It was a good run while it lasted... RESOLVED!

MRedZac · Post by **MRedZac** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:10 pm

I suggest, we all send a notification of defect to our dealers due to a hidden fault. Giving a 2 weeks period to fix it and if not, you have all the possibilities on your side - just to gain legal security...
If you do not claim it, by law you accept it ! Think about it !

Trusting Korg is good - having something like this written to them is better...

BillW · Post by **BillW** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:38 pm

Last night was my last gig with the Kronos. It didn't freeze up this time, but it seems that anytime I play a combi with the CX-3, I can count on it going silent at some point during the show...it happened 3 times last night. I suspect it is due to the way the Kronos was constructed. The stress of simply playing the keyboard is causing something to happen internally with the control surface.

BrickPilot · Post by **BrickPilot** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:49 pm

Regarding those who asked... My board is a K88, sn 000420. I will try the OS restore, if I can do that via flash drive. I don't have an external DVD drive, and don't see buying one. I do have an external hard drive, perhaps I can copy the DVD image thereon if needed. We'll see.

Thanks. I only WISH I had an older high-end board to fall back on. All my other gear is at least 10 years old. Oh well.

MRedZac · Post by **MRedZac** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:57 pm

BrickPilot wrote:Regarding those who asked... My board is a K88, sn 000420. I will try the OS restore, if I can do that via flash drive. I don't have an external DVD drive, and don't see buying one. I do have an external hard drive, perhaps I can copy the DVD image thereon if needed. We'll see.

Thanks. I only WISH I had an older high-end board to fall back on. All my other gear is at least 10 years old. Oh well.

Seems you really have one of the first boards...

BrickPilot · Post by **BrickPilot** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:19 pm

Yeah, and it will be hard to surrender my infamous serial #, should I need to have the thing replaced. Regarding the OS restore, that can only be done after the unit is booted. I'm copying Accessory disk 1 to a flash drive now... we'll see if that works as a boot device.

Ojustaboo · Post by **Ojustaboo** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:31 pm

MarPabl wrote:Well just before sending to the service center, try to restore the OS and you can even format the SSD. the specific instructions to do so are found on the Setup Guide for OS 1.5

While that may sort out the problem, I personally would be concerned as to what caused it and is it likely to happen again.

I wouldn't expect to have to restore/reformat every few months due to it failing to boot. Infact the only times I can think of where such a course of action might be needed (should be needed) is if something went wrong during a software update etc.

aron · Post by **aron** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:36 pm

I wish Korg could get a look at some of these keyboards which are not booting/loading. The best thing that could happen is that they get to take a look and see what is causing this. Otherwise they may never get to fix it completely.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:13 pm

Frankly, that's what I expect they have been doing since some weeks.
Now some signal of a solution in sight would be more than welcome.

MarPabl · Post by **MarPabl** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:32 pm

Maybe this issue will arise if you touch anything while the Kronos is still booting

mm-pro · Post by **mm-pro** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:47 pm

FWIW, I couldn't boot from DVD when this happened to me and it was bad ram.

Regards,

MM

Bdeon28 · Post by **Bdeon28** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:10 pm

BrickPilot we are in the same boat! I have a Kronos 88 and my serial number is 422 so maybe there is a pattern here? I bought my Kronos on Labor Day weekend (end of September) took it out of the box when I got home and it has been sitting there unmoved since then. I too cover it every night and have it plugged into a line conditioner and care for it very well. Once 1.5 came out I upgraded and ever since then I have had the problem you descibed System Startup failure and here is what I have gone through so far.

1. Called Korg Tech support and they suggested I connect a DVD and restore the koeyboard.
2. Bought a USB powered DVD read/writer and restored the keyboard back to the original OS.
3. Worked for about a day upgraded to 1.5 worked for one more dau and then the failure again.
4. Connected the USB DVD player and the Kronos would not see it.
5. Contacted tech support and they said I should buy an AC powered DVD player.
6. Bought an LG powered one. The Kronos would not see it!
7. Called Tech sipport they said I need to take it to an authorized service center. Fortunately there was one within a 1/2 hours drive.
8. Got a call from them saying the hard drive was bad but could not get any details on how they arrived at this but worked with Korg tech support. They said they are back ordered and would not have it for 6 to 8 weeks. (YES 6 to 8 WEEKS!!!)

Just to give you some more background the keyboard would boot up if I let it sit for about 24 hours and then booted it up! Can't explain that. But if I used it shut it off and waited 1 minute it would not boot. Come back the next day and it would boot.

I decided I would prefer to hold onto the keyboard while we are waiting for Korg to get more drives. Honestly they should try Best Buy, Newegg, Amazon, or pretty much any retailer because they could get one overnighted but I understand waiting for small volume Toshiba 30GB drive with incredibly slow specs. Seems worth the wait, right?

I took the keyboard home turned it on and it worked. Played for a while, shut it off, waited one minute and turned it on and it worked. Repeated that 5 times over the next 4 hours and thought maybe something was loose? Tried again Saturday morning and it booted up. Played it for a couple of hours shut it off, waited 1 minute and I have been not able to get it to boot since Saturday.

