Post NAMM Blues

[Sharp]

You buy an M3 based on what it can do at that moment in time, you don't when you buy an OASYS.

Just a note: when I comment on this, I tend to say exactly the opposite: buy based on what it does now. In my opinion, that's the only reasonable approach to any tech product.

Best regards,

Dan

Hi Dan.

Not to twist your words, but to just put a different spin on this. By saying that your technically not elevating the OASYS above the status of any closed product KORG make.
So you wouldn't take "Open Architecture Synthesis Studio" into consideration when making your purchase ?.

Regards.
Sharp.

[danatkorg]

You buy an M3 based on what it can do at that moment in time, you don't when you buy an OASYS.

Just a note: when I comment on this, I tend to say exactly the opposite: buy based on what it does now. In my opinion, that's the only reasonable approach to any tech product.

Best regards,

Dan

Hi Dan.

Not to twist your words, but to just put a different spin on this. By saying that your technically not elevating the OASYS above the status of any closed product KORG make.

On the contrary, I believe that what the OASYS does today (as well as at its introduction four years ago) is generally well beyond other Korg keyboard products.

So you wouldn't take "Open Architecture Synthesis Studio" into consideration when making your purchase ?.

In my opinion, *any* tech product should be purchased based on what the product does at the time of purchase. This holds for computers, media players (e.g. iPod), software, synthesizers, etc. Future updates are cool, but they are no substitute for doing what one needs to do today.

- Dan

[Kevin Nolan]

Just a note: when I comment on this, I tend to say exactly the opposite: buy based on what it does now. In my opinion, that's the only reasonable approach to any tech product.

Best regards,

Dan

Hi Dan.

Not to twist your words, but to just put a different spin on this. By saying that your technically not elevating the OASYS above the status of any closed product KORG make.

On the contrary, I believe that what the OASYS does today (as well as at its introduction four years ago) is generally well beyond other Korg keyboard products.

So you wouldn't take "Open Architecture Synthesis Studio" into consideration when making your purchase ?.

In my opinion, *any* tech product should be purchased based on what the product does at the time of purchase. This holds for computers, media players (e.g. iPod), software, synthesizers, etc. Future updates are cool, but they are no substitute for doing what one needs to do today.

- Dan

Actually Dan - I agree with you - that's a good, straightforward philosophy and I for one subscribe to it. I've been really hard hitting here on you and Stephen - I should not have made it quite as personal as I did - so I apologies to both you and Stephen for that.

I can't speak for others but personally felt more shocked than agrieved by Karma on OL; but actually - you are right - always looking to the future is partly what's causing frustration. Buy now, for what the instrument delivers now - thats a fair point and good philosophy. And boy do we have the mother of all instruments under our fingertips. We above all other instrument owners can say we got our money's worth on day one of our purchase. Open architecture might cause us to look to the future with hope, but Korg and Karma Lab are all square with us - you both delivered in spades even from OS V1.0

Kevin.

[Daz]

For the most part I agree with Dan regarding buying some technology items for what they are now, rather than what they might be in future. Specifically items that have a dedicated purpose like the quoted iPod et al., but I don't think it applies to all technology in such a clear cut way.

For example with something like the Oasys, even if you didn't assume there would be future updates explicitly, you did so implicitly by paying somewhat of a premium to cover the additional development costs incurred to make the Oasys open; to make it a 'platform for innovation' rather than just a monolithic dedicated application. The former being more expensive to code than the latter, I can tell you from experience.

Daz.

[danatkorg]

For example with something like the Oasys, even if you didn't assume there would be future updates explicitly, you did so implicitly by paying somewhat of a premium to cover the additional development costs incurred to make the Oasys open; to make it a 'platform for innovation' rather than just a monolithic dedicated application.

As has been discussed in the past, this is not the case. The OASYS was priced the same as any other Korg workstation, based primarily on the hardware cost.

Best regards,

Dan

[curvebender]

As has been discussed in the past, this is not the case. The OASYS was priced the same as any other Korg workstation, based primarily on the hardware cost.

Best regards,

Dan

I paid $13,000 for "primarily hardware cost"?..

Not that I ever regret getting the Oasys, it will stay with me forever, but still...

[danatkorg]

As has been discussed in the past, this is not the case. The OASYS was priced the same as any other Korg workstation, based primarily on the hardware cost.

