Kronos 61 Keybed disappoints-rant

[RMW]

Also, at the website, if you scroll down to the b&w picture of the B3 with the engineer sitting in the background, (section entitled; Roger Wood Artist Songs /…. there are 5 songs there. Listen to #5 called ‘Gone Churchin’ as opposed to Gone Fishin that B3 sound was done in Logics Pro using the virtual Hammond sounds tweaked and layered for beef and emotion. So the moral is, you can achieve the Hammond sound from a digital clone (and even mixed it in your face) but it requires a controlled (studio) environment. IMO.

[RMW]

4 Octave FS keybed with controls. Used with my modular synthesizer.
(Never been able to upload an image here...probably just me)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vfu88fnvabl2u ... g?dl=0[url][/url]

Geo, that is a sweet synth! Very nice job on the finish as well. I have a little wood shop in my basement and mess around with finish hobby stuff so I respect the craft- good lookin! …but the cool thing is it has an FS Keybed! …and you made your own customized synth! Respect!

[Derek Cook]

I was also disappointed with the Kronos 61 initially. Now, I'm fine with it. You're right about the Yamaha FS keybed. Likely the best action for synths ever made. Sadly, Yamaha stopped making it some time ago. Likely too expensive. I wish it could be an option. This price for the competitive keybed or this higher price for the better keybed. But, if it isn't made any longer what can you do.
I service Yamaha products and over the years accumulated several of those keybeds. I built two MIDI controllers using them. I always knew the value and held onto them just for that reason. I still have a 76 note keybed hoping to finally use it in a newer controller.

Geo

ROSHH regulation killed the FS keybed and the lead weights in it to get the weighting. As If I am going to dissemble my keyboard and start licking the lead!

[voip]

The density of steel isn't too far behind lead. Just need to put in a 50%, or so, biger lump in. Or use tungsten, which is much more dense than lead.

.

[jorgemncardoso]

In the fall of 2019 I purchased my Korg Kronos online, I really wish I had tried out the Keybed feel before purchasing… I had been a triton and triton studio user exclusively since they came out and absolutely loved the Keybed feel/action! I mistakenly thought that the Kronos being the upgrade of the triton line would also use the same Yamaha FS Keybed, logical right? I knew that the marketing language said “semi-weighted” but these keyboard manufacturers have interchangeably been using these terms “synth action/semi-weighted action for years, so I assumed Korg wouldn’t change one of the most critical aspects of the triton line as so many users we’re professionals, but I was wrong. But I kept my Kronos because it is such a wonderful beast, but to this day I still don’t like the Kronos Keybed feel/action. I kept using my triton studio as my main board in my double keyboard setup. Now I need to replace my triton studio and I’m looking at the Yamaha Montage to get a different manufacturers tones for more sonic options, but mainly for that same Yamaha solid, smooth and fast FS or FSX Keybed. Why would one keyboard manufacturer use another manufacturer’s Keybed in their flagship if it wasn’t that good? It’s it’s a synth, it needs to have “synth action”. Thanks for letting me rant!

Well, the last Korg to have the Yamaha FS keybed was the Oasys 76, and the last Yamaha to have it was the Motif ES.

Yamaha was forced to redesign the FS keybed due to the ROHS EU regulation on lead use, because of environmental factors. So Yamaha redesigned the keybed for the Motif XS series and the FSX keybed was born.
While it's not really the same as the FS both in built and in feel, it's still a great keybed. The reason to why Korg didn't carry on using that one i have no clue. Business policies i guess, and maybe their agreement changed at that point.

Korg started using the current semi-weighted keybed on the M3, and then on the Kronos. While i largely prefer the FS or FSX, the Kronos one it's not all bad.

But i actually disagree with the "synth action" statement. the FS wasn't a "typical" synth action. It was a great cross between synth action and piano action. It was great to play piano on as a semi-weighted keybed.
In your defense however, i'm talking about the FS keybeds MK1, the ones on the mid 80's to mid 90's Yamaha's and Korg's. The FS MK2 that started on the 01W Pro and Yamaha SY99, has slight changes like the holder point for the leaf spring being plastic and the bottom felt being different and harder, and the key travel being slightly shorter. I've always preferred the Feel of my M1/T3/01/Wfd, to the one on my Trinity and subsequent keyboards.

Not to mention the key contact mechanism being the ever lasting metal contacts, instead of that stupid PCB contact points and the rubber stripe with the "cups" and two contact points.
While not bad by design, it's nowhere near as durable and tough as the old FS system.
The Kronos keys are much lighter and flimsier, with a complete different feel


EDIT:

After that they just shoving the semi-weighted into synths. The exceptions were only certain high end synths, and that’s where I find myself today have to spend the extra $ to get the lush fat sounds AND the true “synth” action together. Anyhoo just really disappointed that they put “SEMI-weighted keys on the flagship 6 & 7. Why not just leave the weighted for the 88’s? Just my thoughts.