More breif history...I have been in IT since 1995 PC's for years and now Telecom Analyst. I decided I have a 120 GB SSD drive let me see. I removed the back replaced the drive and I get the same problem and neither of the DVD drives I have are recognized by the Kronos.

Tonight I will try and replace the RAM with known good RAM and report what I found.

So to make a long story even longer I am waiting 6 to 8 weeks for a hard drive from Korg that I already know will not fix the problem. Maybe there are multiple problems. Maybe the hard drive is bad but there is also some hardware issue either with the mother board or the USB connector (neither would work by the way). IF this were a PC with a monitor and keyboard I could check to see if the boot order is USB then hard drive but I can't. I could try different RAM. I could even try other hardware componenets but again it is not a PC even though it has a motherboard, RAM, a hard drive, and USB connections.

My problem is that I paid $3500 and sold all the keyboard equipment I owned to get one that would do everything. I have 3 auditions that I cannot even go to so this is affecting me financially. It is only a part time hobby so not like I am destitute but again it is an inconvenience. My issues is Korg and the authorized service center have no incentive to get this fixed and identify the issue quickly. If they go component by compnent and I lose the ability to use it for 6 months who is it going to negatively affect? Only me. In the end they will get it working BUT WHEN??? I understand a large company like Korg is busy working out these issues. I appreciate the support I have gooten and Korg support has been great but what they do not or cannot do anything about is the fact that I can't wait. I can't wait 6 to 8 weeks to find out it may be something else. I also realize I am not the only client of the service center I can't wait for them either. I don't think I should give any company that amount of money an lose the ability to use the product for 2 months. What if it was a vehicle? If you bought a new vehicle and the dealer said we need to replace a part and you will have it back in 2 months would that be acceptable to anyone? What are my options at this point? I either take matters into my own hands or wait. I don't like that I have to do either!

Any suggestions would be welcome becuase there are at least 2 people here that are dead in the water and I am sure there are more. If serial numbers 423, 421, and 419 are on this forum and i were them I would be concerend!!! Maybe it is a coincidence but maybe not.

mm-pro · Post by **mm-pro** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:33 pm

When my 73 failed, the first thing that happened was the attacks of notes played, but the sustains didn't play. I tried to reboot and got the boot failure message. I then tried to boot from the DVD and that didn't work, though I knew the DVD player worked previously. I opened the instrument and swapped out the RAM. Everything went back to normal. I put the old RAM back in...boot failure. Put the new RAM back in, buttoned up the case and it has been working fine since.

Regards,

MM

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:45 pm

Bdeon28, you say the replacement SSD you tried wasn't recognized.
Did it have "slow enough" specs to be recognized? I remember someone tried a fast latest generation SSD not working, but got it working with a SSD with slower specs (I don't remember the technical terms for the latest speed, but you probably know what I mean).

This, plus taking RAM out and in again has worked with some.

I feel a bit stupid giving this kind of advice, but I guess it can't get more stupid than Korg not telling us open direct and clear cut, on their site or the US site, what this fuss is about and how to cure it. Do they seriously think that lots of people will send in their boards for weeks, one by one, without spreading the news and - willing or not - bringing the sales completely down to the bottom???

Korg Japan's role in this matter is becoming increasingly bizarre at this point, and if they don't show up very fast(!) with a public explanation and a fix for all Kronos users who run into that, they can just as well forget about making any impression at Namm. I find it unbelievable how they let all their good reputation slip away like nothing. Just incredible!

Dan, Rich, I don't want to bother you so short before Namm, and I know you need backing from the central management. But somebody has to react! Something has to happen when the house is burning! The fire alarm is out too long already, now some real fire brigade is needed fast!.

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:09 pm

mm-pro wrote:When my 73 failed, the first thing that happened was the attacks of notes played, but the sustains didn't play.

To me, this points pretty convincingly to a SSD failure, rather than a RAM failure. The attack portion of each streaming sample is held in RAM, whereas the post-attack portion is read from the SSD (and buffered whilst the attack portion is playing).

If it was the RAM that failed, it would not manifest itself so uniformly in so many cases as preventing the machine from booting up. We would see a myriad of different symptoms, rather we are predominantly finding machines that aren't booting.

The Kronos has a first-generation SSD, and it seems to me more likely that we would see widespread failure of a first-generation technology than widespread failure of tried-and-tested DDR2 RAM. which is very mature and robust.

In your case, I think it may be coincidental that reseating the RAM has allieviated the issue. But all of these are just guesses, I don't have any first-hand experience with any of these symptoms or problems (touch wood).

I wonder if the Toshiba SSD implements TRIM, or whether wear-levelling is being handled by the SATA controller/software?

operaman · Post by **operaman** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:46 pm

I have replaced the RAM and SSD in mine. I am number 112. I am hoping it stays solid. We will see.

For what it is worth it seems like RAM or SSD failures mainly. It was another reason I went with an Intel SSD and put in lifetime warrant Patriot DDR2 RAM myself.