Korg Forums

ando727 wrote:I've had my Kronos for about 9 months now and have found the thing so damn intimidating, I've barely looked under the hood. Every time I do, I am baffled and stressed! So I've tended to stay away from making my own sounds from scratch because I never get anywhere near where I want to get with it. I mostly just use presets. I can fiddle with the piano engine ok - at least that makes sense to me. This thing just feels so unintuitive, I can't connect with it. (O)n the Kronos I'm so lost in the infinite number of parameters and routing options. I'm starting to think I made a mistake in getting this thing. I find myself stressed to the point of switching the thing off instead of making music. And I'm not a fool with tech stuff, I can get right into Windows, Android and Mac. I just don't know what's going on with this thing. Is there any way to learn this thing from first principles - starting with nothing and building up sounds? Am I too stupid for this thing? Maybe I should just quit while I'm behind and just get a digital piano...Has anyone else ever felt like this with their Kronos? Did you get past it? If so, how?"

Friend, I am SO with you on this. I've been a professional, touring musician and had a two-decade career as a software developer. Put another way, computer technology does not intimidate me. And yet, having owned my Kronos for more than three years, I am STILL unable to use this machine beyond selecting presets. Owning this keyboard has been incredibly frustrating. Everytime I try to do something new I end up completely perplexed and wondering what in the world I was thinking about when I bought this keyboard. I purchased a tutorial DVD set. I've watched YouTube videos galore. The guides are, for the most part, useless. I suspect this keyboard was developed for Jordan Rudess and other musicians at his level of technical expertise. It was certainly not developed for people like me. Thank you for posting.

I'm sorry that some of you have become frustrated trying to program your Kronos. I have a good grasp on the HD1 engines and the synth modeling engines but the string modeling engine and the FM generator have me pretty much baffled. That's ok with me though. If I truly need something from those engines there are a few different sources for those sounds. I bought the Karma software but I really haven't spent a lot of time learning to program with it.

HD1 is the same model of workstation synthesis that Korg has been using since the M1. It just has all the extra parameters to do even more. I spend a lot of my time with this since I've worked with various Korgs since the M1 and I'm very comfortable with the methods used. The analog modelling sythesis methods make sense to me too since I've worked with these synths since the late 1970s.

I understand the differences between programs and combinations since that has been a part of Korg workstations since the M1 too. I love the effects and the way they do effect chaining.

But it is a complex machine and everyone is not going to "get it". Some people will live with the presets and maybe buy some sounds they want. There are some really good programmers out there so you can find a lot of different patches.

I would suggest that you start out by tweaking sounds to get what you want rather than trying to program a sound from the bottom up. It might be easier to learn from that method. The manuals are a great resource but it does take some work to find your way around them. I downloaded and studied them for a few months before I bought my Kronos. Of course there is this also this forum and some great videos to help you figure it all out. Just take the learning experience in smaller chunks and it should be much more rewarding.

There are some people who thought that the Kronos was the ultimate arranger keyboard and became quite frustrated when they found out that the Kronos was not designed for that purpose and is not any where as easy to program as those keyboards. It is not the ultimate keyboard for everyone. Figure out what you want in a keyboard and buy that one. Korg (and other manufacturers) has some much simpler keyboards that might be what you are looking for. But if you have the time, patience and drive to do it, programming the Kronos can become rewarding.

GPatrickBryant wrote:

ando727 wrote:I've had my Kronos for about 9 months now and have found the thing so damn intimidating, I've barely looked under the hood. Every time I do, I am baffled and stressed! So I've tended to stay away from making my own sounds from scratch because I never get anywhere near where I want to get with it. I mostly just use presets. I can fiddle with the piano engine ok - at least that makes sense to me. This thing just feels so unintuitive, I can't connect with it. (O)n the Kronos I'm so lost in the infinite number of parameters and routing options. I'm starting to think I made a mistake in getting this thing. I find myself stressed to the point of switching the thing off instead of making music. And I'm not a fool with tech stuff, I can get right into Windows, Android and Mac. I just don't know what's going on with this thing. Is there any way to learn this thing from first principles - starting with nothing and building up sounds? Am I too stupid for this thing? Maybe I should just quit while I'm behind and just get a digital piano...Has anyone else ever felt like this with their Kronos? Did you get past it? If so, how?"

Friend, I am SO with you on this. I've been a professional, touring musician and had a two-decade career as a software developer. Put another way, computer technology does not intimidate me. And yet, having owned my Kronos for more than three years, I am STILL unable to use this machine beyond selecting presets. Owning this keyboard has been incredibly frustrating. Everytime I try to do something new I end up completely perplexed and wondering what in the world I was thinking about when I bought this keyboard. I purchased a tutorial DVD set. I've watched YouTube videos galore. The guides are, for the most part, useless. I suspect this keyboard was developed for Jordan Rudess and other musicians at his level of technical expertise. It was certainly not developed for people like me. Thank you for posting.

I think some new owners have to approach the Kronos with a blank slate. Applying mac or Windows stuff is going to get in the way of learning.

If one has owned a triton before, that knowledge helps. But if the Kronos is your 1st Korg W/s a thoughtful training/learning approach is needed.

