Kronos boot problem

communitybfc · Post by **communitybfc** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:06 pm

I had posted earlier about the Kronos failing to boot on startup. This was happening for about a week and a half then everything was back to normal for a couple of weeks. Over the weekend the boot fail issue started up again. Earlier someone had suggested reseating the ram and checking cables so yesterday I opened the K, checked cables and reseated the ram, put it back together and started it up. The K booted 10 times without fail so I thought problem solved ..... Except this morning when I turned it on another boot fail, and again, and again. Do you think I'm at the point now where the service center is my only option? I'm long since past warranty so this will all be out of pocket. Thanks for any ideas.

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:14 pm

communitybfc wrote:I had posted earlier about the Kronos failing to boot on startup. This was happening for about a week and a half then everything was back to normal for a couple of weeks. Over the weekend the boot fail issue started up again. Earlier someone had suggested reseating the ram and checking cables so yesterday I opened the K, checked cables and reseated the ram, put it back together and started it up. The K booted 10 times without fail so I thought problem solved ..... Except this morning when I turned it on another boot fail, and again, and again. Do you think I'm at the point now where the service center is my only option? I'm long since past warranty so this will all be out of pocket. Thanks for any ideas.

It's a long shot. If you added the extra ram, replace that.

And exactly when in the boot process, does it hang ?

communitybfc · Post by **communitybfc** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:25 pm

No, I didn't add extra RAM so what's in there is factory. Is it possible that all of a sudden RAM went bad? Where it fails is that the red boot indicator reaches the end of the K then hangs up and I get a startup failed message. A couple of time it went a bit further but then quit and the screen went blank. Someone thought it might be a RAM related problem (corrupted maybe?) because it always turns on and at least starts to boot.

It kills me that I went about 3 years with no issue at all through all the software revs. Now the K decides to get finicky. Ugh!

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:21 pm

communitybfc wrote:No, I didn't add extra RAM so what's in there is factory. Is it possible that all of a sudden RAM went bad? Where it fails is that the red boot indicator reaches the end of the K then hangs up and I get a startup failed message. A couple of time it went a bit further but then quit and the screen went blank. Someone thought it might be a RAM related problem (corrupted maybe?) because it always turns on and at least starts to boot.

It kills me that I went about 3 years with no issue at all through all the software revs. Now the K decides to get finicky. Ugh!

So the boot up is locking up early? Like in 30 seconds ? If so, that might be a clue its hardware related. I doubt the factory ram would get flaky after 3 yrs.

Did you disconnect all your USB devices ? Is your power cable firmly plugged in , both sides ?

communitybfc · Post by **communitybfc** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:02 am

I guess around 30 seconds. The screen going blank and shutting down is more recent and far less common. Took all of the suggested steps of plugging, unplugging, and praying. And again tonight it booted up three times in a row but then on the fourth I had another boot fail message. I love the K but honestly my Motif ES8 has never failed to be reliable for over ten years. I would have said the same about the K being reliable up until a month ago but now... I'm just glad I don't depend on it for anything mission critical.

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:36 am

communitybfc wrote:I guess around 30 seconds. The screen going blank and shutting down is more recent and far less common. Took all of the suggested steps of plugging, unplugging, and praying. And again tonight it booted up three times in a row but then on the fourth I had another boot fail message. I love the K but honestly my Motif ES8 has never failed to be reliable for over ten years. I would have said the same about the K being reliable up until a month ago but now... I'm just glad I don't depend on it for anything mission critical.

About the only thing I can think of is to just load the standard preload. Don't load any 3rd party sample libs for the time being.

Sorry to read about the pain. All of my older boards were obviously lower tech which always booted up.

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:25 am

With issues like this, your nearest Korg authorised service centre should always be your first point of contact, especially if your instrument is still under warranty. If it's something you'd prefer to remedy yourself, the following may be of use, however please keep in mind that this is based purely on supposition and is in no way authoritative or necessarily correct!

By my understanding, there are essentially two computers in the Kronos - an Intel Linux-based machine that is responsible for audio processing, and an embedded PSoC system that is responsible for control, the GUI, USB communication etc. The two boot independently of one another - the "Kronos" screen that's displayed upon powering on is displayed by the PSoC system.

Once the Linux system has booted, the OS for the PSoC system (including the GUI) is loaded from the SSD and transmitted to the PSoC via USB. If any of these steps fail, the PSoC will display a "Boot failed" message. However this does not strictly mean that the Linux OS has failed to boot it may also indicate that the PSoC has been unable to establish communication with the Intel system.

Based on this, there's a few things that can cause the boot process to fail:

* Corrupted filesystem or SSD
* Bad cable connection from the mainboard to the PSoC subsystem
* Faulty or improperly seated RAM
* Faulty mainboard or PSoC sub-system

Given you've already tried reseating many of the connections, I would try booting from the restore DVDs to see if that boots consistently and reliably. Booting from these DVDs bypasses the SSD and will confirm that the mainboard and PSoC are functioning correctly. If this boots reliably and consistently, it wouldn't hurt to try doing a restore from the DVDs.

