Sweetwater should be crusified for this kind of behaviour!!!

[thrinithan]

UOPS My mistake too! I didn't notice that... we are awful people

[sparkie]

I seriously cant believe how anyone..Martin etc.. would defend Sweetwatre! How ignorant to even state such a thing!! Gawd, The man buys and TRUSTS Sweetwater to send a NEW M3 using his credit card, has it shipped to his uncles to be forwarded to UAE.

If the box showed signs of damage then YES his uncle should have inspected the unit. ..Sweetwater made the mistake and should be 100% accountable to do whatever it takes to either buy the unit back for FULL PRICE and pay the shipping charge from UAE and give him a $100 credit besides!! Sweetwater is a multi-million dollar retail company and supposed business people! If they dont, then I guess they dont give a damn about their reputation any longer!! Who knows as the M3 could have been a return also and why it was all beat up!
If he bought it from the store in person then yes he should have to take it back in person..But he didnt ..He paid Sweetwater to ship him a NEW IN BOX keyboard. Why would anyone even suspect it being used to open the box? Sweetwater totally screwed the man and sent him a used return POS ..and then had the balls to offer him a childish $200 rebate makes me want to gag!! This isnt like getting the wrong order at McDonalds!!
Martin ....Oh never mind! Ill save my breathe.

Sparkie

[kid_nepro_2002]

This isnt like getting the wrong order at McDonalds!!

Funny you should mention that. Did you see the news story the other day about the guy who got the wrong order at McDonalds and he drove his SUV right though the glass doors? Made a real mess of things. Luckily no one was hurt. I guess he really wanted fries with his burger!

Proton

[DrWho]

The more I think of it the more I think Sweet should make it right.

When you ship the customer anything other than what he asked for, you shipped him crap.

Never ship the customer crap.

If you ship the customer crap - then you get to pay for the customer to ship the crap back, and you get to ship the correct item(s) to the customer.

When you ship the customer crap - you will loose $$ on the deal - but will (hopefully) retain is customer.

What else does a place like Sweetwater have to offer over any competitor - it isn't price, it isn't choice of gear - it is customer service.

Consider this: To make amends - even if they credited him the full amount - would it impact their bottom line - NOT - in the noise (white or pink?)

It is true that since the do not ship internationally, they probably don't have any processes in place for that. So some sort of deal needs to be made here - it is the right thing to do.

If it were my company - I would pay for shipping to and from - and take the loss - and go figure out why this crap happened in the first place - and fix it.

Never ship crap to the customer.

Never ship crap to the customer.

Never ship crap to the customer.

[sparkie]

Never ship crap to the customer.

Never ship crap to the customer.

Never ship crap to the customer.

How true..you know after reading the story..it was their little lamebutt $200 offer that got me. As if thats a real big amount.??. $200 isnt even a 10% reduction..and who in there right mind would take a used M3 with scratches and wear just to save $200, when they expected a new one. Maybe Martin would?
Sweetwater has done this before as I read something a while back on Harmony Central from a similiar situation. If they cant keep track of their inventory then I suggest they hire someone competent who can. I am also surprised Korg isnt speaking out either..as this makes Korg look bad for using Sweetwater as a distributor. Businesses need to be accountable for their mistakes and stop trying to screw over good customers selling them used gear someone else returned at retail prices. The guy should call his credit card company for a refund and pack a Yamaha PSR in the M3 box and send it back to Sweetwater and see how they like it!

McDonalds suck ..they couldnt get an order right if you paid them $10 for a Big Mac Meal. They supposedly "double check" orders and still screw them up. Nice little worthless sticker they put on the bag though. French Fries are always upside down.
My last Taco Bell drive through order for 4 soft shell tacos ended up in the trashcan. I opened the bag at home and all 4 of them were out of the wrappers in a damn big gloppy mess at the bottom of the bag..


Sparkie

[MartinHines]

$200 isnt even a 10% reduction..and who in there right mind would take a used M3 with scratches and wear just to save $200, when they expected a new one. Maybe Martin would?

I wouldn't take $200, but that IS how Sweetwater prices demo units (just look at "demo" listings on their website). The problem with this whole situation is that A2zee shipped the keyboard out of the country. When HE did this (Sweetwater did not, and does not sell outside of the U.S.) he took away the OTHER remedy, which was a replacement.