Like most new things, and exercise is a good analogy, start out slow and basic.
Learn 1 mode at a time. If you will never use the SEQ, skip that mode. Get good at navigation. The Korg Kronos video manuals are very good at breaking it down.

I sometimes wonder if some expect to immediately jump to Jordan Rudess level programming or program 40 pop songs for the gig next week end. I don't believe thats a practical approach and it would be frustrating to have that expectation.

As already mentioned, start with simple things and try tougher stuff later. I have mine since less than a month and it's really fun.

In the previous months, I recorded the best sounds of all the gear I had to sell to fund the Kronos big expense. Recently completed a couple of one-sample-for-all-keys sounds on the Kronos to resuscitate my Ensoniq Mirage and it works. It actually sounds better on the Kronos with all the available effects I can add.

Later, I'll create multisample sounds from other recordings I did. So instead of trying a multisample and ending up unable to do it, I begin with very simple things. Next time, I will have better chances to achieve a good multisample sound. Wish I had more time to spend on it.

I can understand the frustration of some of you, but really you should be proud of yourself that you all had the guts to buy a workstation with 9 !! synths in it.

It's not a matter of learning one synth, no you have to learn how to handle all 9 synths and how they are interact together. That will take a lot of time.

This is not a workstation that you will understand in one evening. But as soon as you accepted the fact that you have to learn the kronos workflow and the 9 synth engines indepth if you want to create or modify your own sounds then you can start learning the specific area's that you need.

So my advice would be, start with:

first introduction with the kronos:
- changing beween programs, setlists, combis (how to change between them). For instance there are still quite some users that don't know that there are extra program banks when you press the I-A and U-A together (or I-B and U-B, etc).
- create your own setlist
- create a split sound combi, like bass on the left hand, piano on the right hand
- saving and loading sound sets

After those basic features you can at least use the factory sounds or downloaded sounds in your projects. Then it's time for phase 2


Phase 2:
it depends on what you want, but as soon as you need something just focus on that specific area, like sampling, creating combis, programming your own sounds, using KARMA, using Midi files, backing tracks, etc...

So for instance, let's say you want to program a lead or pad sound, there are two ways for this. Modifying existing sounds or program them from scratch. Both methods are described in tutorials online, so just pick the one you like and try it for yourself.

If you want to focus on the KARMA engine, then don't start programming KARMA, but first just use existing KARMA patterns on other sounds (you can even copy the complete programming across sounds), and as soon as you understand the basics then dive in to the programming of KARMA.

The same applies for combis. Just start with layering sounds, for instance a piano plus strings in the right hand and the bass in a keyzone on the left hand. That's enough to start with and once you are familiar with the basics of combis then you could start with the KARMA patterns.

Sampling is one of the most wanted features by people, but it's also the most complex one on the Kronos. As long as you don't know the basic features of the Kronos, stay away from the sampling possibilities.

So most importantly, don't try to graps all the features at once, take your time to learn the features that you need the most.
And i can't say it enough: Start with the Basics !!!

I'm under the impression that some of you try things that are too complex to start with. Normally that wouldn't be a problem on one synth, but in this case you are handling 9 synths at once. So the first thing you need to learn is the basic interface and handling. By doing this you will constantly make progress and you will see that after a short time things will make much more sense.

There is a lot of material explaining how to do things and you can always ask an explanation for a specific feature you need on this forum.

And don't forget, learning is fun as long as you make progress. Every day i learn new things when i work with the kronos, so the possibilities of the kronos seems to be endless, and the journey is as much fun for me as the end result .

I perfectly understand how you feel.

I'm not frustrated. I know what I've bought.
I can't spent too much time with Kronos and I'm new to Korg so I know it will take me about 10 years to master it. I'm getting there step by step.

Once I realized that, frustation is gone. I'm just a patient guy and I really love Kronos possibilities.

Hey guys, I appreciate all the responses and advice!

Let me just say that I had/have no expectations of Rudess-like command of this thing. I just got very stuck trying to do what I thought would be very basic tasks, based on what I used to do on my Korg T1 (basically a big M1). I found the T1 so easy and intuitive to use, I kept looking for the same method of making sounds that I used to use. Of course, it's 25 years later - the technology has changed. I'm sure all the things I did on my T1 are still in there - I've just been having a devil of a time finding them and separating them from all the other stuff.

I have been playing around with modifying some sounds - with a limited amount of success. I'm no closer to making the patch I mentioned in the OP, but I'm getting an idea of a few things. There are many more modes than I can comprehend at the moment.

I get programs, combis, setlists. That wasn't hard. Modifying the piano engine is easy. Karma is very mysterious to me - I have no idea what's going on there! I want to use the sequencer, and have dabbled with it. But I'll obviously have to master making sounds a bit more before I get into that. Damn it, I wish the sequencer had a piano-roll editor! I hate that it's missing. That is something I assumed would be there in a large colour screen workstation! I should have checked, I guess... But my main frustration is creating the sounds that I imagine in my head.

