Korg Forums

kday wrote:

kday wrote:Fantom with V2.0 OS Multi-sampling may be blowing everybody out of the water now. In the sampling department, no workstation can compete for ease and user friendliness in creating quick multi-samples programs.

But then again, Roland Fantoms have always been the king of Sampling Workstations since day One.

I take that back.

After trying out multi-sampling in the Fantom V2.0, it sucks in comparison to the Kronos.

You can't actually multi-sample in Fantom V2.0. You only can import samples to create the multi-sample programs. Fantom only allow you to sample one sound to the keyboard at a time, then you have to save it to memory, then reload it into a multi-sample. With Kronos you can create multi-samples quick and easy right there in virtual memory on the spot. The only downside to Kronos sampling is they eliminated sample editing on the sample page and transferred sample editing to the loop page which is tedious and laborious.

Yeah, it’s a manual process which requires some time as I discovered.
I have to admit the Fantom did not turn out the way I hoped it would, the sequencer still has only two time signatures to choose from, no linear way of sequencing like the Kronos, and the sampler could benefit greatly from a couple of improvements.
I think January will be the moment of truth with the next update. IMO the 2.0 update (which was a great step forward) turns the Fantom in a 0.9 version when it comes to workstation capabilities.

Many are still hoping for KORG’s next move, taking the Kronos to the next level, but I think Greg may be right and Korg will come up with a KRODX before they will replace the Kronos.
The complete absence of a competitor and the fact that the Kronos still sells well aren’t really incentives to bring out an up to date and improved Kronos.
But man, how I wish they would.

V2.0 is an unfinished version with a lot of basic standard functions missing that are on even their cheapest Workstations. So I know they'll eventually update 2.0 with more multi-sample features to give it at least all the basic multi-sample functions of all their previous Keyboards.

I hope Kronos upgrades from the current Kronos model when they release, and now with the Fantom and probably a new Yamaha something coming soon, buyers will have choices, and I'm sure Korg already have a new Kronos finished or nearly finished somewhere down the pipeline gearing for release in a year or two. Even tho they don't release yet, they still complete the production process. But they could offer a Limited Edition reissue of the current model offering little to the original.

kday wrote:
and now with the Fantom and probably a new Yamaha something coming soon, buyers will have choices,

a new Yamaha ''' ? "

what type Yamaha product or keyboard ?

or are you making a general comment.

Thanks

Mostly conjecture, but I've seen and heard enough from various sources to be convinced Korg will have a new synth released before EOY, potentially a Kronos replacement.

spottingjonah wrote:Mostly conjecture, but I've seen and heard enough from various sources to be convinced Korg will have a new synth released before EOY, potentially a Kronos replacement.

part of my skepticism [ and opinion] is the exact same statement has been made every year for the past 3 years.

And if Korg was trimming , or winding down on hand Kronos unit inventory at retail and thru its distribution chain, I would readily agree with you.

This is a way of saying ' follow the money '.

GregC wrote:

kday wrote:
and now with the Fantom and probably a new Yamaha something coming soon, buyers will have choices,

a new Yamaha ''' ? "

what type Yamaha product or keyboard ?

or are you making a general comment.

Thanks

Yeah, I making a general statement. I believe Yamaha will have a Motif successor coming sometime in the future, maybe within 2-3 years that will be more of a full fledged Workstation. Motif XF was their biggest selling Workstation they ever created. Montage was a synthesizer, and not the Motif successor nor a real Workstation. Yamaha isn't done with making true Workstations, especially after a highly successful series in Motif.

Korg won't be releasing a new Kronos for another 1-3 years.

kday wrote:

GregC wrote:

kday wrote:
and now with the Fantom and probably a new Yamaha something coming soon, buyers will have choices,

a new Yamaha ''' ? "

what type Yamaha product or keyboard ?

or are you making a general comment.

Thanks

Yeah, I making a general statement. I believe Yamaha will have a Motif successor coming sometime in the future, maybe within 2-3 years that will be more of a full fledged Workstation. Motif XF was their biggest selling Workstation they ever created. Montage was a synthesizer, and not the Motif successor nor a real Workstation. Yamaha isn't done with making true Workstations, especially after a highly successful series in Motif.

.

as a new MODX owner, I am gaining perspective. BTW, I admire the strides Yamaha has made in the past 2-3 years.

my guess is that the majority of Motif owners have migrated to Montage/MODX. For example, I am enjoying some of the XF Motif performances on the MODX.

I have no data to support my 'guess' on the majority of Motif owners. On what they think/plan , etc.

IMO, MODX ticks almost every box.

The MODX has been Yamahas biggest selling synth for 10 years. The montage is still having large updates and so don't see them replacing it very soon as they are selling quite a few units since the v.3.0 and v3.5 updates. The need for what a workstation was 10 years ago is very different and demand is less than it used to be. Manufacturers do research their market the fact both Roland and Yamaha have a flagship workstation that doesn't resemble having a fully blown DAW inside says the majority ofnthe market now use a DAW in the studio for writing and mainstage for live.