If I had the same, identical problem with Sweetwater tomorrow and they gave me two options ($200 refund or replacement) I would pick replacement. Sweetwater IS offering to replace the keyboard -- i.e. pay for free return shipping from the location where Sweetwater shipped it. However, A2zee is not willing to spend the money to ship it back to the U.S.

Businesses need to be accountable for their mistakes and stop trying to screw over good customers selling them used gear someone else returned at retail prices.

Sweetwater OFFERED TO REPLACE THE KEYBOARD!!!!!

-- Sweetwater shipped the keyboard to some address in the U.S. (A2zee's Uncle's house)
-- Sweetwater has offered 2 solutions (1) $200 partial refund, (2) free return shipping and replacement to/from the exact location to which they shipped the keyboard (A2zee's uncle's house).
-- If you were a U.S. based customer (which you are supposed to be) and didn't like Option 1, you would simply pick Option 2.

It IS an unfortunate incident here, but you seem to completely ignore A2zee's PARTIAL RESPONSIBILITY in all of this -- he RESHIPPED the product to a SECOND LOCATION in the U.A.E.!!!!

Imagine a different situation. Let's say I have a friend who lives in Moscow, and I buy some product from a Moscow-based store and have it shipped to my friend in Moscow, who then re-ships it here to me in the U.S. If I discover the store made some type of mistake (e.g. sent me a demo, sent me the wrong product, etc.), that Moscow store is FULLY responsible for absorbing all costs simply because they made a mistake? I wouldn't expect that at all.

I have suggested that A2zee write Sweetwater's owner and see if he can get a more satisfactory resolution, but there HAS to be SOME RESPONSIBILITY borne by A2zee since he re-shipped the keyboard to a location outside of the U.S.

The guy should call his credit card company for a refund

Credit card companies are great advocates for their card holders, but what do you think the credit card company will do in this situation?

After understanding all of the facts in this case, the credit card company will tell A2zee to ship the keyboard back to the U.S. (at his expense) in order to get a refund.

People seem very quick to criticize and condemn companies, but I am always an advocate for fairness to all parties concerned.

Sweetwater definitely screwed up, but it is my opinion that A2zee accept some responsibility in this -- no one forced him or authorized him to re-ship a U.S. purchased keyboard to another country.

[GregC]

$200 isnt even a 10% reduction..and who in there right mind would take a used M3 with scratches and wear just to save $200, when they expected a new one. Maybe Martin would?

I wouldn't take $200, but that IS how Sweetwater prices demo units (just look at "demo" listings on their website). .

whew

Martin, when I start my own business, I will hire you to run the Customer Service Dep't

[sparkie]

Martin. your a definite clown!! The guy has been a customer of Sweetwater for 2 years. It doesnt matter what he did with it or where it was delivered to.. He trusted Sweetwater to send him a NIB keyboard and they didnt. PERIOD!! They took his order didnt they.. and I am sure they know he lives in the UAE. They sent him a used piece of dog crap! As a supposed reputable company and distributor of Korg products they should pay him a reasonable offer..such as at least 20% of the retail price....or sell him one at invoice or do what it takes to make it right!! PERIOD!! $200 isnt the invoice discount and is a slap in the face after screwing him. I am sure the shipping company wouldnt charge Sweetwater very much for a keyboard return. Especially since they have an account and get a substantial shipping discount. A2zee
did "absolutely nothing wrong" and shouldnt be responsible OR ACCOUNTABLE for receiving a used keyboard.
Martin, do you think he would have reshipped the keyboard to UAE if he knew is was a used piece of crap and not new as he ordered? Anyone would be pissed if they bought a $2800 keyboard from a Korg Distributor, opened it up and found it was used!!

It looks to me Sweetwater probably doesnt really give a damn since they havent resolved it yet! WHAT CUSTOMER SERVICE THEY HAVE and why hasnt KORG done anything to help?? Hello?? Do they care who sells and distributes their product.. or not?? Out of about 6 or so transactions with them I have had my fair share of aggravation a couple times also!! Anyone ordering with them knows communication with them and getting exactly what you ordered is a crap shoot.
Sparkie

[Tiayviel]

Actually I had a very similiar situation..

In the end, there's absolutely no reason for them to pay for the UAE shipping.

The contract between the buyer and the seller was to ship to the US. Period. Nothing beyond the target destination interests them. They have the right not to give a damn where it was shipped later on, because none of these costs were consulted with them, nor did they agree on such item handling -- so whyever should they pay that?