Thank you for pointing out how to get to HD1 - that is a lifesaver! I'm able to make a sound that is maybe 25% towards what I'm after...Slowly, slowly, I guess. I hate the bank restriction that divides sounds between HD1 and other engines. I really can't imagine why that was necessary or a good idea. I would like to save all the sounds, from any engine, in one bank of user sounds - but obviously that's not going to be possible. Why Korg?

Anyway, thanks again. I still feel rather at sea with this thing. But I am getting the occasional glimpse of dry land on the horizon...

ando727 wrote:Let me just say that I had/have no expectations of Rudess-like command of this thing. I just got very stuck trying to do what I thought would be very basic tasks, based on what I used to do on my Korg T1 (basically a big M1). I found the T1 so easy and intuitive to use, I kept looking for the same method of making sounds that I used to use. Of course, it's 25 years later - the technology has changed. I'm sure all the things I did on my T1 are still in there - I've just been having a devil of a time finding them and separating them from all the other stuff.

So if i understand correctly you know how to program sounds on the T1 and M1. In that case, just start with the HD-1 Engine, it looks a lot like programming sounds on a M1.

If you want to know how to specifically program Jordan Rudess Leads, then there is a lot of material you can study:

General sound design guide for the Jordan Rudess Lead
http://www.keyboardmag.com/create-sound ... ynth/29451

A video set that explains how to program the snarly pig lead
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=92541

A free Jordan Rudess Lead sound by Enigmahack that you could study to see how he did it
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=97613

A paid fantastic Lead sound set from Dan Stesco called Most Wanted Leads
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... p?t=101421


So if you are really into this stuff there is a lot available on this forum that should keep you started.

My KX88 was my first Korg product (except for a Krome which I held onto for less than a month) - had it for almost 2 years now. It is a very deep instrument indeed, and my advice would be: *read* the parameter guide. I read all of it BEFORE I purchased the K! Then read it again. It's actually quite good! - but takes some patience 'cause it's a LOT of pages, but definitely worth the effort.

In all, I've had very few problems finding my way around. And every day dicsovering more.

Patience and some perseverance. And Qui's videos. And this board if you have specific question.

Good luck!

ando727 wrote:

I get programs, combis, setlists. That wasn't hard. Modifying the piano engine is easy. Karma is very mysterious to me - I have no idea what's going on there! I want to use the sequencer, and have dabbled with it. ...

i consider Karma a ' mode ' in itself. Some things are easy to edit. Beyond that, and after burning some days on self training, I needed advice. Diving into Karma is an intermediate topic. I think its important to see that the Karma version on the Kronos ( it is dated, a Korg decision) has some limits.

Anyway, Qui's videos are very helpful. Stephens M3 Karma videos are very reasonable and useful.

The Kronos certainly is a complex piece of kit. Combined with a somewhat unintuitive interface, it can be a daunting challenge.

My strategy was to establish a baseline - take what I knew from my Triton and other synths and learn to recreate it on the Kronos. This meant that I could focus on learning the revised mechanics, rather than learning new concepts.

Once I felt comfortable achieving what I knew from other synths on the Kronos, then I began branching out and exploring the new features and possibilities.

Thanks again to everyone who has responded. I'm going through all your suggestions gradually, trying to find my feet.

I decided to face the dragon again. Today I attempted to replicate this sound:

http://www.progsounds.com/blog/monster-lead

The good news is that I managed to find a bunch of stuff that had previously eluded me - things that made me feel a bit more like I did on my old T1. Unfortunately I wasn't able to reproduce the sound properly. The basic tonality was there, but it was missing some important elements in terms of the feedback layer, LFO filter, EG, and just the general vibe.

I decided to save it where it is after about 90 minutes of fooling around. Hopefully I can discover something I've missed to get it the rest of the way. I wish there was some library where I could just go find this sound and be done with it!

Anyway, I haven't given up. I'm still battling. I hope I'm able to make it through this maze and have some control over it sometime in the next couple of years. I really hate playing presets! So it's important that I can learn to shape my own sounds.

Meanwhile, if anyone has this Monster Lead patch - please pass it on!

This link may or may not help you with the monster lead sound.

http://www.progsounds.com/blog/monster-lead

jeremykeys wrote:This link may or may not help you with the monster lead sound.

http://www.progsounds.com/blog/monster-lead

That's the link I posted in the post before yours Jeremy. I based my attempt at Monster Lead off that page. My Monster Lead is more like "Amoeba Lead" there's nothing monstrous about it! I guess I've got a way to go before I nut out some things. It was still a worthwhile exercise just to figure out some things about using the HD1 engine. I can't figure out how to implement the so-called "feedback layer" at this stage. Also the wah effect is not working properly. Baby steps...

Thanks for thinking of me.

Cheers.

Can anyone tell me how to use aftertouch to control the loudness of a sound?I'm trying to trigger a sine wave to only come on when using aftertouch. I want zero volume on the sine wave when pressing the key normally. I've been trying to do it in the Amp section with confusing results. I can sometimes get aftertouch to make it a bit louder, but I seem to need the Amp Level slider up at least somewhat or else I get no volume in aftertouch. Is it something to do with setting different EGs for normal key press vs aftertouch? If so, where would I find this?