korg m3 or oasys

[cfurlin]

It is huge. I played an M3 for two hours yesterday at the Guitar Center just to check out some of the Combi's and again I wasn't impressed. The Combi's themselves are fantastic a, but the sound quality is REALLY disappointing to me.

Me too, until I realized in the store that Guitar Center had the M3 hooked up to crappy speakers and the OASYS routed to a much better system. What a brilliant sell job to get people for spend the extra $$

Asked for a pair of headphones and did my own comparison. Came home with the M3.

I'm pretty pissed that GC would try to deceive me like that.

[Bubba]

I've actually witnessed that being done as well. It wasn't a GC but it was a very big music store that sold a lot of Korg gear. The Oasys was connected to some top of the line studio monitors and the M3 was hooked to a bottom of the line keyboard amp. You get the picture. I can't believe how good the M3 sounds through my AKG headphones.

[BADMANN]

i might try that next time i go too gtc i did notice that the oasys is hooked up too some nice monitors and the m3 is hooked up to guitar amps but the m3 is 24 bit compared too the triton extreme which was 16bit so im sure theres a great difference is sound quality in the m3 but isnt the oasys 32 bit?

[cfurlin]

i might try that next time i go too gtc i did notice that the oasys is hooked up too some nice monitors and the m3 is hooked up to guitar amps but the m3 is 24 bit compared too the triton extreme which was 16bit so im sure theres a great difference is sound quality in the m3 but isnt the oasys 32 bit?

I don't pay much attention to things like bit-depth, mainly because it has such a small effect on the final quality, IMHO. I recommend two books:

1. Handbook for Sound Engineers by Glen Ballou
2. The Master Handbook of Acoustics by F. Alton Everest

Also, keep in mind that all that wonderful material you are reading about the product (yes, even the specs) is written by a marketing team. Enough said.

Listen using several different sound sources and judge for yourself.

[cfurlin]

i might try that next time i go too gtc i did notice that the oasys is hooked up too some nice monitors and the m3 is hooked up to guitar amps but the m3 is 24 bit compared too the triton extreme which was 16bit so im sure theres a great difference is sound quality in the m3 but isnt the oasys 32 bit?

I don't pay much attention...

Oh, I forgot:

Music, The Brain, And Ecstasy by Robert Jourdain

And for those of you chem-heads....no, not the drug Ecstasy...

[MartinHines]

Me too, until I realized in the store that Guitar Center had the M3 hooked up to crappy speakers and the OASYS routed to a much better system. What a brilliant sell job to get people for spend the extra $$

Asked for a pair of headphones and did my own comparison. Came home with the M3.

I'm pretty pissed that GC would try to deceive me like that.

They are not purposely "trying to decieve you". I believe Korg created specific complete OASYS display systems which included a special/custom stand and specific speakers (Korg didn't want the stores to connect the OASYS to crappy speakers).

With most products (including the M3) the manufacturers leave it up to the stores to determine the monitoring system. Custom displays cost manufacturers/distributors more money (than just shipping the product) so they only create them for special situations (like the OASYS).

Rule #1 in music stores in the U.S. -- always take along a good set of headphones so you can make valid comparisions between products -- i.e. so you can take speakers/monitoring systems out of the equation.

[cotler]

IMHO, the best way to evaluate the different workstations is to spend some quality time with each, running through your favored "auditioning" headphones. I find my very portable AKG k26p phones to be a good "shopping for keyboards" companion.

That's better than leaving as crucial factor as "how does it sound?" to the setup skills of some kid with a high school diploma and a bad haircut (which covers both of my local Guitar Centers).

As for my M3M (with Radias), I've had it almost a month and I think the overall sound is outstanding. One of the first things I did when I got it home was to export the demo songs as wave files on flash ram, burn those files to CD with a Sony USB DVD burner, pop the CD into a good sound system and turn up the volume. The results reinforced my opinion from the music store, and that is Korg nailed the piano and drums. And as a long time MS2K owner I can't say enough nice things about the Radias card.

It all comes down to having a personal connection with an instrument. Any synth can have spectacular specs and be very cool and powerful, or it can be some old thing with less processing power than an Atari. But unless I can connect on a creative and emotional level it's not money well spent.

As for Kurzweil, it has its own sound well beyond the specified polyphony and ROM size. I owned a K2500 many years ago, and I would grab the K2661 in a hearbeat IF its price was in line with the age of the technology and the board's limitations. In my opinion, the K2661 shoud have a street price of 1,000-1,100 USD.

The first thing that Kurzweil's new owners did was jacking the prices on all of the old models, which doesn't inspire great confidence in the new management.

[Lorenzo]

In my opinion, the K2661 shoud have a street price of 1,000-1,100 USD.

that should be the price of it without the sound engine... just using it as a master. You can or can't like its sound, you can not like the OS but... let's say 500 as a master, 200 for the KB3 (the hammond clone) that many people don't like (but 200 is a fair price I think), 200 for the sampling capabilities, 300 if you use it as an effect processor (24 bit with wonderful effects, I'm not talking about sounds here, but effects, and it's objective that kurzweil kdfx effects ARE good enough) capable of optical input output as adat (8 tracks)... well we are at 1200... now this without considering rom that you can't or cannot like (but I can assure you that in the CD you like there is soooo many kurzweil sounds that you can't imagine), and the VAST synth engine that is a far superior VA than many other VA out there...
I payed mine 1900€ that is very cheap here in Italy, but I would have payed something more for it's potential.