Beyond that, you can try testing the RAM in another computer, and similarly, try testing the SSD in a SATA caddy or similar.[/list]

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:58 pm

another possible external cause. The Kronos seems to demand consistent power.

If you are using a power strip, suggest you unplug your Kronos from that and go direct to the wall outlet.

There are numerous inexpensive power strips so its a possible cause to test /eliminate .

communitybfc · Post by **communitybfc** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:56 pm

I can try that a Greg but I've been using my power strip since day 1. Seems like an easy elimination test though. Thanks for your thoughts.

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:44 am

If it was a RAM problem, wouldn't removing the RAM completely and then testing for awhile reveal if that was the problem? Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

kday · Post by **kday** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:23 am

If your unit failed to boot, it may be an SSD hard drive issue.

Try Re-formatting your hard drive, first save all your programs, then reformat the hard drive. then cut it back on.

You may have to keep powering until it boots one more time, then when it finally boots up, do a hard drive reformat and that should erase the bad errors if the hard drive haven't been permanently damaged.

Make sure the unit is not being overheated in a hot tight setting in an everyday situation.

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:27 pm

SeedyLee wrote:With issues like this, your nearest Korg authorised service centre should always be your first point of contact, especially if your instrument is still under warranty. If it's something you'd prefer to remedy yourself, the following may be of use, however please keep in mind that this is based purely on supposition and is in no way authoritative or necessarily correct!

By my understanding, there are essentially two computers in the Kronos - an Intel Linux-based machine that is responsible for audio processing, and an embedded PSoC system that is responsible for control, the GUI, USB communication etc. The two boot independently of one another - the "Kronos" screen that's displayed upon powering on is displayed by the PSoC system.

Once the Linux system has booted, the OS for the PSoC system (including the GUI) is loaded from the SSD and transmitted to the PSoC via USB. If any of these steps fail, the PSoC will display a "Boot failed" message. However this does not strictly mean that the Linux OS has failed to boot it may also indicate that the PSoC has been unable to establish communication with the Intel system.

Based on this, there's a few things that can cause the boot process to fail:

* Corrupted filesystem or SSD
* Bad cable connection from the mainboard to the PSoC subsystem
* Faulty or improperly seated RAM
* Faulty mainboard or PSoC sub-system

Given you've already tried reseating many of the connections, I would try booting from the restore DVDs to see if that boots consistently and reliably. Booting from these DVDs bypasses the SSD and will confirm that the mainboard and PSoC are functioning correctly. If this boots reliably and consistently, it wouldn't hurt to try doing a restore from the DVDs.

Beyond that, you can try testing the RAM in another computer, and similarly, try testing the SSD in a SATA caddy or similar.[/list]

+1

My first guess is the SSD is corrupted. SeedyLee's suggestions sound sound to me.

communitybfc · Post by **communitybfc** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:36 am

I'll try to address everyone who has been so helpful with their suggestions:
To Steven Kay: I'm not sure what I would test the ram in to determine if that's the problem since I assume it would need to be a compatible source. Would the unit even boot without ram if what you mean is to test the K with no ram installed?

To SeedyLee and kday: Since I only have an external HD, I found my DVDs and moved the disc 1 files to the HD. The HD was spinning but none of the prompts that the manual said to expect came up. As happened when I opened the K up and checked ram and cables, the K started several times in a row with the HD attached which again made me think that the problem was temporarily solved. After 5 or 6 times of booting it went back again to boot fail and hasn't booted correctly since.

Maybe the trick would be to keep turning it on until it boots again, save everything, then reformat the drive. Since I don't know if or when that may happen I'll probably end up having it serviced. I was wise enough to save everything when I was able to so I should be okay there.

What I find really annoying though is writng Korg several times and having no one respond. Ugh! So grateful for forum.

pedro5 · Post by **pedro5** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:31 am

Just a quick,short note....

You need to use an external DVD/CD player for the installation......as it's what the Kronos expects to find.

There is a compatible list somewhere on the forum...not all models work,apparently.

Make sure this will work before formatting the internal ssd and also download the authorising code from Korg.

Usually Korg Support can offer helpful advice...try again.

Best Wishes.

pedro5 · Post by **pedro5** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:10 pm

Some additional thoughts.... following a quick read of previous,older posts from other members.
Try swapping the SATA port,for the ssd....and/or renew the cable....no need to buy a top notch type,there are inexpensive ones that will work just fine.
(I'm not offering any sort of guarantee it'll cure things,though...

).

As a side note,someone did manage to use an usb device instead of a dvd drive,but it must be a complete bootable "clone" of the original dvds….not a basic copy.
Going down that route may present additional problems at this stage and perhaps best avoided.

Using a dvd player(known to work with a Kronos) would also provide information as to whether your instrument can boot properly and reliably with original media etc.
Then,depending on the results,further progressive tests can be made.

Question,please...
During multi-booting tests...do you do these repeatedly in succession...or do you play the instrument for a while first,then re-boot ?

Best Wishes.

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