Best regards,

Dan

I paid $13,000 for "primarily hardware cost"?..

Not that I ever regret getting the Oasys, it will stay with me forever, but still...

$13k seems like a lot, although I don't know how the pricing has worked in Sweden.

In answer to your question: yes, the OASYS was priced just like all other Korg workstations (Triton, M3 etc.), using a standard method based primarily on the hardware cost. Most musical hardware products, across the industry, will be priced somewhere between 3x and 5x the hardware cost. I've written about this numerous times over the past four years.

Best regards,

Dan

[Arend Groot]

Yes, a lot of stuff but useless to me. STR-1 is useless for guitars, come on, don't tell me that you can create a relistic guitar sound with that crap,

I'd recommend that you try playing with the Straits Solo Guitar, using the Vector Joystick for feedback, and JS-Y for mutes. I'm not aware of any sample library that can come remotely close to that level of realism.

Best regards,

Dan

Beside your comment Dan, I would like to mention that you can create the most insane out of space sounds with the STR-1. That's what I love about this one the most.

Though you can make good guitars, bells, electric piano's etc.

[curvebender]

$13k seems like a lot, although I don't know how the pricing has worked in Sweden.

In answer to your question: yes, the OASYS was priced just like all other Korg workstations (Triton, M3 etc.), using a standard method based primarily on the hardware cost. Most musical hardware products, across the industry, will be priced somewhere between 3x and 5x the hardware cost. I've written about this numerous times over the past four years.

Best regards,

Dan

A lot of money, yes. But Sweden has never been famous for it's low prices on instruments and electronics!! I just checked with the Swedish Korg distributor (emnordic.se), and the price is the same as when I got mine back in late 2007.

But there has to be some sort of standard pricing for Korg products around the world? I mean, when things like VAT and currency have been taken into account, right?..

Still, I don't regret my buy for one second. I love this machine!

[danatkorg]

A lot of money, yes. But Sweden has never been famous for it's low prices on instruments and electronics!! I just checked with the Swedish Korg distributor (emnordic.se), and the price is the same as when I got mine back in late 2007.

But there has to be some sort of standard pricing for Korg products around the world? I mean, when things like VAT and currency have been taken into account, right?..

Still, I don't regret my buy for one second. I love this machine!

In the USA, the minimum advertised price (MAP) is $8.5k for the 88, and $7.5k for the 76. I just looked around a bit, and when converted to dollars, it seems like European advertised prices are somewhat higher at the moment. I would guess that at least some of this is because of currency fluctuations.

- Dan

[Sharp]

Hi Dan.

On the contrary, I believe that what the OASYS does today (as well as at its introduction four years ago) is generally well beyond other Korg keyboard products.

True, and I'm not questioning that in anyway. It's your next sentence I find difficult to consider.

In my opinion, *any* tech product should be purchased based on what the product does at the time of purchase

I understand what your saying, and I have made many references to the fact that I totally agree with that idea when buying a closed system like an M3. It's when you throw the OASYS into the pot is when I have a problem with this. You simply can't ignore the advertisements and talk of an open system and future developments when buying the OASYS.

It's the heart of the sales pitch and one of the reasons that make it so special.

No point in banging on about this though so I'll leave it at that. My points have been made clear enough in this thread and in many others as to why I believe the company policy that applies to all KORG products should not apply to the OASYS.

It's my 2 cents so to speak, and I only hope it makes sense. The OASYS is the ultimate workstation, but I do believe KORG's silence to what is an open product has hurt it.

Regards.
Sharp.

[Mike Conway]

I think Korg should be vocal, but Dan's sentence makes perfect sense to me. Expecting anything else is gambling. Most gear that you buy makes claims of being "expandable", from the soundcards and floppies of 80's synths/samplers, to the already mentioned VariOS, heck - even Peavey's DPM3 promised an end to obsolescence.

I was frustrated to see a new Fantom, Motif, Triton every 2 years. As soon as I bought the SY77, the SY99 was announced - I bought both of them, just like I had a Triton Classic and an Extreme! Keeping up with that cycle costs more than an OASYS.

Four years later, we may have not seen the last update to the O. Those of us who have bought plenty of gear know that this is indeed a special situation. After all the irate OASYS PCI owners warned about there being no updates, the aging O is still trumping the latest NAMM offerings.