[Lorenzo]

anyway, just to clarify, kurzweil is a really difficult and complex keyboard that lets you do many things the other simply can't... (try to slave a v-synth XT with a triton as a master.... , or try to put more than 10 layers of sounds in a program...). The problem with kurzweil isn't the price range, is that people think they have to use it as a classical workstation. They should make course about useing kurzweil K series and release a licence to put your hand on one of them... I think that only a few in this world would own one

[KingJ]

The M3 sounds good, and it has some sounds I'd love to have, but the overall sound quality isn't as good as the Yamaha Motif ES or XS in my oppinion. However, the Oasys, especially with EXs3 and MOD7, is in the same league with the Synclavier, the best synth ever made. Listen to Mike Conway's demos of the Oasys. Wow! The HD1 sample playback engine in the Oasys alone now has more sample RAM than even the Motif XS, and all of the Oasys's samples are uncompressed, so they sound clearer than most synths out there. Not only that, but the Oasys also has many different methods of synthesis, including physical modeling, virtual analog, organ modeling, and FM, in addition to it's sample playback. I considered the M3M, but after I heard the Oasys, my heart is set on getting one when I get the money. I already have a Motif and a Tyros2, so after I get the Oasys, I should never run out of sounds and inspiration. I know this is the M3 forum, but I have to say that a lot of people have complained that the M3's build quality is very poor. However, the Oasys is built solid, like a tank.

[GregC]

T I know this is the M3 forum, but I have to say that a lot of people have complained that the M3's build quality is very poor. However, the Oasys is built solid, like a tank.

well yeah, the Oasys is how much ?

BTW, I don't agree with the folks that make comments about the M3 ' build quality'

1) they don't own the M3
2) they didn't build the M3
3) they are possibly repeating what others say


Now if they are gigging and concerned over the appearance of the M3 after repeated rough handling, cigarette burns, drinks on the M3, that is possible.

[KingJ]

T I know this is the M3 forum, but I have to say that a lot of people have complained that the M3's build quality is very poor. However, the Oasys is built solid, like a tank.

well yeah, the Oasys is how much ?

BTW, I don't agree with the folks that make comments about the M3 ' build quality'

1) they don't own the M3
2) they didn't build the M3
3) they are possibly repeating what others say


Now if they are gigging and concerned over the appearance of the M3 after repeated rough handling, cigarette burns, drinks on the M3, that is possible.

Hello Greg. The M3 I tried in the store was the M3-88, and everything on the M3-88, except the sliders and buttons, felt pretty solid to me. However, I've heard many people say that the M3 doesn't have the best build quality. To me, even though the M3-88 felt solid, it didn't feel quite as solid as the Yamaha Motif XS8, but I do like the key action on the M3-88 better. Even though the keys are weighted, they feel lighter, and easier to play. I just prefer the Oasys's sound and build quality over the M3. The drums are great on the M3 though.

[drama1]

Just putting my 2 cents in this conversation, but I have the M3-73 and I personally believe it has the potential to be a killer board when new programs are released. The programming is aimed at the WOW factor when you hear it in the store. For live players, right now it is sorely lacking in combis and programs in re to bread and butter sounds. The build quality, sorry Korg, but IMHO you are going to have to handle this board with kid gloves. On the M3-73 there is no bottom. There's an aluminum bar that goes across the bottom and the cable connecting the keybed to the module is exposed. I can just imagine one of our roadies getting his dirty little hand caught in the cable. The other HUGE drawback in the M3 is the slow screen draw for live performance. When you hit one of the program or combi buttons there is a VERY noticible delay and sound cutoff when changing programs/combis. Even the Triton is faster in changing programs/combis. The Oasys is lightning fast. That's why Rudess can get away with just using one board. There is only a split-second when changing programs/combis on the Oasys. To me the Oasys and M3 sound like Korg synths. I've checked them both out extensively and to my ears the Oasys is certainly better sounding, but the difference simply is not that much different where I wouldn't even consider the M3 for my Korg needs, especially when new programs are released.

I notice Lorenzo mentioning Kurzweil. I have the PC2X. For live performance you can't beat it as far as changing programs or combis. It is every bit as fast as the Oasys and even better because it has seamless program/combi changing, which I believe makes for a MUCH more musical passage when changing sounds. The sounds of the PC2X is dated and you have to be an engineering genius to figure out programing the damn thing. Kurz will be releasing the PC3 soon and almost sounds too good to be true. I will certainly be checking that out when it is released hopefully in a 76 key version.

I hope Korg is able to do something with the slow screen draw on the M3 because I really like the board, but I'm still using my Triton-Pro for live performance, even though the M3 is a cut above the Triton sound-wise. I know, I know, use two boards. I'm old and I'm not lugging an extra board just because I can't get quicker program changes. I know there's no perfect board, but to me a lot of this is just common sense. I want a board that sounds great, which most do, loads of programs for live performance, seamless patch changing, 88 weighted keys, and only weighing about 25 pounds. I just may have to attend NAMM and hope.

[KingJ]

The build quality problem is not just in the M3 either. The Yamaha Motif XS6 and XS7 is not built near as solid as the ES6 and the ES7, and there are still a lot of unresolved bugs in the Motif XS's OS. The XS8 is built just as solid as the ES8, but not the XS6 and the XS7. I can tell you this because I have an XS6, and it just doesn't feel as solid as past Yamaha synths.

[Synthoid]

The first thing that Kurzweil's new owners did was jacking the prices on all of the old models, which doesn't inspire great confidence in the new management.

That surprised me as well.