Most important (virtual) analogue sounds to you?

[Kevin Nolan]

Given that various members (and probably other 3rd parties and perhaps Korg) are contemplating delivering new sound sets and vintage synth sample sets, I thought it'd worthwhile starting a thread where members actually indicate what virtual analogue sounds are important to you, or which you'd like to see available.

By this I mean for you to indicate the genre you're into, and the types of sound you want (bass, lead, pad,..) and as many details on those you can think of, and perhaps which of Kronos' VA engines is most important to you, or whether you don't rate them and would like HD engine analogue synth sets (like the triton vintage expansion card).


For me, i'd love to see:

1. A whacky, weird and wonderful set of LFO / Modulation sounds with loads of realtime control for the MS20ex programmed by a modular synth expert.

2. A Korg released set of AL-1 sounds without Karma and Step Sequeners, that do homage to the great standards of the past like the minimoog, P5, OBXA and CS80...



Kevin.

[RKfan]

Oooh big question...

I would like to have copies of most synth patches used by John Foxx (Underpass, He's a liquid - some of the patches he used on Metamatic are really bright and metallic - can the Kronos even do this stuff), Gary Numan (so 30 years worth but early days till I Assassin plus stuff he did on his last album), Ultravox, Yazoo (esp You and me both), Depeche Mode (not the Emulator stuff since needs the samples), Japan.... Kid of the 80's but some great sounds in there....

[Kevin Nolan]

No takers beyond RKfan?

(interesting choices by the way - all strong and characterful synth sounds)


Let me put it another way - would you like to see Virtual Analogue or Vintage Analogue sound sets available for Kronos?

[SanderXpander]

If there would be anything in that area coming from Korg, I would hope for more filter types, or some sample-mangling VA type stuff like V-Synth. Other than that, I'm good.

[Bald Eagle]

Metal leads and complex evolving pads. Programs used by Jens Johansson, Derek Sherinian, Jordan Rudess.

[Kevin Nolan]

Interesting over all though - with a lower than average response to this thread than other threads - it suggests (broadly) that there's no particular desire for Analogue sound sets among Kronos users.


That would suggest that those thinking about designing such sound sets that they needn't bother, the interest will be low (or if they do release such sound sets charge a lot for them because it'll be a niche market only even within the community of Kronos owners).

[QuiRobinez]

Interesting over all though - with a lower than average response to this thread than other threads - it suggests (broadly) that there's no particular desire for Analogue sound sets among Kronos users.


That would suggest that those thinking about designing such sound sets that they needn't bother, the interest will be low (or if they do release such sound sets charge a lot for them because it'll be a niche market only even within the community of Kronos owners).

to be honest i think you are right, vrtual analogue presets aren't that popular unless you do recreations of signature sounds.

my experience until now is that the most popular areas at the moment are:
- 80ies patches
- Patches for electronical music (like ambient and styles like enigma and kitaro)
- Modern patches for current music
- And more and more i get requests for dance and trance sounds. Now these kind of sounds are mostly Virtual Analog, but that's an entirely different area then the moog type of leads for instance.

now if you look at it this way then the technique of how to create those patches doesn't really matter. It's more the style where you create the patch for which is important in my opinion.

I've tried a similar thing once where i started a thread to discuss experimental MS20 patch panel setups as a learning experience. It was quite refreshing to see that only one person gave a reaction that this was interesting enough. So for me that was a confirmation that these kind of things are not worth to put some extra effort in.

And that's a good thing, the kronos has so many possibilities that it's interesting to know what people want and don't want since we all have limited time

[cynkh]

I'd love a nice collection of AL-1 VA sounds (programs) set up like Wavestation patches: lots of pads and motion and things. I'd also love to hear the AL-1 do its impression of some Nord Lead, JP-8000, Supernova and Virus patches- any genre will do (though I love pads and basses the most).

[Kevin Nolan]

Hmmm... (as in - you've prodded thought, not that I disagree with you).

The thought you've prodded is this - Korg went to extraordinary effort to deliver synth engines of staggering quality. The MS20EX really does sound like the original.

So the question is: need they have bothered? Do people really not care?

This thread has the danger of becoming sloppy in argument because my question is not directly a follow on from your point (where you suggest that what's important is the quality of the sound, not where it came from; and that doesn't imply that people don't care about the source).


But overall, this thread (admittedly only a day old) points to lack-luster interest in expert programs for the like of AL-1, PolysixEX and MS20-EX and indeed there is an incredibly low take up of programming of thise synth engines by Kronos owners of those engines and of MOD-7 and STR-1 to boot.


This links to ed_f's thread on the lack of user contributions.


Overall, can we see a trend? Can we, by now say that the typical Kronos owner does not program its synth engines, is not particularly enamored by the synth engines and instead more interested in the Kronos's samples, sample packages and pianos in particular?

