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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:52 pm
by EvilDragon
Bechstein sounds completely different than both American and German Steinway, you could hear it at 128 kbps MP3.
No, it's not a Bechstein.
Re: Kronos Piano sound v.s Kurzweil PC3 v.s Yamaha Motif XF
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:11 pm
by NewKorgKeys
I own a Roland fantom g8 and I have tweaked and tweaked the piano sounds which were supposedly samples of a NY Steinway D (they sound nothing like it). While the motif xf is a step above, I am trading the fantom in for the Kronos. Kronos even via Internet has the best keyboard piano sounds I've heard on any board. Its quite obvious the piano sound is the most difficult one to duplicate accurately but I believe Kronos is the closest.
Re: Kronos Piano sound v.s Kurzweil PC3 v.s Yamaha Motif XF
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:33 pm
by kday
pillbug wrote:kday wrote:
The thing is, all Korg sounds have that in your own words "maybe it's the tone and character of the Grand Piano being sampled." feeling to them.
Last time I checked, if you buy an actual piano, it's always going to kind of sound like that piano, i.e. "the same"... no?
When you buy a real piano it'll probably sound like a real piano.
When you buy a workstation synth it's probably going to sound like to a varying degree a piano. The greater details depends on the brand and type of keyboard.
Of course the digital piano models will always sound better then synthesizer pianos, regardless how much you pay for the synthesizer.
I don't care how much you pay for a Kronos, the piano sounds are still not gonna sound better than then their dedicated digital piano keyboards that cost $2,000 - $5,000 dollars.
But as far as synth brands for piano sounds go, I think the Alesis Fusion had the best piano sound I ever heard in a keyboard synth. But their piano sound was imported from a 3rd party piano sound set, so that's why it was the best sounding, while most manufactures try to create their own which is usually less than perfect in comparison to 3rd party sound sets. But out of the big 3, Roland has the most accurate sounding piano to my ears. But the cold sound of Roland digital converters leaves still a lot to be desired. Yamaha has a good warm piano that sounds excellent as a solo piece but the warmth gets muddled in a mix. The Korg piano sounded thin and like a digital copy of a good piano, which many say is typical of the Korg PCM sound set and most all Japanese brand of synthesizers, in comparison to their American and German counterparts.
Re: Kronos Piano sound v.s Kurzweil PC3 v.s Yamaha Motif XF
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:34 pm
by EvilDragon
kday wrote:I don't care how much you pay for a Kronos, the piano sounds are still not gonna sound better than then their dedicated digital piano keyboards that cost $2,000 - $5,000 dollars.
Not really, because none of their dedicated digital piano keyboards have a 4.7 GB of piano samples (for just one piano sound)...
Re: Kronos Piano sound v.s Kurzweil PC3 v.s Yamaha Motif XF
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:37 pm
by kday
kday wrote:pillbug wrote:kday wrote:
The thing is, all Korg sounds have that in your own words "maybe it's the tone and character of the Grand Piano being sampled." feeling to them.
Last time I checked, if you buy an actual piano, it's always going to kind of sound like that piano, i.e. "the same"... no?
When you buy a real piano it'll probably sound like a real piano.
When you buy a workstation synth it's probably going to sound like to a varying degree a piano. The greater details depends on the brand and type of keyboard.
Of course the digital piano models will always sound better then synthesizer pianos, regardless how much you pay for the synthesizer.
I don't care how much you pay for a Kronos, the piano sounds are still not gonna sound better than then their dedicated digital piano keyboards that cost $2,000 - $5,000 dollars or even more.
But as far as synth brands for piano sounds go, I think the Alesis Fusion had the best piano sound I ever heard in a keyboard synth. But their piano sound was imported from a 3rd party piano sound set, so that's why it was the best sounding, while most manufactures try to create their own which is usually less than perfect in comparison to 3rd party sound sets. But out of the big 3, Roland has the most accurate sounding piano to my ears. But the cold sound of Roland digital converters leaves still a lot to be desired. Yamaha has a good warm piano that sounds excellent as a solo piece but the warmth gets muddled in a mix. The Korg piano sounded thin and like a digital copy of a good piano, which many say is typical of the Korg PCM sound set and most all Japanese brand of synthesizers, in comparison to their American and German counterparts.
Re: Kronos Piano sound v.s Kurzweil PC3 v.s Yamaha Motif XF
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:30 pm
by Zeroesque
kday wrote:When you buy a real piano it'll probably sound like a real piano.
When you buy a workstation synth it's probably going to sound like to a varying degree a piano. The greater details depends on the brand and type of keyboard.
Of course the digital piano models will always sound better then synthesizer pianos, regardless how much you pay for the synthesizer.
I don't care how much you pay for a Kronos, the piano sounds are still not gonna sound better than then their dedicated digital piano keyboards that cost $2,000 - $5,000 dollars.