As for STR-1 and everything else on Dan's list of updates, I wanted and use ALL OF THEM! I was laying down a track with the STR-1's "Mandoloid Trem Pad", ironically. when Mauro posted that response. I agree, there could be more guitars, but fortunately the O rips directly from my Steve Stevens' Guitar Collection disc. I studied it; I knew what it could and couldn't do. I knew the sequencer and sampler were Triton based. You would be silly to spend 1000s of dollars and not know exactly what you were buying.

I'm going to post some new songs, soon. I'm right in the middle of scoring, using the OASYS and it's sequencer. The only external gear I'm running is a Virus TI, which is input right into the OASYS. I save my songs to a .wav file, pull out my jump drive and onto the soundtrack they go. Fantastic! I love that the PolySix, in unison mode (thanks for that, too!) sounds very Prophet-ish. I'm using quite a bit of MOD-7, too. I'm in heaven, right now.

I don't use much in the way of KARMA styles, but I love that it can do gate FX or trigger sounds through the vocoder. What other workstation (not Motif, Fantom or M3) can warp any sound you want through the FM and Physical Modelling engines?

This NAMM thread should be about how, years later, NAMM offerings still don't compete with this beast!! I'm going to do a little sucking up... Thanks, Dan, Jerry, Stephen and Korg! Thanks for going as far as replacing entire units for some people. Thanks for standing behind your work. Keep it coming!

[Synthoid]

In the USA, the minimum advertised price (MAP) is $8.5k for the 88, and $7.5k for the 76.

Actually, the 76-key has been available for under $6000 for awhile now. I was quoted $5100 last week from a local dealer.

[danatkorg]

In the USA, the minimum advertised price (MAP) is $8.5k for the 88, and $7.5k for the 76.

Actually, the 76-key has been available for under $6000 for awhile now. I was quoted $5100 last week from a local dealer.

MAP = Minimum Advertised Price. Selling prices (including individual quoted prices) may well be different.

- Dan

[Kontrol49]

I was frustrated to see a new Fantom, Motif, Triton every 2 years. As soon as I bought the SY77, the SY99 was announced - I bought both of them, just like I had a Triton Classic and an Extreme! Keeping up with that cycle costs more than an OASYS.

Perhaps the most relevant and sensible comment regarding buying into the oasys concept,I too have always bought the newest W/S (Korg only everything from M1 to Oasys)and this has cost me a lot of Money to stay relevant to the technology.Ok its an investment of sorts and I've kept them rather than sell at a loss just to stay up to date with the New editions,but with every new workstation that comes,it kind of covers the same ground but with very little progress from the last one,except for a few additional things that made it worth it.Enter the Oasys,the next level or was it/Is it

For me the Oasys seemed to be a higher plane of workstation with less things to become dated so easily and the Emphasis based upon keeping new things coming without the larger outlay of a totally new hardware instrument,suddenly the price didn't seem so wallet crunching if it was to last as long as it was perhaps predicted or regarded,Sadly it seems that Light is fading on its glory,given some of the comments.

I do beleive in order to keep things from becoming anarchic in the Oasys owners club Korg need to do something drastic or risk alienating a big slice of their customer base,this action will certainly affect customer values and future sales figures.

To many people the "Oasys" is slowly becoming a "Mirage" Has the Open concept finally reversed its actually intention and becoming Closed to those who bought into it with a false pretence,in all honesty I'm becoming fed up with the secrecy crap from Korg,I appreciate what we have so far,but is this really all they have to offer??Buying the hardware for what it does now is a complete farce as per Dans comments,I doubt anyone bought it lightly with it being out of support within a few years,The idea of expansion possibilities,would have been a major factor.We all know this is surely not as much as it could have to offer,but we're all being cast aside for some political Japanese red tape committee,its not a plan to blow up the world.

If that wasn't the case I would have stuck with my TEX and waited for the M3.

Just a Quote I found with regards to the Original Oasys

Software-based synthesis
OASYS(R) creates its synthesis and effects in software, not in hardware. This is the basic concept behind all of the OASYS(R) features.

So the ideology about buying the hardware now for what it is is relevant in some cases but this isn't what the Open architecture points to.... does it??!