Certainly that sort of trend emerged for OASYS (at least in terms of programming the synth engines).

Perhaps this is worth a poll? It would help Korg and professional programmers (such as your good self) understand the typical workstation owner as distinct from synth owners where surely if you buy a Minimoog or MS20mini, you're buying it to tweak and program it.

And here's another question, suppose Korg were to release a workstation like Kronos, with the same depth and capability, but instead of releasing synth-engines, released banks of unmovable programs such as:

Oberheim OBXA Bank
MiniMoog Bank
Jupiter Bank
CS80 Bank

- like Arturia Origin

Would that be preferable, more useful? I'm just shooting the breeze here by the way!!

[jimknopf]

Classical analog sounds and their translation to VAs are in fact anything but outdated. They are just used in other genres than Techno derived dance styles.

70s + 80s analog sounds still provide the basics for anything r&b/funk/hiphop (you can easily hear Stevie Wonder signature sounds in all of these styles for example), progrock and rock, up to metal. They are just slightly updated/changed for the purpose and context.

So they are used
a) massively for all kinds of cover band styles in original form
b) for many modern style aside from techno-derivatives, in orginal and changed form

Kevin, I guess the answers are missing because the the field is so vast, not because no one is interested. I alone know a dozen people who would appreciate to get more of the well known synth sounds on their Kronos or other gear and aren't really satisfied with the present presets (and I mean all available including addons packages).

As I said in another thread, the best approach is the Arturia Origin "synth heroes" approach from my view:
- rebuild famous synth sounds of well known artist across several decades
- choose well known, recognizeable songs from their repertoire for your reprogramming

Just have a look at the Arturia site (who do that exactly because this stuff is sought after by most keyboarders aside from the dance scene), and you will see a pattern you can build on.

Taste varies, and to me personally(!) many popular dance sounds - first of all this really hard to bear detuned saw lead kitsch we have had to tolerate for more than a decade now - belong to the most ugly sounds ever made for mankind: they have lowest vanity fair level to me.

I'm not talking of all kinds of modern electronica here, even dubstep (apart from the meanhwile beaten to death wobble sounds horse) can offer interesting sounds and ideas.

[cynkh]

Well, how about this for thought: I've programmed close to 60 patches (though admittedly not all super-professional sounding) each trying to highlight a little bit of one sound engine or another or the control surface or effects or some combination/amalgam of all of these (mostly EXi patches, so far with just a couple of wave sequences). I will post a raw bank of these EXi patches for folks to grab and sculpt into something a bit more professional.

Perhaps if we all proffer what we've done and create variations on others' original ideas and works (all open source/creative commons/public domain- we need to agree on that first and foremost ) we can generate several banks of EXi programs from which to cultivate or curate the professional sound set that each of us has been thinking of...

Any takers?

Hmmm... (as in - you've prodded thought, not that I disagree with you).

The thought you've prodded is this - Korg went to extraordinary effort to deliver synth engines of staggering quality. The MS20EX really does sound like the original.

So the question is: need they have bothered? Do people really not care?

This thread has the danger of becoming sloppy in argument because my question is not directly a follow on from your point (where you suggest that what's important is the quality of the sound, not where it came from; and that doesn't imply that people don't care about the source).


But overall, this thread (admittedly only a day old) points to lack-luster interest in expert programs for the like of AL-1, PolysixEX and MS20-EX and indeed there is an incredibly low take up of programming of thise synth engines by Kronos owners of those engines and of MOD-7 and STR-1 to boot.


This links to ed_f's thread on the lack of user contributions.


Overall, can we see a trend? Can we, by now say that the typical Kronos owner does not program its synth engines, is not particularly enamored by the synth engines and instead more interested in the Kronos's samples, sample packages and pianos in particular?

Certainly that sort of trend emerged for OASYS (at least in terms of programming the synth engines).

Perhaps this is worth a poll? It would help Korg and professional programmers (such as your good self) understand the typical workstation owner as distinct from synth owners where surely if you buy a Minimoog or MS20mini, you're buying it to tweak and program it.

And here's another question, suppose Korg were to release a workstation like Kronos, with the same depth and capability, but instead of releasing synth-engines, released banks of unmovable programs such as:

Oberheim OBXA Bank
MiniMoog Bank
Jupiter Bank
CS80 Bank

- like Arturia Origin

Would that be preferable, more useful? I'm just shooting the breeze here by the way!!

[geoelectro]

In my case I love the synth engines in the Kronos. However, coming from having owned many analogs of the day, and spent years with softsynths, I'm inclined to make my own patches as needed.

It's hard to say now, what I might want/need in the future. When that time comes, I meet the need.

Omnisphere has a wonderful analog modelling section that I intend to sample at some point. It's just that the need hasn't come up just yet.

Perhaps because of the shear number of included sounds plus the ease of rolling your own, it reduces the need to buy from outside sources.