Wait a minute...
You are griping about the Kronos not having the FS keybed because you DON'T like semi-weighted keybeds on synths???

The Yamaha FS keybed IS semi-weighted!!! Always was.

The Kronos version of "semi-weighted" is much lighter than the FS.

I personally just hate typical "toy-ish" synth light action keybeds.

A real premium workstation/synth should have semi-weighted action

It baffles me that you like the FS action then...

[jorgemncardoso]

ROSHH regulation killed the FS keybed and the lead weights in it to get the weighting. As If I am going to dissemble my keyboard and start licking the lead!

LOL!!

It wasn't because of the end user of the keyboard's health. It was for the environmental factor of manufacturing products that used lead based parts, for everyone's health.
Same as most of the EU ROHS regulations.
Some are a bit dumb, but most have a point.

Yamaha had to comply if they wanted an ROHS seal on it

[RMW]

In the fall of 2019 I purchased my Korg Kronos online, I really wish I had tried out the Keybed feel before purchasing… I had been a triton and triton studio user exclusively since they came out and absolutely loved the Keybed feel/action! I mistakenly thought that the Kronos being the upgrade of the triton line would also use the same Yamaha FS Keybed, logical right? I knew that the marketing language said “semi-weighted” but these keyboard manufacturers have interchangeably been using these terms “synth action/semi-weighted action for years, so I assumed Korg wouldn’t change one of the most critical aspects of the triton line as so many users we’re professionals, but I was wrong. But I kept my Kronos because it is such a wonderful beast, but to this day I still don’t like the Kronos Keybed feel/action. I kept using my triton studio as my main board in my double keyboard setup. Now I need to replace my triton studio and I’m looking at the Yamaha Montage to get a different manufacturers tones for more sonic options, but mainly for that same Yamaha solid, smooth and fast FS or FSX Keybed. Why would one keyboard manufacturer use another manufacturer’s Keybed in their flagship if it wasn’t that good? It’s it’s a synth, it needs to have “synth action”. Thanks for letting me rant!

Well, the last Korg to have the Yamaha FS keybed was the Oasys 76, and the last Yamaha to have it was the Motif ES.

Yamaha was forced to redesign the FS keybed due to the ROHS EU regulation on lead use, because of environmental factors. So Yamaha redesigned the keybed for the Motif XS series and the FSX keybed was born.
While it's not really the same as the FS both in built and in feel, it's still a great keybed. The reason to why Korg didn't carry on using that one i have no clue. Business policies i guess, and maybe their agreement changed at that point.

Korg started using the current semi-weighted keybed on the M3, and then on the Kronos. While i largely prefer the FS or FSX, the Kronos one it's not all bad.

But i actually disagree with the "synth action" statement. the FS wasn't a "typical" synth action. It was a great cross between synth action and piano action. It was great to play piano on as a semi-weighted keybed.
In your defense however, i'm talking about the FS keybeds MK1, the ones on the mid 80's to mid 90's Yamaha's and Korg's. The FS MK2 that started on the 01W Pro and Yamaha SY99, has slight changes like the holder point for the leaf spring being plastic and the bottom felt being different and harder, and the key travel being slightly shorter. I've always preferred the Feel of my M1/T3/01/Wfd, to the one on my Trinity and subsequent keyboards.

Not to mention the key contact mechanism being the ever lasting metal contacts, instead of that stupid PCB contact points and the rubber stripe with the "cups" and two contact points.
While not bad by design, it's nowhere near as durable and tough as the old FS system.
The Kronos keys are much lighter and flimsier, with a complete different feel


EDIT:

After that they just shoving the semi-weighted into synths. The exceptions were only certain high end synths, and that’s where I find myself today have to spend the extra $ to get the lush fat sounds AND the true “synth” action together. Anyhoo just really disappointed that they put “SEMI-weighted keys on the flagship 6 & 7. Why not just leave the weighted for the 88’s? Just my thoughts.

Wait a minute...
You are griping about the Kronos not having the FS keybed because you DON'T like semi-weighted keybeds on synths???

The Yamaha FS keybed IS semi-weighted!!! Always was.

The Kronos version of "semi-weighted" is much lighter than the FS.

I personally just hate typical "toy-ish" synth light action keybeds.

A real premium workstation/synth should have semi-weighted action

It baffles me that you like the FS action then...