Yes, they made a mistake. They're human as well. They immediately offered to reimburse the item (covering shipping prices from the contracted adress) or money. It's the buyers fault that he shipped the item further on without checking it - end of story. So now it is his business to ship it back to the place where the delivery was made, for them to pick up and replace with a sparkling new item and apologies, rebates, bonuses etc.
I often export/import in such a way, and would never ever think of blindly passing the package on, no matter what the state it was in.

I feel sorry for him, and "Never ship crap to the customer." is the most true statement ever (not to mention the shitty 200$ price discount for a demo item - it's their rules though) but still, none of this would be a topic of discussion if he checked the item before sending it further for insane amounts of shipping money on his own responsibility - Sweetwater had it ink on paper: US shipping destination.
It's your right, and even obligation, to check the item when it arrives at the contracted location when buying from a online store.

They should help the guy out for the PRs though.

[sparkie]

Tiayviel,..why would he want to inspect it before shipping it anyway? If the box is sealed, taped and secure I dont see the reason too! Why would his uncle untape and open up a box to check to see if he got a demo by mistake. Duh! He assumed it was a new unit, it was an M3 as written on the box so he passed it on, and had no reason to suspect anything! If the box had some damage I could understand it but not in this case. No retailer opens up ..or checks inspects the contents shipped from the factory before a customer gets it so why should he be any different? Do you think Sweetwater opens up all the equipment they receive to inspect it before shipping it to the customer? I dont think so..

Sparkie

[Tiayviel]

It's only common sense.. the unit might be internally damaged, part loose, anything could go wrong. First thing I do when I get a package is unpack it, plug it in if it works, and then think what else to do (or kick it back to the courier with a no-thanks). I know it's a matter of trusting a store and everything, but as they say, best done by yourself - it's not like perfect machines work there.

And I disagree with the "no retailer opens up" part.. I ordered a Ibanez Guitar Pack (sealed box from the manufacturer) from GuitarCenter once, and they called me to say that during the checking of the item before sendout, they found that the pegs were bent and they'll need to wait for the next shipment with my order. Fair enough.

However, only recently I ordered some stands. During checking it turned out they were store-used ones. Turned away, no drama, got new ones and a discount. However if I passed them on, there would be more problems I guess.

[MartinHines]

Martin. your a definite clown!!

I would appreciate it if you could restrict your comments to the actual TOPIC rather than throwing personal attacks.

It doesnt matter what he did with it or where it was delivered to..

Sure it does. By re-shipping the keyboard out of the U.S. A2zee effectively eliminated the option of replacing the keyboard, leaving him the "partial refund" option only.

Martin, do you think he would have reshipped the keyboard to UAE if he knew is was a used piece of crap and not new as he ordered?

Of course not. However, if I were going to "game" the system (to avoid paying a higher price in my home country) I would make sure I examined the product in detail before I re-shipped it out of the country.

Anyone would be pissed if they bought a $2800 keyboard from a Korg Distributor, opened it up and found it was used!!

I never said A2zee doesn't have the right to be upset. I would be upset also if it were me. Howver, I would also realize that I needed to bear some partial responsibility for the problem.

Out of about 6 or so transactions with them I have had my fair share of aggravation a couple times also!! Anyone ordering with them knows communication with them and getting exactly what you ordered is a crap shoot.

You (or anyone) definitely has a right to buy gear from whichever retailer you choose. I have been a Sweetwater customer for years (and probably have made at least 50 purchases from them) and they have always provided me with excellent service.

No retailer opens up ..or checks inspects the contents shipped from the factory before a customer gets it so why should he be any different? Do you think Sweetwater opens up all the equipment they receive to inspect it before shipping it to the customer? I dont think so..

Especially with expensive items, many retailers open boxes they receive if they are at all concerned they may have been damaged in shipment to them. This especially happens with items shipped in small quantities (compared to large orders received on wood pallets). Also, Sweetwater opens boxes to throw in their candy and the receipt.

Also, at least in the U.S., Korg USA will open boxes of some products to insert country-specific items (manuals, CDs/DVDs, Korg USA warranty form). I have ordered Korg keyboards (Karma, Triton Studio, TEX, OASYS) from different retailers and ALL of the boxes had been opened previously (at least enough to throw a documentation packet inside).

[Kerzwhile]

This is what I wrote over at Karma Labs:
This is a VERY sad situation and I cant believe Sweetwater would actually do this kind of thing! I almost went to work for them about 10 years ago instead I moved down to Florida where I am a manager of a mom and Pop type store! I usually refer Lots of customers to Sweetwater for things I dont stock or just cant get! Thanks for the heads up! NO more referals for them! Im sorry for your situation! Maybe try calling Korg US and dispute it with them!
631-390-8737 There has to be something done about this!!