But as far as synth brands for piano sounds go, I think the Alesis Fusion had the best piano sound I ever heard in a keyboard synth. But their piano sound was imported from a 3rd party piano sound set, so that's why it was the best sounding, while most manufactures try to create their own which is usually less than perfect in comparison to 3rd party sound sets. But out of the big 3, Roland has the most accurate sounding piano to my ears. But the cold sound of Roland digital converters leaves still a lot to be desired. Yamaha has a good warm piano that sounds excellent as a solo piece but the warmth gets muddled in a mix. The Korg piano sounded thin and like a digital copy of a good piano, which many say is typical of the Korg PCM sound set and most all Japanese brand of synthesizers, in comparison to their American and German counterparts.
I think it's one thing to offer opinions and debate which sounds are closest to real for you, but to then say it's because of converters or country of origin? I don't think that makes much sense. After all, correlation does not imply causation. I would say that the instrument being sampled, the room it was in, the mics and equipment being used, the engineers on the session and the subsequent processing that the samples went through -- not to mention the synth architecture and programming -- might affect the tone a little bit more than simple geography or A/D/A.
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:01 am
by rocklandpiano
The PC3 can do it all. Even when using only the factory programs, this machine oozes with class like no other. It would be equally at home on Radiohead's Kid A recording sessions as it would on a Joni Mitchell folk record. It has a true warm vintage soul, back when synths had true class. It is an ART MACHINE!
The PC3 is not "a pain to use." Navigating, editing programs and sequences is extremely logical and well laid off. The interface is very much like a Korg: easy, no nonsense and logical.
The programming can be perversely deep but the hard part is the programming itself (when you don't have experience or knowledge which sadly I don't yet have myself)not navigating and finding the parameters, everything is so easy to find, editing is a breeze.
I'm very glad the PC3 has a "small monochrome screen" if that means it keeps the price reasonable. And even before the price drop due to the overstock, the $2000 price of the PC361 was still a true bargain compared to the others in my opinion.
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:30 pm
by kanout
If you think piano sound,you have to consider NORD KEYBOARDS too.
The kronos ssd streaming don't mean natyrally they have the best piano.
I don't think a roland RD700 nx or a yamaha CP1 are inferior piano.
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:55 pm
by andreidelait
AFAIK the pianos from Kronos are German (Steinway), Japanesse (Yamaha) and Austrian (Boesendorfer).
In my opinion the Austrian one is the best from Kronos but it's an optional library that you have to pay for.
As you mentioned before it dependes by taste if the kronos pianos are the best for a workstation.
Yes I also like the Kurz and NORD ones.
The main important thing with the ssd streaming is if you have a good piano VSTi, you can try to resample it for your Kronos and maybe you can reproduce the same sound.
IMHO any keyboard in the market will have something that you need and your keyboard doesn't have it.
Good Luck
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:31 pm
by JPWC
You guys are full of it, the good stuff that is.
No two pianos sound the same.
You have too decide which one you prefer.
I find myself jumping from Kronos to Motif to Krome to JP 80 for piano patches. The sound I want depends on the application or song at hand, matched with the most appropriate piano patch sound, has nothing to do with the brand name or even the model of the synth.
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:50 pm
by Scott
People don't even agree about which real grand piano sounds better than which, so there is always a sense of personal taste... even some Steinways will sound better than other Steinways, and people won't always agree there on which is which. Then, even if you start with a grand piano whose sound you like, two different companies' sampling of it could be very different just based on where they placed the mics.
So yes, the bottom line is that all you can do is play them for yourself and see what you like. Size isn't everything, there are so many variables in piano sampling. The Kronos may be 4.7 gb, but I'm with Kanout here. I actually prefer some of the pianos from Nord, Yamaha and Kawai.
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:24 am
by burningbusch
andreidelait wrote:
The main important thing with the ssd streaming is if you have a good piano VSTi, you can try to resample it for your Kronos and maybe you can reproduce the same sound.
Absolutely. I purchased the absolutely wonderful True Keys library last week and have autosampled all three of the pianos into my Kronos. I sampled at 12 velocity layers, each note sampled, no loops. They sound fantastic. The Kronos has made obsolete the idea that you are dependent on the manufacturer for your sounds. Now you can go way above and beyond.
Busch.
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:41 am
by Scott
burningbusch wrote:andreidelait wrote:
The main important thing with the ssd streaming is if you have a good piano VSTi, you can try to resample it for your Kronos and maybe you can reproduce the same sound.
Absolutely. I purchased the absolutely wonderful True Keys library last week and have autosampled all three of the pianos into my Kronos. I sampled at 12 velocity layers, each note sampled, no loops. They sound fantastic. The Kronos has made obsolete the idea that you are dependent on the manufacturer for your sounds. Now you can go way above and beyond.
I'm looking forward to trying this myself!
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:32 am
by jeremykeys
A few things here. I grew up learning to play on a Gulbransen upright. It was huge and gorgeous sounding. That is the sound that I'm used to after having played it for 20 or so years. I could make that piano do anything.Unfortunately it got damaged in a flood. A water pipe in the ceiling burst open and rained water down onto and into it for a whole day. The sound board cracked. Poo!
I guess what I'm getting to is that as far as the Kronos piano sound goes, I like it but for those who don't, well, I guess they always have the option of using something else. Perhaps a Muse box of some variety.
Has anybody compared Ivory II to the Kronos?
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:19 am
by andreidelait
In my opinion Ivory got a few patches that are much much better then the Kronos Pianos.