Its hard to say what Korg will do an update is needed but at the same time they still sell a lot off units for Kronos.

skinmechanic wrote:The MODX has been Yamahas biggest selling synth for 10 years.

That's pretty impressive, given that it was released about 2 years ago. Or maybe you meant "in 10 years".

StephenKay wrote:

skinmechanic wrote:The MODX has been Yamahas biggest selling synth for 10 years.

That's pretty impressive, given that it was released about 2 years ago. Or maybe you meant "in 10 years".

here are the top secret sales figures. [[[sshhhh}}

Oasys 34 bazillion

Yamaha MODX 53 gabillion

Kronos. 152 catrillion

GregC wrote:

kday wrote:

GregC wrote: a new Yamaha ''' ? "

what type Yamaha product or keyboard ?

or are you making a general comment.

Thanks

Yeah, I making a general statement. I believe Yamaha will have a Motif successor coming sometime in the future, maybe within 2-3 years that will be more of a full fledged Workstation. Motif XF was their biggest selling Workstation they ever created. Montage was a synthesizer, and not the Motif successor nor a real Workstation. Yamaha isn't done with making true Workstations, especially after a highly successful series in Motif.

.

as a new MODX owner, I am gaining perspective. BTW, I admire the strides Yamaha has made in the past 2-3 years.

my guess is that the majority of Motif owners have migrated to Montage/MODX. For example, I am enjoying some of the XF Motif performances on the MODX.

I have no data to support my 'guess' on the majority of Motif owners. On what they think/plan , etc.

IMO, MODX ticks almost every box.

I think most of the MODX owners are probably new or former Montage or older original Motif owners. If you own a Motif XF, which Yamaha touted as their biggest selling synth in their history, you would lose some significant features migrating to either the Montage or MODX. I personally don't think either surpassed the sales of the Motif XF. The Montage was promoted as a synthesizer and I believe the MODX also. But the biggest selling so called workstation keyboards are normally full Workstations with multi-sampling, and Korg Kronos lineup confirms the full workstation number one sales record. If Korg ever reduce features on the next Kronos from a full Workstation to just a synthesizer with sample import functions, like what Yamaha did with the Montage, their sales output will take a significant nosedive. As being able to live multi-sample and record your own sounds and library is a very significant selling point for a Workstation. When it comes to keyboards, I would never buy another keyboard now, if it doesn't allow you to sample your own sounds. I have the Kronos 2 that can take me out for another 20 years considering I can sample my own library. The only reason I buy a new workstation is because I keep thinking that live multi-sampling would become easier as touch screens become more common.

I don’t get the whole sampling feature in a workstation anymore..

I prefer sampling in a convenient computer environment, and then having an easy way to upload those samples into a workstation.. something like samplerobot makes life so much simpler for me..



When you look at the Fantom it looks like they try to cram in a feature that it doesn’t really have the processing power for.. just because the user base demands it..

Bachus wrote:I don’t get the whole sampling feature in a workstation anymore..

I prefer sampling in a convenient computer environment, and then having an easy way to upload those samples into a workstation.. something like samplerobot makes life so much simpler for me..



When you look at the Fantom it looks like they try to cram in a feature that it doesn’t really have the processing power for.. just because the user base demands it..

Sampling in the keyboard is much faster and easier to sample sounds then having to go to a computer, when they implement it right, like on sampling keyboards and drum machines like MPC X or ASR-10. People like a single unit they can carry around. People don't want to have to carry a computer everywhere they carry their keyboard just to operate it with sampling features. The only reason I buy Workstations is because of sampling features. I wouldn't waste $3000 every 4-5 years to get a few more of the same exact sounds. As a producer type, I need instantly sampled sounds loaded on the keyboard for instant triggering for instant loops to make beats and vocals sampled to trigger chorus lines. I like to use these "sampling" workstations to make instant songs, more than just playing in a band or playing a single sound one at a time. For the $3000-$4000 kind of money they're asking for keyboards now, without a sampling engine they would not be worth it to me.

Yesterday Roland released upgrade 2.1

They added the 4 synth models from the Jupiter X to the Fantom..

The Fantom has now virtual models of jupiter 8, Juno 106, JX 3p and SH 101 available...

Combined with its incredible interface, does this make the Fantom surpass the Kronos as the perfect heart of a studio or live setup?

I find it hard to justify why I would like to buy one.

Given it’s unable the stream samples, it’s sampler memory is simply not acceptable by any stretch of the imagination for my needs.

Every sound it has to offer is more of a tribute to Roland’s past over the last 30+years. That’s ok, but..... meh... my integra 7 fills that gap for me. Why should I drop over 3 K on this synth? Ultimately that’s my problem. I can’t see any reason to justify it when I have the integra 7 and a KRONOS.

Regards
Sharp