[sparkie]

]Of course not. However, if I were going to "game" the system (to avoid paying a higher price in my home country) I would make sure I examined the product in detail before I re-shipped it out of the country.

What you would do is not the issue!

="Martin"]You (or anyone) definitely has a right to buy gear from whichever retailer you choose. I have been a Sweetwater customer for years (and probably have made at least 50 purchases from them) and they have always provided me with excellent service.

Great attitude! So In other words..piss on the customer, he can buy somewhere else from now on. Ill offer him $200 of the profit to keep the returned piecee of crap to get him off my back.
You know, their excellent customerr service is really PISS POOR if they cant settle or handle a simple "One Man" customer complaint to the satisfaction of him. They obviously dont need further business and cant even handle what business they have. Especially since he had to file his complaint on the forum to even get a response from them. Can you imagine how many dont know about forums to even post a complaint ..or wont go to the trouble? The man sounds sincere and honest as he just wanted to buy a damn newM3 keyboard he saved up and paid for. Instead, Sweetwater ships him either a return or some used piece of crap hoping he wouldnt probably say anything since they knew he was overseas. Again we are not talking about a CD or set of guitar strings..Its a $3000 keyboard. A big difference.

]Also, at least in the U.S., Korg USA will open boxes of some products to insert country-specific items (manuals, CDs/DVDs, Korg USA warranty form). I have ordered Korg keyboards (Karma, Triton Studio, TEX, OASYS) from different retailers and ALL of the boxes had been opened previously (at least enough to throw a documentation packet inside).

Since Sweetwater throws candy in the box. why didnt they inspect it and notice the problem BEFORE it left the dock.? Besides if it was a demo..it wouldnt have been already packed up. All the demos I have ever seen remain "on the floor" in music stores UNTIL they are sold that day. Another thing is that why would Sweetwater even be selling their M3 demo anyway ..since they are still selling them as a current Korg product. Demos are typically sold after a product is discontinued. Sounds to me as if they got caught pulling a fast one. The longer they take to negotiate a deal with him costs them valuable points as being a reputable business...especially anyone searching for Sweetwaters reputation.

If this poor guys story was posted over at Harmony Central..I would be willing to bet those guys would tear Sweetwater a new asshole!

Sparkie

[MartinHines]

All the demos I have ever seen remain "on the floor" in music stores UNTIL they are sold that day. Another thing is that why would Sweetwater even be selling their M3 demo anyway ..since they are still selling them as a current

Some retailers keep out a single demo unit forever, but other retailers like to sell off demo units when they start to look a little worn (car dealers do the same thing). Also, a "demo" could be a customer return or a unit used by Sweetwater themselves internally. The term "demo" is simply a way of denoting the product is not "brand new".

I just looked on Sweetwater's website and I see a Korg M3-73 DEMO listed for sale:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M3-73d/

So much for your "theories" regarding when and why retailers sell demo units.

If this poor guys story was posted over at Harmony Central..I would be willing to bet those guys would tear Sweetwater a new asshole!

Yes, everybody likes to complain about the "big, bad companies", but it doesn't mean they are correct in their thinking.

"Churlburt" posted a great analogy to this situation over at the KLF. I wish I would have thought of it.

If this M3 had been purchased at Guitar Center, no one would question having the return made at the store. No one would say "they have to drive it out to your house," and no one could argue with a straight face that they should drive it out of state if that is where you are now located.

Yes, Sweetwater dropped the ball by shipping a used unit. But the bigger problem here was caused by the Buyer's relocation, which Sweetwater had no part of.

Here are two more situations that highlight the problem of re-shipping a product overseas, and from my perspective, illustrate why A2zee has to accept partial resonsibiilty for the problem:

1. Korg USA free EXB-Radias promotion: since A2zee bought his M3 in the U.S. and had it shipped to a U.S. address, he is eligible to register his M3 in the U.S. and get the free EXB-Radias. Should Korg USA be obligated to ship his free item to the U.A.E.?

2. Warranty Repair: Imagine something breaks on his M3 that is covered by his 2-year Korg USA warranty. Given you could claim that any defect is "Korg's fault/Korg's mistake" (i.e. no fault of A2zee), should Korg USA be responsible for paying for shipping to and from the U.A.E. for warranty service?