/controllers and a nice largish touch screen I'd buy it in a heart beat.

It would have to include V-Piano, V-Synth GT/Expanded, Jupiter 80. ARX software: Drums or V-Drums, Brass, Electric Pianos. It would also have to come with all the software and sounds of the Integra-7. Although I'm not into sequencing or DAWs i believe Roland own Sonar? Pop that in too. Oh, and Vocoder too.

Ok, some of you will say, yeah sure, how much will it cost...Why would it be difficult for all the above not to be included in a SuperSynth? Its just software...all they need to do is integrate it. They already have the code, so its not like they need to spend millions on hiring people to develop it. Its already developed...they just need to integrate it...is this hard?? You buy an ipad you can fill it up with software synths etc, but its just not integrated.

Come on man...parts and labour are cheap nowadays out in the Asian countries. Surely such a keyboard can be manufactured?

Regards
Billy

I agree this would NEVER happen, but if they did and did it RIGHT they could potentially take over the market (respective to their product cycle). The problem with Roland this last decade or so is EVERYTHING they've put out is "half-baked".

neomad wrote:Kronos 3.0 OS including full featured sequencer, drum grid ...?

Someone's got to come up with new usability paradigms. I don't know, don't have the sales figures over time to back this up, but I strongly suspect that it's barely worth it anymore for companies to create super workstations like the Kronos/XF/PC3/FG. What a huge undertaking!

And, it's gotten so complex that they can add on features, but it doesn't mean that anyone other than tech geeks can use even a fraction of what's on offer, and stay in any kind of musical flow.

You can only go so far in offering new technologies- the user interface and technology-as-a-musical instrument have to catch up now, which is where the "Apple" of music (Korg most likely) that emerges will have wide appeal that goes beyond the traditional markets for workstations, stage pianos and keyboards in general.


The board I would love to see at NAMM would be able to easily create a whole informal music scene at a party or have setup in the living room for the whole family would
~ Start as a Krome

~ Have serious speakers onboard (loud and good enough that it becomes the pa for a small party); for those of you that are onboard speaker snobs, try a board with good speakers- you're board becomes instantly portable with fantastic personal stereo, and if more watts/speaker tech was put into it, enough sound for a small, jam party. To save space, perhaps there's a "sub" of sorts that fires from underneath the keyboard

~ Have a basic drum machine with easily accessible dedicated controls, 4-8 pads and lots of groovy presets. The single thing i miss the most with any board for ease of use is having the capabilities of a drum machine without having to be interfaced to a computer or an outboard drum machine; having a single drum track like the M3/Kronos is not enough!

~ Have a fun, easy to use looper that can loop the keyboard and mixer inputs and have dedicated top panel controls; this would be fantastic, a party favorite, a practice tool, etc., perhaps with a dedicated footswitch for punch-in/out. I've seen simple sequencer implementations of this on a stage piano (Kawai?) that made it a slam dunk to press a button, create your backing track by playing the keyboard, and then push a button again and you've got an instantly looping background track; that's just one of many ways to create some kind of instant looping

~ mp3 and .wav record and playback

~ A small mixer (2-3 mic/line channels) with dedicated level, eq and fx controls on the top panel- but no electric guitar inputs!

~ a monitor out (lyrics?)

~ under 30 pounds, 77 keys (C to E), under $1,500

~ dedicated "party" modes for the screen with large fonts and easy access to important parameters

A few thoughts.

billysynth1 wrote:If Roland packed a few of its V-technologys into a SuperSynth with the PHA-111 keybed, good quality hardware/controllers and a nice largish touch screen I'd buy it in a heart beat.

It would have to include V-Piano, V-Synth GT/Expanded, Jupiter 80. ARX software: Drums or V-Drums, Brass, Electric Pianos. It would also have to come with all the software and sounds of the Integra-7. Although I'm not into sequencing or DAWs i believe Roland own Sonar? Pop that in too. Oh, and Vocoder too.

Ok, some of you will say, yeah sure, how much will it cost...Why would it be difficult for all the above not to be included in a SuperSynth?

jimknopf wrote:Heider, I have no idea why you think that a well done new Yamaha workstation would mean a lot to Kronos owners. I for one couldn't care less, because the Kronos does most of what I want and need, and Yamaha is simply too late now to play any role in my gear plans for the next few years.

The rest is personal taste, and I'm no fan of their overall kind of sound anyway. They offer a kind of "middle of the road" sound for my ears: typical well done pop sound, smooth, but without much character (but nice acoustic instrument sampling). Their new synth will probably offer that kind of sound on a higher level, without changing the basic sound character. And I doubt they will offer something comparable to the Kronos engine concept: they will rather bring their sampling concept to the next level.

Not much to worry or bother for Kronos users, unless you want a bit of gear from everyone and everything.

On Billy's, That's a great idea, BUT. The V-Synth is still selling, and a lot of people still want one in spite of the stupid price - most are being sold on great deals from what I hear, but still selling. In fact, all of those items are still selling if I recall. What's more, the new Jupiters have only been out for a year or so, and in spite of the dissing some people have for them, I think they're damned sexy, powerful synths and I want one badly.

Because of this - and something I'll get to presently - I think a Roland megasynth, while extirely possible and feasible, won't happen for a few years yet. What's more likely to me is an Integra-80 with something like Sonar built in, and a nice touch screen or mouse, kbd and monitor ports.

Wasn't sure what to leave out of Jim's post, because he makes several points. First of all, it's clear that the market was ready for OASYS, just not at the high price. Kronoses are selling by the dozens to hundreds each week, even to some OASYS owners who value those half-modeled pianos and new sample streaming options, along with the bigger effects chains. Since Kronos is a whole keyboard studio in a case, many people are happy just with it and aren't in the market for another synth.

The Jupiter really is "that other synth," and while it isn't selling like tacos or Kronoses, it is doing fairly well. Some stores are out of stock.

The Motif XF is a solid, great sounding rompler with great effects too. But the problem is that it's just a rompler. You need at least a VA or analog synth to go with it to cover all your bases, and an organ wouldn't hurt. And because it is just a rompler, the Kronos and Jupiter have got to be way outshining it and hurting its sales somewhat, perhaps a lot.

And the thing is, the music market is big and fickle and most importantly, saturated with great gear. A lot of people have some gear that is very good, solid, understood, and they're used to it. Those who gig have their routine down. And all these guys who might think of a new piece to give them a new core to their rig, or a powerful first synth, or maybe just a new flavor to add to their sonic palette might buy something new on the market now. They might wait for something new and sexy from NAMM. They might buy something small, or grab something from the IMMENSE used market, which is highly likely.

Maybe Yamaha has their market sewn up. I don't know, but they can't be happy with what Kronos and Jupiter are doing to it. They have to compete with all that stuff I posted above, so whatever they do had better be damned impressive. The only reason that the Jupiters are sneered at more than the Motifs is because many people won't even acknowledge that the Mo even exists.

And... because of things I can't discuss, don't count on music manufacturers getting adventurous in the coming years.