Kronos / Workstation Recrording/Sequencing Workflow

amit · Post by **amit** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:11 pm

Got Kronos2 few days back,
I have a lot of experience on computers / Daws but null on workstations.

I'd like to learn more of the workstation features and thought process behind it's sequencer, like basic workflow, on how would one approaches writing a song and it's different parts, the tools that this/these workstation provides to facilitate the workflow etc., any online resources, tutorials are welcome too.

I'd like to start writing/trying a simple blues or EDM type song , to get the hang of it but not sure where to start.
There's RRPR and drum track etc. which I haven't yet looked into much.

TIA

amit · Post by **amit** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:13 am

Did i ask something i shouldn't have? Or is everyone too busy with their kronos?

RichardTRelayer · Post by **RichardTRelayer** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:48 am

A few ramblings for you. I too am new to kronos and have spent a lot of my time learning to load/save avoiding disasters but recently decided I should exlore the sequencer. Early days but I would be inclined to stick with with my DAW for serious recording because editing seems easier also I would rather kronos processing power was focussed on generating music rather than recording it - note the posts on freezes using seq. RRPR looks fun and maybe handy live but wave sequences looks more attractive to use once properly programmed.
I love the auto song feature, particularly the fact it selects the next free song so you can have many takes with minimal button pressing and activate very quckly. This only works if write protect for songs is not set in global - I keep everything else protected in case I do some thing stupid or my PC editor has a brainstorm (I love my back ups) and it makes me think twice before I edit progs/combis. The beauty of songs is kronos boots with empty song slots and you can then save anything useful and the crap gets deleted on the next reboot. If worthy I would then export the MIDI or simply record the audio into my DAW.
There are probably some useful tutorials around but I haven't looked yet, this is one case where JFDI following the manual is working well for me.

pete.m · Post by **pete.m** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:51 am

Hi Amit,

No, you didn't ask something you shouldn't have - I think it's more the case that there are so many possible answers that people could give, not all of which would suit your way of working. For example, you mention RPPR and Drum Tracks, but I have yet to use those functions. For me, my method is simply to start with a sound, or an idea of a sound. If it has any resonance for me, then I can go on and make a song that might involve any number of different approaches that may end up teaching me something new.

So my point is that it is actually in making the song that I get to know the Kronos, rather than the other way round. My personal advice would be to simply hit a key and see where it leads you - the detailed technical knowledge you want will come as a result of following your creative instinct. If you get stuck, there's always the 'help' button to the right of the touchscreen, the manual, and - not least - the contributors to this wonderful forum who have taught me so much.

As for online resources, etc, there are loads - just explore the internet, and this forum too. For example, one of the best contributors to the forum has also been kind enough to post some excellent tutorials and donate some fresh sounds on youtube. Do take a look at his stuff - search for Qui Robinez.

Lastly, you'll need to accept that it will take a long time before you run out of things to learn or explore on the Kronos. I hope that you'll have a lot of fun getting there. Happy exploring...

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:43 am

Hi Amit,

Honestly if you have a lot of experience with DAWs I expect you'll find really frustrated on a workstation. While it is definitely handy and inspirational to have a fixed but broad set of good sounds to work with, you'll run into a lot of walls if you're looking for common DAW editing operations.

jeremykeys · Post by **jeremykeys** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:40 am

I usually start with a drum track first. It gives me something to play along with.

amit · Post by **amit** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:35 pm

Thx guys,
I did record something by hittin some magic combo that copies combi to sequencer, but that I think is more of a quick record thing and improvisation, than a planned methodology.

I got the kronos as I haven't been able to gel with Daws in over 20 years,Yes they are great and generations better /flexible but for me are non inspirational and always end up working on knobs and stuff rather than playing.

I would like to put in most of the stuff in the keyboard itself and then export final as an audio track.

on another note,
I tried using a daw (sonar) with keyboard set as usb soundcard, however, when I record audio, the sonar metronome records too. Am wondering if there is any alternative routing idea floating around here.

secondly unless I use karma, I cannot slave the Daw to kronos (start stop etc) like with drum track. Maybe will have to program external controls to mackie type and have sonar be the master.

Jakker27 · Post by **Jakker27** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:45 pm

I've not sequenced that long on the Kronos but it's just best to throw something simple at it. Build up the right habits. Know your strengths.