Yes I’m bitchin cause I don’t like semi-weighted synth action on workstations. Call the Keybed what you want, but there is no way you can compare the FS Mk1 Keybed to the semi-weight synth action of the Kronos. I’ve owned 4 tritons a couple were the studio models… they all had the same Keybed, there was no tripping as I moved over to each one over the years. And no I don’t believe that I and many others should not get to complain about flagship workstations all being semi-weighted synth action simple because that’s the way it is based on manufactures decisions that lead was causing global warming, so what about the plastic in the ocean then. Geeze. So roll them eyes all you want.

[jorgemncardoso]

Yes I’m bitchin cause I don’t like semi-weighted synth action on workstations. Call the Keybed what you want, but there is no way you can compare the FS Mk1 Keybed to the semi-weight synth action of the Kronos. I’ve owned 4 tritons a couple were the studio models… they all had the same Keybed, there was no tripping as I moved over to each one over the years. And no I don’t believe that I and many others should not get to complain about flagship workstations all being semi-weighted synth action simple because that’s the way it is based on manufactures decisions that lead was causing global warming, so what about the plastic in the ocean then. Geeze. So roll them eyes all you want.

Well i guess you didn't understood much of what i've said and explained...

Of course you can't compare the FS action to the Kronos action, the FS action is HEAVIER and beefier than the Kronos one. The Kronos action feels like a toy in comparison.
And like i've said, both the Yamaha FS and the Kronos keybeds are semi-weighted. Which means ALL your Tritons keybeds ARE semi-weighted, and you apparently love your Triton keybed that IS semi-weighted, yet you are ranting about how you hate the use of semi-weighted keybeds on flagship synths... Kind of ironic, don't you think?

Korg flagship keyboards had the same Yamaha FS keybeds from the M1 to the Oasys 76. To be even more specific, the M1, Wavestation, T3, T2, 01/W, 01/Wfd, 01/W Pro, i3, i2, i30, Z1, Trinity, Trinity pro, Triton, Triton pro, Triton Studio, Triton Studio pro, Triton Extreme, Triton Extreme pro, Oasys 76. I played them all except the Oasys.

I'm not saying you can't complain. By all means complain all you want, nobody is going to change anything because of it tho...

And while we're at it..., the new Yamaha FSX key action is just as semi-weighted as the FS or the Kronos one.

They are on all the current Yamaha flagships too, starting on the the Motif XS6, XS7, XF6, XF7, Montage 6, Montage 7.

So just rant all you want, but chill bro... No one is attacking you.

[RMW]

Yes I’m bitchin cause I don’t like semi-weighted synth action on workstations. Call the Keybed what you want, but there is no way you can compare the FS Mk1 Keybed to the semi-weight synth action of the Kronos. I’ve owned 4 tritons a couple were the studio models… they all had the same Keybed, there was no tripping as I moved over to each one over the years. And no I don’t believe that I and many others should not get to complain about flagship workstations all being semi-weighted synth action simple because that’s the way it is based on manufactures decisions that lead was causing global warming, so what about the plastic in the ocean then. Geeze. So roll them eyes all you want.

Well i guess you didn't understood much of what i've said and explained...

Of course you can't compare the FS action to the Kronos action, the FS action is HEAVIER and beefier than the Kronos one. The Kronos action feels like a toy in comparison.
And like i've said, both the Yamaha FS and the Kronos keybeds are semi-weighted. Which means ALL your Tritons keybeds ARE semi-weighted, and you apparently love your Triton keybed that IS semi-weighted, yet you are ranting about how you hate the use of semi-weighted keybeds on flagship synths... Kind of ironic, don't you think?

Korg flagship keyboards had the same Yamaha FS keybeds from the M1 to the Oasys 76. To be even more specific, the M1, Wavestation, T3, T2, 01/W, 01/Wfd, 01/W Pro, i3, i2, i30, Z1, Trinity, Trinity pro, Triton, Triton pro, Triton Studio, Triton Studio pro, Triton Extreme, Triton Extreme pro, Oasys 76. I played them all except the Oasys.

I'm not saying you can't complain. By all means complain all you want, nobody is going to change anything because of it tho...

And while we're at it..., the new Yamaha FSX key action is just as semi-weighted as the FS or the Kronos one.

They are on all the current Yamaha flagships too, starting on the the Motif XS6, XS7, XF6, XF7, Montage 6, Montage 7.

So just rant all you want, but chill bro... No one is attacking you. [/quote

Bro listen closer- when they made them take the lead out of the FS bed, and replaced it with the FSX bed it clearly was not the same feel. That’s why the triton doesn’t feel anything like the Kronos- and vis-a-versa, everyone knows this. All of the marketing language jargon of semi-weighted/synth-action is Symantec’s, you cannot feel the difference in the language labeling, but you can feel the difference in the 61 triton Keybed and the 61 Kronos Keybed. That is the all I ever said in the first place. Finale.