Geo

[SanderXpander]

This seems almost specifically aimed at my new project. I'm not bothered if not many people want this soundset. I'm not expecting to make big bucks from it. I want to get good quality samples of the actual analog behemoths around me and make some pro quality patches from it. This is in large part for private use, I just hope to make a little money back if we deliver something worthwhile. While you may not have had many reactions on this thread, I already had a couple of people in my thread that said they would be interested. I'm not going to stalk them about buying it either. I'm just not really worried about the interest in our work. There will be some, and it won't be staggering. Fine.

We started with the OBX and it's been promising so far! Once we passed some initial hurdles we got it pretty streamlined. We got the raw saw wave and a couple of settings of the pulse (which is variable). Now we'll have to program some good patches but I can already say it sounds killer especially in the lower register, and while HD1's filter doesn't sound like the Oberheim, it's pretty good indeed. In my humble opinion, the samples we put in are definitely a few steps above the material you get in the ROM.

[cynkh]

This is a fantastic recommendation, also! I find myself getting inspired to create programs based on what I've heard in a track (or even another program/combi- Glass Runner is a perfect example of what I consider an immensely inspiring combi). The sound that Andrew Farriss got out of his Roland SH-7 (I believe that was the keyboard he used anyway) on the first 2 INXS albums is still something that inspires me to this day. Also, a fantastic "acid" sound from Bypass Unit's "On a Trance-Mission" album is one I've been trying to re-create with limited success (I believe the track is called "Go Closer").

When I purchased my Alesis Micron I noticed that there were quite a number of patches dedicated to re-creating '70's and '80's synth sounds from "Switched On..." to The Cars to Blondie to JMJ (and even some 303 sounds thrown in for good measure). I'm sure we can get something like that going with the Kronos.

Keep the suggestions coming! Cheers!

Classical analog sounds and their translation to VAs are in fact anything but outdated. They are just used in other genres than Techno derived dance styles.

70s + 80s analog sounds still provide the basics for anything r&b/funk/hiphop (you can easily hear Stevie Wonder signature sounds in all of these styles for example), progrock and rock, up to metal. They are just slightly updated/changed for the purpose and context.

So they are used
a) massively for all kinds of cover band styles in original form
b) for many modern style aside from techno-derivatives, in orginal and changed form

Kevin, I guess the answers are missing because the the field is so vast, not because no one is interested. I alone know a dozen people who would appreciate to get more of the well known synth sounds on their Kronos or other gear and aren't really satisfied with the present presets (and I mean all available including addons packages).

As I said in another thread, the best approach is the Arturia Origin "synth heroes" approach from my view:
- rebuild famous synth sounds of well known artist across several decades
- choose well known, recognizeable songs from their repertoire for your reprogramming

Just have a look at the Arturia site (who do that exactly because this stuff is sought after by most keyboarders aside from the dance scene), and you will see a pattern you can build on.

Taste varies, and to me personally(!) many popular dance sounds - first of all this really hard to bear detuned saw lead kitsch we have had to tolerate for more than a decade now - belong to the most ugly sounds ever made for mankind: they have lowest vanity fair level to me.

I'm not talking of all kinds of modern electronica here, even dubstep (apart from the meanhwile beaten to death wobble sounds horse) can offer interesting sounds and ideas.

[QuiRobinez]

And here's another question, suppose Korg were to release a workstation like Kronos, with the same depth and capability, but instead of releasing synth-engines, released banks of unmovable programs such as:

Oberheim OBXA Bank
MiniMoog Bank
Jupiter Bank
CS80 Bank

- like Arturia Origin

Would that be preferable, more useful? I'm just shooting the breeze here by the way!!

good point kevin, i don't think it's preferable since you buy a 'one trick' workstation in that where you can't expand it with little tweaks of your own.

By the way, i'm not saying that i'm right, but in my experience most musicians buy a workstation to play with the sounds instead of exploring the synth possibilities and treat it as a synthesizer.

I think it's important to have a great set of presets available in a workstation or synth to convince the buyer that this is the synth they want. I should give a good impression about the possibilities.

Access for instance is doing this right, although they have way to much presets for their TI synth, it gives directly an impression about what you can achieve with the synth. Now when you look at John Bowens Solaris then you see the opposite, there is a lack of presets for that synth so only people that know how to program synths can understand how great that synth actually is.

Also don't forget that for programming the Korg Kronos you need a lot more experience then for programming a 'simple' substractive synth. Especially programming the MOD7 and the STR1 are quite difficult engines to program. But this is also a big advantage of the Kronos. The fact that you can mix several synth engines gives you sound possibilities that are hard to find on other synths. But to do this you need to spent a lot of time learning how to program these engines and not everyone is into that.

It's a good discussion and probably is worth a poll.

But again, maybe i'm totally wrong on my view on this matter