The sequencer isn't that bad. I mostly create loops, then dub and if you need to make intricate changes - then you can always record another part of connect the kronos to your DAW and edit in a more comfortable environment.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:19 pm

Ok I was going by your "20 years of experience with DAWs". If you don't like them or feel they get in the way of your productivity by all means use a workstation. As things go the Kronos isn't bad, especially if you need audio recording.

jeremykeys · Post by **jeremykeys** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:50 pm

I haven't used the Kronos' sequencer in a while but I really like it. I wish there was an easy way to transfer the files with the IFX and other FX to Cubase. I'd really like to clear up space on my SSD.

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:33 am

The sequencer in the Kronos is a linear track sequencer, not the dissimilar to the likes of Cubase and Logic. If you have experience with these types of products, the Kronos sequencer should feel familiar, though naturally there will be differences in the features and user interfaces.

I am an advocate for using hardware-based sequencers, simply because I often prefer to work away from the computers and all the vagaries that accompany them. I use the Kronos sequencer regularly as a compositional tool as I find its integrated nature conducive to exploring new musical realms.

Here's a few random tips I've discovered for working with the sequencer:

- The latency of the Kronos, both in terms of audio latency and MIDI latency, is phenomenally low - I measured round-trip audio latency (in and out) at around 1.5ms. This makes it great for adding and monitoring real-time effects with external instruments. MIDI jitter is also extremely low. This is one area where the Kronos absolutely excels compared to PC-based solutions. It is seriously amazing.

- You can record tempo changes whilst recording simply by enabling an option. This allows you to use the tempo knob to record accelerando and calando movements very intuitively - something I've not found many PC based DAWs capable of.

- It's possible to use external MIDI sound modules with the Kronos just as you would with a PC. Simply daisy chain them to the MIDI Out port and assign each device a different channel, then set one or more channels to EXT mode. I regularly use my Kronos as the master sequencer for a myriad of external hardware (and occasionally software!) synths.

- The Kronos sequencer shares a lot in common with the Combination mode. This means that you can layer sounds, set keyboard and velocity splits and record the results directly into the sequencer. This is another area where I feel the Kronos excels - it can be really fun to create a layer of sounds, and perform in real-time, rather than trying to program and sequence many individual parts and tracks. I love being able to split the keyboard and being able to play a multitude of different parts whilst recording - it feels much more organic.

- The Kronos has a 16 track audio recorder, which is great for capturing vocals and external synths. Using a combination of S/PDIF and analogue, It can record four channels simultaneously - using the USB input as well, it can record six. External audio can be recorded at the same time as recording into the sequencer from MIDI devices. With the ultra-low audio latency, it's a viable solution to dedicated hardware effects units.

- For MIDI tracks, everything is recorded as MIDI - there's no separate "automation" tracks. All controller movements are recorded into these tracks. Because virtually all the parameters on the Kronos transmit and respond to Sysex, if you make any parameter changes whilst recording, these changes are recorded into the sequencer as well. This allows for some very interesting possibilities, such as being able to change FX routings midway through a song - something I'm not aware of any PC-based DAWs being capable of.

- Audio tracks can have mix automation recorded.

- You can always import and export Standard Midi Files from the Sequencer into your DAW for more refined editing.

- RPPR gives you some ability to take a pattern-based sequencing approach, thought its not as comprehensive for this purpose as the sequencer found on the Motif series, nor software packages such as Abelton. One advantage of using RPPR is that it allows you to edit a pattern once, and have that change apply to all instances where the pattern is used in your sequence. It also consumes less memory than using linear tracks exclusively.

Hope that's of some help! Good luck with your musical explorations!

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:27 am

How did you measure round trip latency? Because I can definitely feel some in the mic I hook up and loop through to output 2.

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:52 am

I measured it by creating a sine wave in my DAW, playing that from my PC to the S/PDIF in of the Kronos, then routing the S/PDIF in of the Kronos to the S/PDIF out and recording the results back into my DAW. Looking at the number of samples of offset and the sample rate, that gives the total system latency in milliseconds. Repeating the same test without the Kronos (looping the S/PDIF in to the S/PDIF out of the audio interface) gives the latency of the audio system.

Subtracting one from the other should therefore give the digital latency of the Kronos. However there will be higher latency on the analogue ins and outs due to ADC and DAC conversion.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:41 am

Yeah I meant the ADC/DAC latency. I was sure you could never get 1.5ms with that. Not sure when I'd have to deal with only the digital latency but that makes sense now, thanks!